Osh is a Legend

[SpeedFlex27]

22 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

WTF...I don't understand why your going off like that. I'm just trying to steer the conversation towards who is going to be the replacement as I'm sick and tired of the should we or shouldn't we conversation.  

Where did you see that I want keep Lapo and Hall?  Holy crap man!

Well, you asked. Believe me,  I wasn't going off. If I wanted to then you'd have known. So, why be upset with the answer? You're the third person I've seen here who has asked who are we going to get? You said you know of no one else other than Khari Jones & he's doing a bang up job with the Als…. but you're not sold on him. Which makes no sense. What HC is doing a better job right now other than Craig Dickenson? Why would you make such a statement when you admit you have no clue who could be available? 

It's reasonable to assume based on MOS track record that if he is given a new 3 year contract that he'll bring back one or both of the coordinators who aren't getting the job done.  Why would he change? In 6 years he's shown to be stubborn, slow to adapt & loyal to a fault. So, if Walters gives him another 3 years then the risk will be that the same things that happened before & is happening  now & will continue to happen.  Then it's 9 years of not winning a championship. I'm not prepared to wait any longer. If O'Shea wins a championship this season then fine he can be brought back as he would have earned that right. If he doesn't then his contract should not be renewed.  As a Head Coach, he doesn't deserve another 3 years.  Just for the sake of familiarity. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[Deiter Fan]

6 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

As a Head Coach, he doesn't deserve another 3 years.  Just for the sake of familiarity. 

The interesting part about many workplace situations is that, given a basic level of competence, being liked...being personable and easy to get along with... will actually get you farther than being exceptionally talented and rubbing people the wrong way. Familiarity would also play into this after a while regardless of production.

All the managing partners in this organization being chummy...and MOS's penchant for being loyal to guys he seems to like/that fit in...may just be proof of this concept.

 

[Floyd]

8 hours ago, Mike said:

I mean ... do Robert Gordon and Marquay McDaniel “know how to win” more than our coaching staff? They have one Grey Cup between them, which is less than Jordan Younger for example. 

Not arguing your main point but just stating that it’s not as cut and dry as pointing to the winning attitude of who he has surrounded himself with. There are plenty of winners here too.

This was just one point of several - not cut and dried I agree... just saying that 'nice' coaches can win too

Khari, BobbyG, Marquay all know how to be dominant at their position - they transfer that to the young guys on offence and support Khari

Osh didn't have that in his first years - I mean I would have loved to see Osh take over as HC/DC instead of bringing in a re-tread like Etcheverry...  and then Hall...

Now that he does have more former players in the fold - I'm not sure why Buck can't keep Streveler calm and Jordan Younger couldn't recognize that Hecht is too slow at Safety...

 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

I just want to make one thing clear. I think Mike O'Shea is a winner & he knows what it takes to win. However, knowing how to win as a player & knowing how to win as a Head Coach are two different things. Player just play. They prepare for their opponent & then go out & do it. Some win championships & some don't. Head Coaches are on the sidelines. They make decisions that affect the outcomes of games. A great player may be a rotten HC while a marginal player or someone who never played pro ball could turn out to be a great HC. You just never know how things turn out. I may be calling for O'Shea to be canned at season's end if we don't win but I have no doubt he is a winner as he proved that as a player. Not as a Head Coach. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

44 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I just want to make one thing clear. I think Mike O'Shea is a winner & he knows what it takes to win. However, knowing how to win as a player & knowing how to win as a Head Coach are two different things. Player just play. They prepare for their opponent & then go out & do it. Some win championships & some don't. Head Coaches are on the sidelines. They make decisions that affect the outcomes of games. A great player may be a rotten HC while a marginal player or someone who never played pro ball could turn out to be a great HC. You just never know how things turn out. I may be calling for O'Shea to be canned at season's end if we don't win but I have no doubt he is a winner as he proved that as a player. Not as a Head Coach. 

I think O'Shea absolutely knows how to win as a Head Coach.  I don't believe many others would have been able to average 10+ wins a season over 4 years with QBing and offense in general as shitty as the Bombers have had, especially in this era that heavily favours offense.  They have had to be very creative, and almost perfect, to get points on the board through special teams and turnovers, dominate field position to give this team a chance to win with a huge handicap on O.

[DR. CFL]

3 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

CFL history is rife with great regular season teams that couldn't deliver in the playoffs. Just from a purely mathematical perspective, if this current regime keeps punching playoff tickets, sooner or later a championship will happen. People here are underestimating the importance of being a competent and respectable organization, helps bring in talent and keep it here.

