Osh is a Legend

[DR. CFL]

29 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Football will never be close to that again. PI in 1990, would be an idictable offence today. The way they coached back then would be too. 

The program is the teams strength and weakness. In order to take the next step, the program has to evolve and grow. Right now, it hasnt changed at all since mos took over.

Do players sign here because of mos? Maybe a secondary factor. Players sign here because its a good team, with good support, and they pay good money. A player coach is a fringe benefit to most guys. 

The point about 1990 was the level of success...VS the current level of success...

[17to85]

The only way I turn on O'Shea is if he doesn't make a chance at OC in the offseason. 

Lapo is the single biggest thing holding this team back at this point. Yes I know a lot of people are on Streveler, but come on guys, he's had lots of drops and a bullshit offensive game plan like Lapo always does. The man got fired when he had Khari Jones, Milt Stegall, Charles Roberts and Mike Sellers to build an offense around for gods sake. 

What is our game plan now? Hope that Harris and Streveler can break multiple tackles and make multiple people miss on any given play? It's not a good plan. The guy has always been awful for this team. The Riders and Ticats the week before knew exactly what plays were coming. 

[Eternal optimist]

1 hour ago, DR. CFL said:

Making the playoffs doesn’t necessarily make you a contender.  The playoff format is about economics....if it was about contenders it would be top 2 in each division.

That logic is flawed too though, if the Grey Cup was between the winners of the East/West, you could end up with a single lopsided division that has the two best teams (record wise) in the league. This scenario happened in 2016, oddly enough the two division winners (Calgary and Ottawa respectively) played in the Grey Cup, but every team in the West (besides the Riders lol) finished with a better record than Ottawa.

[Deiter Fan]

4 hours ago, Goalie said:

Players love him bro.. .. Players sign here cuz of OSH

As a student some of my favourite teachers were the ones that asked the least of me...that provided the least amount of pressure to excel and achieve...who cut me the most amount of slack.

The fact he is so universally liked may be a good indicator of just how little he demands from his players. 

 

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, DR. CFL said:

The point about 1990 was the level of success...VS the current level of success...

The point was its 2019 not 1990 and that Mos way of coaching is how its done now. And that the cause of our success back then isnt repeatable and wont be again. 

[Old Bomber Fan]

To change the discussion slightly regarding Streveler I do agree and have always stated Lapo is not what the Bombers need to be successful. It looks like many are now agreeing. However the point I would like to bring up is the development of our QBs. Last game was perhaps the second example in as many games were out development of QBs stood out to me. In he Hamilton game the games was over after 3 quarters pint set and match. Why then did they not put on McGuire to give him some meaningful reps. Similarly this past game we were done by our last two possession. Why then didn’t they put in McGuire to give him more game reps. Two examples of when they could give a back up exposure and two examples of when they failed. The same can be said in the banjo bowl...we were dominating and a prime time in the 4th to give mcguire a shot but didn’t. And I’m guessing if you look back over some of our other games there would have been opportunities that were lost. Yet they expect Streveler to step in and be as successful as a starter. Similarly should Streveler go down in comes McGuire with no reps period in real time!

This my friends is no way to develop QBs or any other position for that matter. When given the opportunity to have a player experience live fire should you not do it? Again within reason.

Thisvisvwhat I have witnessed since Lapo has been involved with the Bombers, when first an OC, next as a HC and again this time around. Do I blame Lapo for this....absolutely. Do I blame MOS absolutely again. This is why we never develop QBs, this is why we are in trouble when our starter goes down, and this is why we will not get close to the grey cup this year. Sad a frustrating!

[Floyd]

1 minute ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

To change the discussion slightly regarding Streveler I do agree and have always stated Lapo is not what the Bombers need to be successful. It looks like many are now agreeing. However the point I would like to bring up is the development of our QBs. Last game was perhaps the second example in as many games were out development of QBs stood out to me. In he Hamilton game the games was over after 3 quarters pint set and match. Why then did they not put on McGuire to give him some meaningful reps. Similarly this past game we were done by our last two possession. Why then didn’t they put in McGuire to give him more game reps. Two examples of when they could give a back up exposure and two examples of when they failed. The same can be said in the banjo bowl...we were dominating and a prime time in the 4th to give mcguire a shot but didn’t. And I’m guessing if you look back over some of our other games there would have been opportunities that were lost. Yet they expect Streveler to step in and be as successful as a starter. Similarly should Streveler go down in comes McGuire with no reps period in real time!

This my friends is no way to develop QBs or any other position for that matter. When given the opportunity to have a player experience live fire should you not do it? Again within reason.

Thisvisvwhat I have witnessed since Lapo has been involved with the Bombers, when first an OC, next as a HC and again this time around. Do I blame Lapo for this....absolutely. Do I blame MOS absolutely again. This is why we never develop QBs, this is why we are in trouble when our starter goes down, and this is why we will not get close to the grey cup this year. Sad a frustrating!

