Bombers acquire Zach Collaros

[NorthernSkunk]

52 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He's all we got so we have to ride with him as far as he can go. 

No different then all the past seasons with Nichols....,  an Big Chris only needs one playoff win to tie Nichols for that stat.  

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

No different then all the past seasons with Nichols....,  an Big Chris only needs one playoff win to tie Nichols for that stat.  

Wait, it was a team win when Nichols won a playoff game according to you but when the Bombers lose it's all on Nichols. Seems to me  that if Streveler ever climbs the lofty peaks & the Bombers win a playoff game you'll be more than willing to say, "He did it" & give Streveler  all the credit in the world that you won't give Nichols. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[Blueandgold]

6 hours ago, Noeller said:

the 01 GC was on ESPN CC last night and I almost.....almost.......decided to watch it. Couldn't bring myself to do it. I still have never re-watched the game in the last 18 years. It's still too soon and hurts too much...

I can't re-watch 01, 07 or 11 until we win one. I just can't put myself through that.

[J5V]

10 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Where is this superior intellect?  I don't see it. Others have picked up the game faster than him. Like Ricky Ray, Bo Levi Mitchell, Mike Reilly, Doug Flutie, Tom Clements & Warren Moon.

Come on! He calls the plays he's given. It's written on his little playbook attached to his sleeve. You know how it works on this team -- you play the way you're told to play, no exceptions. Start freelancing and you're sitting on the bench. He's smart enough to do as he's told isn't he? 

How many of the QBs you've listed above have had to play for Lapo?

What kind of receiving corps did the QBs you've mentioned have?

The kid is saddled with a timid OC and a weak set of receivers and you know this so why keep dumping on him? 

The fact he has been as successful as he has proves his intelligence given what he has done with what he has been given. If he had Rogers, Walker, Begelton, Banks, Myala, Ellingson, Green, Williams, Posey, etc. to throw to how smart would he look then? 

Because he can't make great tasting chicken salad out of chicken **** doesn't make him stupid!

[Booch]

14 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You base that intelligence level on what?  Nine starts, Booch? He hasn't shown any intelligence level superior to any of those guys you mention yet. I say, yet... as he could develop into a starting qb or... not.  However, at this time I'm not ready to anoint him superior in the brain game to any of those 3 guys who played before him.

You keep mentioning that Streveler is intelligent. You read that somewhere & have attached that monicker to him on several occasions like it's some kind of Red Badge Of Courage. Where is this superior intellect?  I don't see it. Others have picked up the game faster than him. Like Ricky Ray, Bo Levi Mitchell, Mike Reilly, Doug Flutie, Tom Clements & Warren Moon. All I see is a second year pro who is prone to making mistakes throwing the ball who is struggling on the field at times. He's still a kid playing a man's game.

He's shown to be no more intelligent than any other inexperienced back up qb in the CFL at present or have come before him. I see a player with unlimited potential & athletic ability off the charts but average when it comes to picking up the Canadian game.  He ain't ready for prime time yet. Hopefully, he will be someday. He's all we got so we have to ride with him as far as he can go. 

You compare him to all Hall OF Famers...future Hall of Famers?...thats pretty heady comparison...save for Reilly right now nobody else in the league is at that level, or most likely will ever get to that level so thats a pretty poor comparison.

All scouting reports, past coaches, draft profile...current coaching staff and people I have talked to have all stated his intelligence, and how quickly he can absorb things...picking out 1 or 2 or 3 errors he has made as reason to say he doesn't possess superior intelligence is kind of laughable...almost like cherry picking stats to prop a guy up versus someone else. What other new QB who has ever laced up in the league starting out hasn't been prone to throwing a pick, or forcing a ball...even the aforementioned guys you stated did that and also late in their careers...faulting a guy for trying is hardly an indication of "not" having it.

