The Canadian Mafia

[Tracker]

 

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

All of those coaches have losing records. 

But they were the head coaches, so your logic is flawed. 

[GCn20]

Supply/demand. I completely agree that time is running out on these guys if we don't win a cup. I personally don't want a management/coaching team that can't deliver a cup after 5 years. However, that being said a clear and obvious upgrade has to be available. Change for the sake of change is stupid.

[Blueandgold]

The big issue is that our receiving core has been an issue throughout Walters/O’Shea’s tenure and it still is. I like Lawler, but Darvin isn’t a number one receiver and Whitehead isn’t an every down receiver. 

The fact that we have guys like Bailey (who looked like a perfect fit for our O in the BB) and Peterman sitting on the bench makes our receiving cores poor play and O’Shea’s reluctance to shake things up even more frustrating. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Blueandgold

[sweep the leg]

15 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If I follow your logic, the Als would have kept Sherman and the Argos should keep Chamblin and the Lions should keep their head coach as well.

Those coaches fit the "cardboard box" part of the analogy, so there's no real threat of being worse off.

[Mark F]

There are examples of "continuity" eventually working, and there are examples of change working immediately.

Neither is better.

So it's not a good point of argument in favour of keeping or firing a coach.

There are  many things that factor into winning a team sport.

 Plain luck being one of the biggest. I think Belichick, aside from being a great coach, is really lucky.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Mark F

[ddanger]

17 hours ago, Bomber_fanaddict said:

Which vet are you referring to this year? If it was Matthews you would have been hard pressed to find anyone at the time who though that was a bad decision. And instead of keeping him around they let him go unlike the early years.

Hecht....although I think the DBs coverage was also questionable and I do recall seeing Jeff going after Sayles for a blown coverage

[ddanger]

20 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

The big issue is that our receiving core has been an issue throughout Walters/O’Shea’s tenure and it still is. I like Lawler, but Darvin isn’t a number one receiver and Whitehead isn’t an every down receiver. 

The fact that we have guys like Bailey (who looked like a perfect fit for our O in the BB) and Peterman sitting on the bench makes our receiving cores poor play and O’Shea’s reluctance to shake things up even more frustrating. 

I'm expecting some changes this week, DB's and receivers. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

41 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Anybody starting a " week of " thread for the Saskatchewan game ?....  I got a post for it but I ain't starting it cause I don't have the seniority 😜

Just do it- I would have do in a few days ago... but I don't want to jinx anything.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

49 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Not knowing who the new HC would be is no reason to keep the current HC.

It is a very good reason to keep the current HC. Even at the very least have an interim HC- you should at the absolutely minimum have that in place before canning the current HC. 

[17to85]

32 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If the criteria you use to assess a coaching staff is regular season wins, then why agitate to fire the assistant coaches, yet keep O'Shea? Why are there playoffs at all? If the point is not to win the Cup, what is the goal?

You make the playoffs based on the regular season, the difference between coordinators and the head coach is that when the playcalling suffers it can be attributed more to the coordinators who have dominion over that sort of thing. The role of the head coach in that regard is to make the big picture judgment of his his staff is performing. Oshea is patient but it isn't limitless patience.

[B-F-F-C]

39 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If I follow your logic, the Als would have kept Sherman and the Argos should keep Chamblin and the Lions should keep their head coach as well.

There are instances where your coach is so awful and the team is playing so poorly.  The decision is obvious and you make it regardless of who's available.  In Sherman's case subtraction immediately improved the team. Hell the Als probably would have improved even if they played without a coach.    I can see Claybrooks get another year while Chamblin was in a losing situation with his two QB's.  Is he to blame for that?  Should he be the fall guy?  I guess we'll see in a couple of months.

[NorthernSkunk]

After I read tons of this discussion.... to me it sounds like we need one of the best QB's in the league come play offs.  The best QB's save their coaches ass AND win grey cups (?)

[JuranBoldenRules]

51 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If I follow your logic, the Als would have kept Sherman and the Argos should keep Chamblin and the Lions should keep their head coach as well.

No because they aren’t a house, there’s no foundation there.

[17to85]

10 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

After I read tons of this discussion.... to me it sounds like we need one of the best QB's in the league come play offs.  The best QB's save their coaches ass AND win grey cups (?)

who was the last team to win a Grey Cup with a sub par quarterback?

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

I remember winning there last year, when we were told by everyone that MOS couldn't win a playoff game. Nichols couldn't win a playoff game. 

You sure he'd have won if the Riders didn't lose their starting QB the week before and had to use Brandon Bridge? Anyway, we aren't playing that team this week. We're playing a team that's got it's starting QB and is much better at home than they are on the road.

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I mean it kind of is. 

Give me your house and I'll give you another place to live, could be a mansion or a cardboard box, but no reason not to give me your house.

That's a horrible comparison that has nothing to do with our coaching situation. Most people sell their houses before they buy a new one because they want/need to get rid of the old one before they can move forward. Very few people decide to sell only after they've found a new home. They don't even start looking until they've decided it's time to move in the first place.

The first question is do we want to keep MOS or move on? If the answer is move on, then you don't re-sign him and you start looking for his replacement.

MOS will want a 3 year contract. If we don't win a playoff game this year, do you want MOS for 3 more years? The management SMS means we won't be able to replace him once we've signed him.

There are no guarantees that whoever we replace MOS with will be better than him or worse or about the same. The only guarantee is that he will be different.