Man you sound more and more like a troll.  I've read this somewhere before.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

Man you sound more and more like a troll.  I've read this somewhere before.

Doesn't sound like a troll to me. Just a fan asking a question. Anyway, to specifically answer Old Bomber Fan's question, I think Mike O'Shea would say that Streveler gave them the best chance to win. Just like he would say the same thing if Nichols was playing... that Matt would give them the best chance to win. That in O'Shea's mind the game was not over. To admit that by playing MacGuire would mean admitting defeat. That's why a qb switch was never made. Yeah, yeah, I know...

Edited October 8, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[blueandgoldguy]

On 2019-10-06 at 10:21 PM, Brandon said:

Who they going to get?  Franklin is crap,  Jennings is crap,   Collaros is crap,   Masoli *may* be the only available option and who knows how he will be after injury. 

Lapo is likely gone.  Hire Dinwiddie who is regarded as an up-and-comer for several year as the OC.  He has been coaching now for 7 years, 5 of those with one of the best in Dickenson.  We hired an unproven special teams coach to be head coach here 6 years ago.  Now it's time for some fresh blood at the OC position.

Sign Arbuckle as he already has a repoire with Dinwiddie and has displayed far more potential than Streveler up to this point.  Sign Strev as well, as based on his performance up to this point, he will not command much on the open market (of course, this may change in the final 3 reg. season games and playoffs). 

Nichols can be shown the door.  His performance has been wanting for the most part the past 2 years.  When the running game is stopped he does not have the ability to lead this team to victory.  We have seen this time and time again from him against the good teams ie. earlier this year in Hamilton, Last year's final against Calgary.  Add in his shoulder injury and the likelihood he will decline further is that much greater in 2020.  It's time to move on.

[J5V]

7 hours ago, 17to85 said:

The only way I turn on O'Shea is if he doesn't make a chance at OC in the offseason. 

He's had many years to make the change. Why now are you willing to turn on him?

[J5V]

4 hours ago, blueandgoldguy said:

Lapo is likely gone.

It has been reported that Lapo has very upset at not being allowed the Sask interview. Very upset. He felt it was within his contract to be interviewed for other opportunities. What did we expect from a disgruntled employee?

[Mr Dee]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

It has been reported that Lapo has very upset at not being allowed the Sask interview. Very upset. He felt it was within his contract to be interviewed for other opportunities. What did we expect from a disgruntled employee?

Whoa there. Are you insinuating that he is consciously calling the games he is because of being disgruntled?

While I don’t stand behind OC when it comes to play calling, I don’t agree with your insinuation. That would be noticed and his future in the game would be in jeopardy. The man has integrity, he’s just a bit out of his element, dated, and mired in his own thinking. For all his understanding of the game, he lacks the ability to actually “see” the game.

[17to85]

4 hours ago, J5V said:

It has been reported that Lapo has very upset at not being allowed the Sask interview. Very upse

reported by rider fans

[M.Silverback]

9 hours ago, blueandgoldguy said:

Lapo is likely gone.  Hire Dinwiddie who is regarded as an up-and-comer for several year as the OC.  

Sign Arbuckle as he already has a repoire with Dinwiddie and has displayed far more potential than Streveler up to this point.  Sign Strev as well, as based on his performance up to this point, he will not command much on the open market (of course, this may change in the final 3 reg. season games and playoffs). 

Nichols can be shown the door. 

I'm with all of these decisions. Assuming we don't go on some unexpected playoff run and win the Grey Cup (could happen, right?), Walters has to put on his GM hat this off season regarding O'Shea. No more linked at the hips, buddy-buddy, we're in this together Canadian mafia thing. He needs to sit Osh down and say I as GM am firing Lapo and Hall, and  I as GM are replacing them. You (head coach) have this season to turn things around or you too will be fired. I think Walters has been good enough at his job to at least earn the right to hire one more head coach. He's not flawless, but, for the most part he's acquired, drafted and retained above average players. The coaching staff has not been good enough. Whether it's the coordinators, head coach, combination, they need to be better. 

[17to85]

4 hours ago, J5V said:

He's had many years to make the change. Why now are you willing to turn on him?

because you don't make changes at the first sign of a problem, you give people a chance to correct the problem. But with Lapo we've seen the same problems creep in now so it's time to recognize that the guy is beyond turning it around. I mean hell Ritchie Hall has done more to change and grow than Lapo has. 

[17to85]

as for OC next year, I want someone who has actually been a quarterback. Preferably in this league. Too many years without one of those guys. 