He came into the league as a fresh rookie..with 3 weeks exposure to Canadian ball after barely 2 years experience as a College QB and should have won his season opener against EDM...and won his second start, and should have 2 more wins this year as a starter if not for the defensive collapses, so I would say as a 24 year old he is picking the game up pretty damn well and fast....tho it seems here opinions will vary amoung the masses and the less informed/experienced

I will take what has been said by coaching staffs, draft analysis and scouting report people and teamates, as well as my own observation anytime over forum analysts..sure he may not be ready for primetime but saying he is average at picking up Canadian game is a real reach, and your opinion soley...based on what I am not sure...same question can be asked that you asked me...you base his trouble grasping the game based on what??..Nine starts? and cause he has thrown some forced picks?..a couple of which no real fault of his

[NorthernSkunk]

14 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Wait, it was a team win when Nichols won a playoff game according to you but when the Bombers lose it's all on Nichols. Seems to me  that if Streveler ever climbs the lofty peaks & the Bombers win a playoff game you'll be more than willing to say, "He did it" & give Streveler  all the credit in the world that you won't give Nichols. 

QB's have a win loss stat that follows them around.....that is all I was saying.

[M.Silverback]

33 minutes ago, Booch said:

All scouting reports, past coaches, draft profile...current coaching staff and people I have talked to have all stated his intelligence, and how quickly he can absorb things...picking out 1 or 2 or 3 errors he has made as reason to say he doesn't possess superior intelligence is kind of laughable...almost like cherry picking stats to prop a guy up versus someone else. What other new QB who has ever laced up in the league starting out hasn't been prone to throwing a pick, or forcing a ball...even the aforementioned guys you stated did that and also late in their careers...faulting a guy for trying is hardly an indication of "not" having it.

 

I like Streveler, and think he has a chance to be a good starting CFL QB. He's not there yet, but, he's young and inexperienced. I've heard the intelligent thing too about him. That can mean a few different things for a QB. In part, it's how well you understand offenses and defenses in the QB and film room. But there's also the on field intelligence - how well do you take that knowledge and apply it on the field when things go to crap. Do you have pocket presence, vision, ability to make quick decisions. That's the key. If you're great in the film room but can't execute on field, you become a valuable back up QB. All that to say, I hope Streveler develops that type of on field intelligence. Right now, he's struggling with that, which is one reason why he's throwing untimely interceptions, and missing wide open receivers. 

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

I like Streveler, and think he has a chance to be a good starting CFL QB. He's not there yet, but, he's young and inexperienced. I've heard the intelligent thing too about him. That can mean a few different things for a QB. In part, it's how well you understand offenses and defenses in the QB and film room. But there's also the on field intelligence - how well do you take that knowledge and apply it on the field when things go to crap. Do you have pocket presence, vision, ability to make quick decisions. That's the key. If you're great in the film room but can't execute on field, you become a valuable back up QB. All that to say, I hope Streveler develops that type of on field intelligence. Right now, he's struggling with that, which is one reason why he's throwing untimely interceptions, and missing wide open receivers. 

I agree for most part, but with the bolded parts thats what gets resolved with experience...reps...time in the league and chemistry with your receivers and having that connection where you speak and do things on the filed without basically speaking...and these are the things that with reps and time...he will get...he is bascally still a baby in the grand scheme of things considering his limited QB experience coming into the league...and from what he has done and accomplished already based on that it's pretty impressive and encouraging

[17to85]

god it's not like Streveler makes an inordinate amount of mental errors on the field. I actually think he sees the field quite well. His ints are mostly a case of him trying to force something. That doesn't speak to lack of intelligence to me, more like a guy who tries to make something happen. 

God remember Khari Jones? He threw a pile of ints, but he made a pile of plays too because he was forcing the issue. and a lot of his ints aren't even because of bad reads either, some of them, like for example the one to Adams in the endzone was just a throw that wasn't put where it needed to be. Guy even said that on the post game interview. Every time I hear him talk he seems to know what he did wrong and what he should have done. I have no questions about his intelligence on field or off. He's just raw and needs some experience to put the whole package together. 

 

[GCJenks]

It's not like Streveler is prone to brain farts like spiking the ball behind himself to try and end a play...