[JCon]

9 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

You sure he'd have won if the Riders didn't lose their starting QB the week before and had to use Brandon Bridge? Anyway, we aren't playing that team this week. We're playing a team that's got it's starting QB and is much better at home than they are on the road.

Oh, yeah, sure, Collaros is awesome. If he were a Bomber, you would hate him.

[NorthernSkunk]

26 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

who was the last team to win a Grey Cup with a sub par quarterback?

Exactly...... so why haven't the Bombers hired one of the best in the last 29 years.... I mean when one does come available do they even compete to hire them ?.... . 

[TBURGESS]

18 minutes ago, JCon said:

Oh, yeah, sure, Collaros is awesome. If he were a Bomber, you would hate him.

No, Collaros isn't awesome, but he's way better than Bridge. Yes, I'd hate him if he was a Bomber, mostly because he can't stay healthy.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

You sure he'd have won if the Riders didn't lose their starting QB the week before and had to use Brandon Bridge? Anyway, we aren't playing that team this week. We're playing a team that's got it's starting QB and is much better at home than they are on the road.

That's a horrible comparison that has nothing to do with our coaching situation. Most people sell their houses before they buy a new one because they want/need to get rid of the old one before they can move forward. Very few people decide to sell only after they've found a new home. They don't even start looking until they've decided it's time to move in the first place.

The first question is do we want to keep MOS or move on? If the answer is move on, then you don't re-sign him and you start looking for his replacement.

MOS will want a 3 year contract. If we don't win a playoff game this year, do you want MOS for 3 more years? The management SMS means we won't be able to replace him once we've signed him.

There are no guarantees that whoever we replace MOS with will be better than him or worse or about the same. The only guarantee is that he will be different.

Sure but do people sell their house with no idea of what the market where they want to live is?  And if they know the market is not favorable to them do they sell their house anyway?

There’s no point in firing someone who is doing pretty well if the market to replace him is not favorable.  It’s different if there are huge locker room and control issues like there were with Berry or Kelly or Burke.  In 08 for the last half of the season Glenn and Dinwiddie were in charge of game planning and play calling.  It was an embarrassing mess.  Nobody bought into Burke and there was no vision, no path to even mediocrity.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Exactly...... so why haven't the Bombers hired one of the best in the last 29 years.... I mean when one does come available do they even compete to hire them ?.... . 

You mean like spending yourself into problems like the BC Lions did? 

No the way to do it in the CFL is develop your own QB or get lucky with a backup developing after you get them. Generally. 

Bombers are on their way anyhow I believe. Just need to get some coordinators who are a little better in game. 

[Bigblue204]

14 hours ago, Mark H. said:

A grey cup would solve the attendance problem - full stop.  The average Winnipegger just assumes the Bombers are losing - as usual.

Yes, that would explain why attendance is down league wide....

[Bigblue204]

3 hours ago, Tracker said:

And keeping this lot hasn't in six years, either. While O'Shea was head coach, During his time, several other clubs have resurrected their fortunes, most recently the Riders and the Alouettes- both with rookie coaches. 

Neither one of those teams have won as much Oshea has.

[TBURGESS]

25 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Sure but do people sell their house with no idea of what the market where they want to live is?  And if they know the market is not favorable to them do they sell their house anyway?

There’s no point in firing someone who is doing pretty well if the market to replace him is not favorable.  It’s different if there are huge locker room and control issues like there were with Berry or Kelly or Burke.  In 08 for the last half of the season Glenn and Dinwiddie were in charge of game planning and play calling.  It was an embarrassing mess.  Nobody bought into Burke and there was no vision, no path to even mediocrity.

This isn't about selling houses, but cuz you asked. Sure, sometimes folks find out they can't afford what they want or that their current house isn't going to net them what they want and decide not to sell. That doesn't change the fact that they no longer want to be in their current house.

There is a point in firing someone or not giving that person 3 more years who is just 'doing pretty well'. The point being that 'doing pretty well' shouldn't be good enough any more. It was when we first hired MOS because pretty well was better than stinking out the joint. Maybe you're OK with mediocrity or are scared to try something new when we have a top 4 team. That's fine as long as you don't complain about the results we get.

The idea that the only thing that can happen if we fire MOS is getting worse is flawed. Folks who want consistency bring up stupid hires like Burke or Kelly and ignore that we could also make a good hire...  A guy who takes us to the next level. Folks want to talk about specifics right now to get the conversation off of MOS's post season failure and on to 'that guy wouldn't be any better' because there is no proof that anyone would be better or worse. There is also no proof that keeping MOS will lead to better results.

Khari was given Montreal's HC job late and has turned the team around in a single year. Dickenson, another late HC 'choice' has the Riders tied for 1st place. Neither of them were top choices for HC's. Just right place at the right time. Both are examples of change being good for their respective teams and the Riders are a good example of a good team not getting worse by hiring a new HC. Rick Campbell in Ottawa is an example of consistency not always equalling good results.

 

[Bigblue204]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

who was the last team to win a Grey Cup with a sub par quarterback?

Riders in 07. CGY in 01. I honestly don't remember much about the 90's due to my age. But I believe the Bombers won there last GC with a guy who correctly wore the "game Manager" title.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Bigblue204

[17to85]

21 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Riders in 07. CGY in 01. I honestly don't remember much about the 90's due to my age. But I believe the Bombers won there last GC with a guy who correctly wore the "game Manager" title.

And 07 was the year Joseph was MOP so he played well that season. But yeah going way way back to 01...