[ddanger]

11 hours ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

To change the discussion slightly regarding Streveler I do agree and have always stated Lapo is not what the Bombers need to be successful. It looks like many are now agreeing. However the point I would like to bring up is the development of our QBs. Last game was perhaps the second example in as many games were out development of QBs stood out to me. In he Hamilton game the games was over after 3 quarters pint set and match. Why then did they not put on McGuire to give him some meaningful reps. Similarly this past game we were done by our last two possession. Why then didn’t they put in McGuire to give him more game reps. Two examples of when they could give a back up exposure and two examples of when they failed. The same can be said in the banjo bowl...we were dominating and a prime time in the 4th to give mcguire a shot but didn’t. And I’m guessing if you look back over some of our other games there would have been opportunities that were lost. Yet they expect Streveler to step in and be as successful as a starter. Similarly should Streveler go down in comes McGuire with no reps period in real time!

This my friends is no way to develop QBs or any other position for that matter. When given the opportunity to have a player experience live fire should you not do it? Again within reason.

Thisvisvwhat I have witnessed since Lapo has been involved with the Bombers, when first an OC, next as a HC and again this time around. Do I blame Lapo for this....absolutely. Do I blame MOS absolutely again. This is why we never develop QBs, this is why we are in trouble when our starter goes down, and this is why we will not get close to the grey cup this year. Sad a frustrating!

I understand what you are saying here. Back in the old days most teams would pull their starting qb when the game was no longer in doubt. The crazy thing in the CFL is that many leads simply aren't safe even late in the 4th quarter. I totally share your concerns that should Streveler get hurt ( and we all know his style of play lends itself to him getting hurt ) we will be forced into playing Mcguire. I'd like to see him get some 2nd and short, 3rd and short reps to at least get some feel, like we did with Streveler. 

[Old Bomber Fan]

point well taken guess I'm too long in tooth to realize this day and age because of the game itself that this might not be a possibility but really don't understand how you get real time reps for these guys to develop if you don't do that type of thing. Oh well then perhaps much more time has to be spent during practice. God help us if Streveler gets hurt and in comes another green horn with no experience. 

[17to85]

Streveler being so young and raw also needs those reps to develop...

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Streveler being so young and raw also needs those reps to develop...

I'm certainly not taking the ball out of Streveler's hands on 2nd/3rd and short. 

[wbbfan]

35 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Streveler being so young and raw also needs those reps to develop...

True but he also needs to be protected. Especially the way he runs and with the lack of success he had running vs ssk. 

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, M.Silverback said:

I'm with all of these decisions. Assuming we don't go on some unexpected playoff run and win the Grey Cup (could happen, right?), Walters has to put on his GM hat this off season regarding O'Shea. No more linked at the hips, buddy-buddy, we're in this together Canadian mafia thing. He needs to sit Osh down and say I as GM am firing Lapo and Hall, and  I as GM are replacing them. You (head coach) have this season to turn things around or you too will be fired. I think Walters has been good enough at his job to at least earn the right to hire one more head coach. He's not flawless, but, for the most part he's acquired, drafted and retained above average players. The coaching staff has not been good enough. Whether it's the coordinators, head coach, combination, they need to be better. 

It is the HC's job to select his staff.  It is the GM's job to manage the HC.  If you are a GM that is so concerned that the HC is incapable of doing his job properly, you don't do it for him, you replace him.  Forcing coordinators on a head coach is just setting him up for failure because the coordinators will then know that they really work for the GM.  

[Nickthesizz]

Walters will have a job as long as he gets rid of O'Shea, Richie Hall, and gets Masoli.

[Nickthesizz]

On 2019-10-05 at 8:53 PM, Floyd said:

Hate to say it but the Oshea era is over...

Young showed tonight that Richie Hall really is the problem - even with Winston Rose's miscues

Playing Neufeld over Gray has cost this team - that's on Oshea

Sticking with Lapo and Hall - its finished Osh

Another QB ruined.

or maybe admit you were wrong and Streveler sucks and always has.

[M.Silverback]

30 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

It is the HC's job to select his staff.  It is the GM's job to manage the HC.  If you are a GM that is so concerned that the HC is incapable of doing his job properly, you don't do it for him, you replace him.  Forcing coordinators on a head coach is just setting him up for failure because the coordinators will then know that they really work for the GM.  

I wasn't suggesting forcing a HC to work with coordinators picked in isolation by a GM. I get that HC's "make" the decisions on coordinators. But, they also don't do it in isolation, in any pro sport, especially football. NFL or CFL. GM's are ultimately responsible for the hiring and firing of all coaches, so GM's always have a say in the coordinators and definitely the types of coordinators they want for their team, as in their philosophies on offense or defense. GM's are also involved in this due to succession planning. A GM may endorse or suggest a specific coordinator more than others as a potential replacement for the incumbent head coach. So, a GM always has some input, but there is some type of consensus with the HC. 

I basically was posting that the conversation Walters as GM has to have with his HC is that the coordinators need to be replaced. You're right, if O'Shea doesn't agree with that, the proper response is the head coach, along with the coordinators, should be fired.