 

[sweep the leg]

20 minutes ago, GCJenks said:

It's not like Streveler is prone to brain farts like spiking the ball behind himself to try and end a play...

 

Lol, that was one of the most "wtf" plays I've seen in a long time. Then the qb on the peewee team I coach did the same thing a few days later. He was getting sacked and tried to throw it away, but threw it 20 yards backwards...

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, sweep the leg said:

Lol, that was one of the most "wtf" plays I've seen in a long time. Then the qb on the peewee team I coach did the same thing a few days later. He was getting sacked and tried to throw it away, but threw it 20 yards backwards...

Saw a kid try the "need to change the ball" trick and get destroyed last year. The spike is still the dumbest thing Ive seen in a while though. 

[Mark H.]

If Strev doesn't at least try to complete deeper throws, teams will key on our run game and stuff it most of the time.  That will hurt us more than the interceptions he's thrown. 

[Colin Unger]

7 hours ago, 17to85 said:

god it's not like Streveler makes an inordinate amount of mental errors on the field. I actually think he sees the field quite well. His ints are mostly a case of him trying to force something. That doesn't speak to lack of intelligence to me, more like a guy who tries to make something happen. 

God remember Khari Jones? He threw a pile of ints, but he made a pile of plays too because he was forcing the issue. and a lot of his ints aren't even because of bad reads either, some of them, like for example the one to Adams in the endzone was just a throw that wasn't put where it needed to be. Guy even said that on the post game interview. Every time I hear him talk he seems to know what he did wrong and what he should have done. I have no questions about his intelligence on field or off. He's just raw and needs some experience to put the whole package together. 

 

Yeah but we had a much better offensive co-ordinator back then... wait a minute?

[17to85]

58 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

Yeah but we had a much better offensive co-ordinator back then... wait a minute?

Yeah a guy so good he got himself fired.

Khari was MOP before lapo showed up. Lapo was there when they had playoff disappointments though.

[rebusrankin]

Lapo had a future HOF WR in Milt, a future HOF RB in Blink, a QB who played at an all-star level in Khari, an all league fullback in Sellers and a future HOF WR in Bruce and ended up getting fired. Says a lot.

[17to85]

The guy thought Marcus Howell could step into Bruce's spot. That should tell you everything you need to know about lapo.

[blueingreenland]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah a guy so good he got himself fired.

Khari was MOP before lapo showed up. Lapo was there when they had playoff disappointments though.

LaPo started here as OC the year Milt won MVP honors...

[SpeedFlex27]

16 hours ago, Booch said:

You compare him to all Hall OF Famers...future Hall of Famers?...thats pretty heady comparison...save for Reilly right now nobody else in the league is at that level, or most likely will ever get to that level so thats a pretty poor comparison.

All scouting reports, past coaches, draft profile...current coaching staff and people I have talked to have all stated his intelligence, and how quickly he can absorb things...picking out 1 or 2 or 3 errors he has made as reason to say he doesn't possess superior intelligence is kind of laughable...almost like cherry picking stats to prop a guy up versus someone else. What other new QB who has ever laced up in the league starting out hasn't been prone to throwing a pick, or forcing a ball...even the aforementioned guys you stated did that and also late in their careers...faulting a guy for trying is hardly an indication of "not" having it.

He came into the league as a fresh rookie..with 3 weeks exposure to Canadian ball after barely 2 years experience as a College QB and should have won his season opener against EDM...and won his second start, and should have 2 more wins this year as a starter if not for the defensive collapses, so I would say as a 24 year old he is picking the game up pretty damn well and fast....tho it seems here opinions will vary amoung the masses and the less informed/experienced

I will take what has been said by coaching staffs, draft analysis and scouting report people and teamates, as well as my own observation anytime over forum analysts..sure he may not be ready for primetime but saying he is average at picking up Canadian game is a real reach, and your opinion soley...based on what I am not sure...same question can be asked that you asked me...you base his trouble grasping the game based on what??..Nine starts? and cause he has thrown some forced picks?..a couple of which no real fault of his

Those HOF'ers played right from the time they came to the league to when they left or retired. No one ever said that they needed time or experience to be successful because they were right from the start. They picked up the game from their very first day of training camp their very first season. I think that does show a high level of intelligence in comparison to others who struggled understanding Canadian defenses. No surprise that the players mentioned became HOF'ers but being one was  not a prerequisite with my choices. 