To say that mathematics and probability will determine the ultimate goal of a championship here is at best....not even a stretch. If you believe that how many more years of this patience plan are you willing to endure? Part of the reason for Calgary’s level of stability is predicated on success....not hope and probability.

[DR. CFL]

2 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I think O'Shea absolutely knows how to win as a Head Coach.  I don't believe many others would have been able to average 10+ wins a season over 4 years with QBing and offense in general as shitty as the Bombers have had, especially in this era that heavily favours offense.  They have had to be very creative, and almost perfect, to get points on the board through special teams and turnovers, dominate field position to give this team a chance to win with a huge handicap on O.

Is MOS not ultimately responsible for what you admit is a shitty offence. That’s like saying is level of success is in spite of himself. Accountability begins at the top and filters down, both in business and in professional sports,

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, DR. CFL said:

To say that mathematics and probability will determine the ultimate goal of a championship here is at best....not even a stretch. If you believe that how many more years of this patience plan are you willing to endure? Part of the reason for Calgary’s level of stability is predicated on success....not hope and probability.

Calgary has a great QB.  When they had Burris and Tate they went through many more years of what we've been doing, beating up on average/crappy teams in the regular season and losing to better competition in the playoffs.  They had a transition from Barker to Hufnagel in there and won a championship.

I mean if we're looking at bringing in someone at Hufnagel's level as GM or  Head Coach or both I could be swayed.  Just don't think the candidate is out there or that the Bombers will pay for it.

[DR. CFL]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Calgary has a great QB.  When they had Burris and Tate they went through many more years of what we've been doing, beating up on average/crappy teams in the regular season and losing to better competition in the playoffs.  They had a transition from Barker to Hufnagel in there and won a championship.

I mean if we're looking at bringing in someone at Hufnagel's level as GM or  Head Coach or both I could be swayed.  Just don't think the candidate is out there or that the Bombers will pay for it.

Calgary has also demonstrated an ability to plug and play when they have had significant injuries across the board. They also have had a measure of success when BLM missed a number of games this season.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, DR. CFL said:

Is MOS not ultimately responsible for what you admit is a shitty offence. That’s like saying is level of success is in spite of himself. Accountability begins at the top and filters down, both in business and in professional sports,

True, but the Bombers have been very deliberate in giving Lapolice the offense.  Hard to say how much influence anyone could exact on that guy, even as a "boss."

It could be a pretty significant mistake to fire MOS for not insisting on Lapolice being chopped.  There's more Tim Burke's and Jim Daley's out there than Mike O'Shea's.  If they have someone in mind who can push this team over the hump as a coach, go for it, just not sure who that would be.

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

Calgary has also demonstrated an ability to plug and play when they have had significant injuries across the board. They also have had a measure of success when BLM missed a number of games this season.

Sure, they were .500 without him.  The guys they had the last couple years behind him were horrendous when they got extended play, Stanzi, Buckley etc.

The Bombers have won a fair number of games in the past 4 seasons with significant pieces out too.  To me the big difference is QB and the fact Lapo really can't scheme to do what a team like Hamilton is doing with anyone at QB.

[DR. CFL]

3 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

True, but the Bombers have been very deliberate in giving Lapolice the offense.  Hard to say how much influence anyone could exact on that guy, even as a "boss."

It could be a pretty significant mistake to fire MOS for not insisting on Lapolice being chopped.  There's more Tim Burke's and Jim Daley's out there than Mike O'Shea's.  If they have someone in mind who can push this team over the hump as a coach, go for it, just not sure who that would be.

Not making a change because you are afraid of making a poor decision is a hallmark executive failure in business and sports. Hoping things are going to improve is NOT a plan...again in business and in sport. We have been sold the need for patience for a number of years....

[JuranBoldenRules]

3 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

Not making a change because you are afraid of making a poor decision is a hallmark executive failure in business and sports. Hoping things are going to improve is NOT a plan...again in business and in sport. We have been sold the need for patience for a number of years....

Change for the sake of change is the quick route to failure.  I'm absolutely not against change, but if it is not the correct change we'll just be starting from scratch and we've been there for most of the past 25 years.

Lapolice is clearly bringing nothing to this organization.  This is an obvious change that has very little risk, almost no risk that his replacement is worse, I guess we could be worse than Ottawa next year.  We used to at least be good in the redzone, can't even manage that now.  Objectively over a significant period that has been the only consistent strength of our O, Harris and scoring in the redzone even if they needed a lot of help from D and teams to get there.  There has been no improvement over Lapo's time as OC, no matter how many new players, rookies or CFL veterans, are brought in.  Lowest common denominator is the bald guy talking into the green light.