I just think the scoop on Streveler is somewhere in the middle. He's having some difficulty picking up the Canadian game but he's not inept as a qb either. He does have tremendous potential. There's a reason why only a few qbs come up here from the States & find success immediately.  Because it's damned hard!! Some qbs with tons of talent just struggle to understand the Canadian game. While others never get it. I also don't think at this time that Streveler's capable of leading the Bombers thru the pressure of the playoffs to the Grey Cup, let alone win it all. Some people here just thought that all he had to do was take over from Nichols & his running ability would compensate for his lack of passing & we'd be alright.  Undervaluing Nichols & overvaluing Streveler.  Well, it's much more complicated than that. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[Mr Dee]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Some people here just thought that all he had to do was take over from Nichols & his running ability would compensate for his lack of passing & we'd be alright. 

I don’t think it’s that black and white. Streveler’s running ability is part of who he is as a QB. It’s part of his game. It could be very useful if used properly. 
And his passing abilities are only limited by what is called and a lack of experience. He has already shown he throws a nice ball and has used the pass and run to gain valuable yardage and 1st downs. People forget about the shorter completions Streveler throws and concentrate on the longer, flawed throws. That’s short-sighted. He has shown the propensity to learn and I look forward to his continual improvement. Yes, even on long balls downfield.

[GCn20]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Those HOF'ers played right from the time they came to the league to when they left or retired. No one ever said that they needed time or experience to be successful because they were right from the start. They picked up the game from their very first day of training camp their very first season. I think that does show a high level of intelligence in comparison to others who struggled understanding Canadian defenses. No surprise that the players mentioned became HOF'ers but being one was  not a prerequisite with my choices. 

I just think the scoop on Streveler is somewhere in the middle. He's having some difficulty picking up the Canadian game but he's not inept as a qb either. He does have tremendous potential. There's a reason why only a few qbs come up here from the States & find success immediately.  Because it's damned hard!! Some qbs with tons of talent just struggle to understand the Canadian game. While others never get it. I also don't think at this time that Streveler's capable of leading the Bombers thru the pressure of the playoffs to the Grey Cup, let alone win it all. Some people here just thought that all he had to do was take over from Nichols & his running ability would compensate for his lack of passing & we'd be alright.  Undervaluing Nichols & overvaluing Streveler.  Well, it's much more complicated than that. 

I agree. I think Chris Streveler will have a very successful future in the CFL. He's not there yet though. However, the only apt comparison listed in the QBs is BLM and Mike Reilly. The rest had the benefit of beginning their starting careers in the 60's.70's 80's which allowed for a crap load more of mistakes than the game allows for now. So in that context, both BLM and MR were not immediately successful. Neither guy started out as a starter immediately. They both mentored as backups under very good QBs before getting their chances at starting. Also, Mike Reilly's first year as a starter...you might want to check his win/loss record on that season. It took him a year of starting before he learned how to win too.

Edited October 18, 2019 by gcn11

[Booch]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Those HOF'ers played right from the time they came to the league to when they left or retired. No one ever said that they needed time or experience to be successful because they were right from the start. They picked up the game from their very first day of training camp their very first season. I think that does show a high level of intelligence in comparison to others who struggled understanding Canadian defenses. No surprise that the players mentioned became HOF'ers but being one was  not a prerequisite with my choices. 

I just think the scoop on Streveler is somewhere in the middle. He's having some difficulty picking up the Canadian game but he's not inept as a qb either. He does have tremendous potential. There's a reason why only a few qbs come up here from the States & find success immediately.  Because it's damned hard!! Some qbs with tons of talent just struggle to understand the Canadian game. While others never get it. I also don't think at this time that Streveler's capable of leading the Bombers thru the pressure of the playoffs to the Grey Cup, let alone win it all. Some people here just thought that all he had to do was take over from Nichols & his running ability would compensate for his lack of passing & we'd be alright.  Undervaluing Nichols & overvaluing Streveler.  Well, it's much more complicated than that. 