Hall has taken lots of hits as Walters and Co have tried to jump start the O.  We have spent far more $$$ on O, and handed Hall a random collection of inexperienced DB's and cheap vets.  Our only money guys are D are Jefferson, Jeffcoat and Bighill.  Two of those guys haven't even been a factor this season due to injury.  Hall has done an amazing job to keep points off the board.

[DR. CFL]

7 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Change for the sake of change is the quick route to failure.  I'm absolutely not against change, but if it is not the correct change we'll just be starting from scratch and we've been there for most of the past 25 years.

Lapolice is clearly bringing nothing to this organization.  This is an obvious change that has very little risk, almost no risk that his replacement is worse, I guess we could be worse than Ottawa next year.  We used to at least be good in the redzone, can't even manage that now.  Objectively over a significant period that has been the only consistent strength of our O, Harris and scoring in the redzone even if they needed a lot of help from D and teams to get there.  There has been no improvement over Lapo's time as OC, no matter how many new players, rookies or CFL veterans, are brought in.  Lowest common denominator is the bald guy talking into the green light.

Hall has taken lots of hits as Walters and Co have tried to jump start the O.  We have spent far more $$$ on O, and handed Hall a random collection of inexperienced DB's and cheap vets.  Our only money guys are D are Jefferson, Jeffcoat and Bighill.  Two of those guys haven't even been a factor this season due to injury.  Hall has done an amazing job to keep points off the board.

Thank you....a great measure of this team’s success is the ability to create turnovers, to score on defence, to provide great field position as a result of turnovers. As well as great Success on special teams and a significant number of points scored on FGs. All these factors have contributed to some measure of so called offensive success. While there is no doubt football is in fact 3 phases....O, D and ST....I would argue that ST and D have contributed significantly. Unfortunately when they haven’t we have witnessed this team’s inability to score points,

[blueandgoldguy]

Hall has been given the benefit of a nearly all-American starting lineup for his entire tenure with the Bombers.  1 or 2 starting Americans while the offense typically has had for a 5 starters.  That, in itself, provides him with a significant advantage...well at least it should.

IF the Bombers continue to stumble down the stretch and are one and done in the playoffs once again, good luck trying to sell the idea of a long-term contract extension of Mike O'Shea to the city and the fan base.  He is not nearly as popular as many here may think.

Walters might look at re-signing him, but it's possible, for a variety or reasons, O'Shea may leave for the Argos. 1) Walters offers too short of term ie. 2 years instead of 3 years and without a substantial raise, if any raise at all. 2)  O'Shea wants to head back east anyways regardless of the Bombers offer and the Argos offer a lengthy contract (4 or 5 years) with a generous AAV.

Assuming Lapo is gone in the off-season, I would really love to see the Bombers target Dinwiddie.  He has been viewed as a rising star in the coordinator ranks for a number of years now and has been the quarterbacks coach with Calgary working under Dickenson since 2015.  I would think he has enough seasoning at this point and should be handed the reigns to the offense.  I would prefer him to Buck.

Tom Clements is quarterbacks coach with the Cardinals.  He would be an intriguing prospect for head coach given his connections to the NFL.  Such a hiring wouldn't be without its risks given his time away from the Canadian football league, but there is no doubt he would be able to supply a pipeline of talent to this organization not seen since the days of Murphy.  Moot point though as his salary is likely to be $250 - $400,000 US.  Bombers would likely have to offer $500,000 Canadian to just to  peak his interest and with the cap on coaching salaries, that is probably too much for one position. 

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Hall has taken lots of hits as Walters and Co have tried to jump start the O.  We have spent far more $$$ on O, and handed Hall a random collection of inexperienced DB's and cheap vets.  Our only money guys are D are Jefferson, Jeffcoat and Bighill.  Two of those guys haven't even been a factor this season due to injury.  Hall has done an amazing job to keep points off the board.

Umm... Fenner, Rose, Okpo, Nevis, Heath, Cummings, Westerman... 'cheap vets' - give me a break...

Walters has focused just as much if not more on big name signings and top picks for Hall...  let's not act like Hall has been unjustly served

I honestly believe that Macho Harris, Hurl, Shologan, Jeff Hecht are 'Richie Hall' guys...  these are not dudes forced on him by a tyrannical regime...  