Have to disagree there..Moon was barely a 50% passer his first 3 years with 54.7% being his best year...double digit INT's 2 of 3 years as well...Clements as well his first 2 years was a under 60% as a passer...threw INT's in the teens his first 4 years..never eclipsed 2900 yards his first 5 seasoned and that was playing 16 games as well, Flutie came into league with 5 years of pro experience with USFL and NFL so can hardly even put him in that conversation...Reilly had 2 seasons in league backing up before he became a starter with middling numbers and save for a last chance pre-seaso game was almost cut..Bo levi was a 3rd stringer for his first year and a half before he got his chance to start....learning this game and the position.

So looking back none of the mentioned other than Ricky Ray came in with zero experience as a pro and was thrust into a starter role and took off with their feet running...especially with only 2 years experience at the college level prior to turning pro..so his learning curve is waaayyyy bigger than the norm and his advancement is rather spectacular when you look at it all things considered, especially with pressures of a team on a 29 yr drought and in a bigtime playoff battle

Reilly...Bo..all served several years as a back-up and Clements and Moon didn't light the world on fire until 3-4 years into their starting career

Edited October 18, 2019 by Booch

[M.Silverback]

23 minutes ago, Booch said:

Have to disagree there..Moon was barely a 50% passer his first 3 years with 54.7% being his best year...double digit INT's 2 of 3 years as well...Clements as well his first 2 years was a under 60% as a passer...threw INT's in the teens his first 4 years..never eclipsed 2900 yards his first 5 seasoned and that was playing 16 games as well, Flutie came into league with 5 years of pro experience with USFL and NFL so can hardly even put him in that conversation...Reilly had 2 seasons in league backing up before he became a starter with middling numbers and save for a last chance pre-seaso game was almost cut..Bo levi was a 3rd stringer for his first year and a half before he got his chance to start....learning this game and the position.

So looking back none of the mentioned other than Ricky Ray came in with zero experience as a pro and was thrust into a starter role and took off with their feet running...especially with only 2 years experience at the college level prior to turning pro..so his learning curve is waaayyyy bigger than the norm and his advancement is rather spectacular when you look at it all things considered, especially with pressures of a team on a 29 yr drought and in a bigtime playoff battle

Reilly...Bo..all served several years as a back-up and Clements and Moon didn't light the world on fire until 3-4 years into their starting career

Good reminders that it is normal for a QB to take some time to develop in pro football. And I am in the camp that I think Steveler could be a good starting CFL QB. That said, if I'm Kyle Walters, I'd still consider multiple options next year at QB. Unless we go a run in the playoffs and win the Grey Cup, there's no way I'd sit back and just say we're going with Nichols or Streveler. Any and all options - Masoli, Evans, unknown QB, Sean (jerry) McGuire ... I'd take the position if we're one and done in the playoffs that the QB job is basically open. 

[Booch]

for sure 100%....we can't sit and stand pat, have to improve whatever way we can, and even if we win the Cup with Streveler a lot of it would be to do with great defense, some luck and quite likely Strev playing over his head and doing it on the ground, moreso than finally having it all click.

I want to see him back, but not as the defacto starter, but earn it with his play in camp and showing more progression...which I am certain he will. I think rolling with him as your cemented number 1 going into camp can go really well as he has realized that potential, or it will be a season of highs and lows...more highs than lows and still successful but lots of growing pains...but by years end in that scenario he may have become seasoned and a legit number 1 too...be very interesting off-season and the last 2 games this year and whatever happens in play-offs will be big factors in it

[17to85]

10 hours ago, blueingreenland said:

LaPo started here as OC the year Milt won MVP honors...

"Hey Milt, go deep" isn't brilliant offensive coordinating.