[Old Bomber Fan]

Let me just ask one question.....when was the last time you can remember the Blue Bombers mentoring a QB into a starter? Frankly I have been following them for 65 years and the only one I can think of in that time was Kenny Ploen. We have traded for some good ones (Clements), signed a couple from the States (Brock, Jabobs, Hanzen) who were already established QB in their own right. But who have we brought along aka the Calgary Stampeders, Ottawa back in the day, Edmonton, BC (with Buono there), modern day Hamilton. 

Someone said and correctly QBs have to be on the "right" team to succeed. Is that the offensive scheme, the OL line, the way they are coached? I would say all of the above. Here in Winnipeg, we do not coach our QBs well and I would offer that Buck is not the person we need as a QB coach or OC. If he was we would not be witnessing what we are today. We do not groom our QBs to be successful should they be called upon simply because they don't get the reps other backups on other teams get during practice. Our mentality is next man up which is great but you can't be next man up in the QB position if you don't get the reps and the game plan isn't designed around your strengths. This is nothing new for LaPo; he has been like this his whole career. When we hired him away from TSN everyone was saying how great an analysis and offensive mind he was and he even went south to pick the brains of some NFL OCs. Does that not ring funny? The NFL game is nowhere close to ours; 4 downs verse 3 is a drastic change. And do leopards change their spots?

We need a new OC, have needed one since LaPo signed. We need someone who can teach QBs the subtle nuances of the position and show them how to use their strengths while working on their weaknesses...then translate that to the OC. I was looking around at all the new faces in the coaching ranks this weekend and there are many as has been mentioned. Some I have never heard of but there they are coaching. Because we don't know their names does not mean they will not be good coaches. The DC for Sask totally out coached LaPo and how long has LaPo been around. Same with Montreal, and Hamilton. We need to look outside the box I'm afraid. We lost Kahari, Sask Dickensen and Ottawa Dickensen during this journey. It will be interesting to see what happens next. 

It is truly hard to believe that teams in this league except Winnipeg cannot rebuild a team within a few years never mind 29! Lots have what's our excuse?

[rebusrankin]

So if MOS is not brought back who do you replace him with? Lapo? Benevides? Barker? Austin? Who is the next young up and comer?

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

So if MOS is not brought back who do you replace him with? Lapo? Benevides? Barker? Austin? Who is the next young up and comer?

How many times does that question have to be asked? It's lame. Let Walters figure it out. That's his job. Not ours.  You would prefer 9 years of mediocrity under O'Shea (with a new 3 year deal) with subpar Coordinators who can't adapt or are too stubborn to change or unable to adapt? I mean, look at our first DC.. Gary fricking Etcheverry. Our first OC? Marcel Bellefeuille. We replaced Etcheverry with Hall & Bellefeuille with LaPo. Hardly what I'd call improvements & so it goes under O'Shea. Things don't change until change is actually made.  What has O'Shea accomplished as a HC to deserve to be around for 9 seasons? 

Edited October 7, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[M.O.A.B.]

8 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

So if MOS is not brought back who do you replace him with? Lapo? Benevides? Barker? Austin? Who is the next young up and comer?

Condell or Campbell 

[Floyd]

11 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

So if MOS is not brought back who do you replace him with? Lapo? Benevides? Barker? Austin? Who is the next young up and comer?

Buck, Markus Howell, Pete Costanza, Dinwiddie, Bob Dyce... sorry these are my Lapo replacements ha

IF MOS leaves, I'd try my best to get Carson Walch back to the CFL as HC/OC - tall order though

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Floyd

[J5V]

7 hours ago, B-F-F-C said:

Why do we always blame the coaches?  It's obvious that Adam's and Arbuckle are simply better overall QB's than Streveler is.  Once again many of you have been tricked by "fools gold". 

Always the first the say told ya so but when he plays for a different set of coaches and lights it up you'll be nowhere to be found.

I'm sure you know much better than Bob Nielson ...

 

[Carlos Harper]

37 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

So if MOS is not brought back who do you replace him with? Lapo? Benevides? Barker? Austin? Who is the next young up and comer?

 Same question if he walks.

[Goalie]

FFS.. Lapo is killing Strevelers spirit. 

[B-F-F-C]

9 minutes ago, J5V said:

Always the first the say told ya so but when he plays for a different set of coaches and lights it up you'll be nowhere to be found.

I'm sure you know much better than Bob Nielson ...

 

I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong. I’ve done it here before and I’m sure I’ll do it a few times before my time here is up.