GDT: Bombers at Stamps

[Tracker]

45 minutes ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

All the QB comments aside, and I’m a Streveler fan like most, this comes down to coaching plain and simple. Streveler has been with the team for 2 years and has been given little opportunity to develop his throwing abilities. Buck pierce was a Streveler run first pass second so how would one think he could develop his passing game. And if memory is correct pierce wasn’t that great a passer either. Then you have the game plan being practiced week in week out....short pass game very few long balls little time to develop chemistry with receivers outside 10 yards and no development on timing ie throwing to a spot where the receiver is supposed to be. So from a coaching perspective little developmental input hence little development.

Another point that has been mentioned here, why did the coaches risk Streveler’s career and health seeing what we all saw....a guy who could barely walk let alone run ! Any sensible coach would have taken him out whether he wanted to or not the first time he could hardly get up! Why do you have backups dressed....to look pretty? I blame O’Shea first and Lapo second...regardless of what Streveler said he should have been taken out and replaced by either of the others.

and finally why did Harris only get 12 touches running the ball.it certainly says something about the game plan when the QB has more rushing attempts and more yards than the leading rusher in the league!

 

oh well maybe next year!

I cannot justify O'Shea's putting Streveler out there when he was so damaged. It was obvious that Streveler could no longer run or even throw a crisp pass, and yet out he was sent again. Remember at the end of the last season when Reilly was playing for the Esks and hurt? We were all aghast that Maas could be so stupid, and yet here we are.

[Blueandgold]

People seem to continuously neglect the fact that we have a awful receiving core when discussing our QB situation. 

We don’t have a single player anywhere near the level of Milt, Armstrong or Edwards in 2007. Who's our best receiver and where do they rank league wide? Every single team has one if not two receivers better than whoever our best guy is (and I don’t even know who that would be, probably Bailey or Lawler).

[White Out]

Walters is absolutely skating free from shared blame, agreed. Our receivers are garbage. 

[BomberBall]

7 minutes ago, White Out said:

Walters is absolutely skating free from shared blame, agreed. Our receivers are garbage. 

Are they garbage or are they not put in a position to succeed?  I’m honestly not sure, but I see a ton of 5-7 yard curl routes for our receivers.  Limited to no threat of an intermediate to long throw, and those plays are tough to be successful with.  The passing game is definitely broken and it’s not likely on any one person or position group.

[White Out]

15 minutes ago, BomberBall said:

Are they garbage or are they not put in a position to succeed?  I’m honestly not sure, but I see a ton of 5-7 yard curl routes for our receivers.  Limited to no threat of an intermediate to long throw, and those plays are tough to be successful with.  The passing game is definitely broken and it’s not likely on any one person or position group.

At the end of the day it all falls on Walters. If you want to say the deployment is wrong then why the same coaching staff so long? 

That said, he's not my primary place of blame. So maybe it all doesn't fall on him? But the fact he's so loyal to bad coaching is questionable. Lots of blame to go around for a team that appears to have peaked 2 years ago... A 12 - 6 record with a one and done in playoff. 

For all we know mos begged Walters to let him keep his coordinators in place. 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by White Out

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Hypothetically, if you put Streveler in Mitchell’s spot in that Calgary offence, do you not think he could hit those wide open receivers that Mitchell had?......Food for thought.

 

He could hit them. I mean, even a broken clock is right twice a day. I think Streveler has a lot of guts & courage. But at the CFL level that isn't enough. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, BomberBall said:

Are they garbage or are they not put in a position to succeed?  I’m honestly not sure, but I see a ton of 5-7 yard curl routes for our receivers.  Limited to no threat of an intermediate to long throw, and those plays are tough to be successful with.  The passing game is definitely broken and it’s not likely on any one person or position group.

Our receivers aren't garbage. They have talent & if they were in any other offense we'd have a couple of thousand yard receivers. But not with this offense. 

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, J5V said:

 You're just taking it out on Streveler and throwing stats around when you know he has a crap OC and consequently no open receivers to throw to. Do you remember Nichols saying he had no open receivers to throw to last year? It wouldn't matter who was playing QB on this team the stats wouldn't be there. 

Stats don't lie but they can be manipulated. However, in this case no manipulation can hide the ineptitude of Streveler's throwing the ball. It's apparent we have a qb incapable of throwing the ball with success. But here's a thought. LaPo sucks. We know that. If MOS somehow incredibly is offered a new deal what's the chances of our HC bringing him back? I'd say pretty damned good. And then, hey another year wasted in 2020.

Edited October 20, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[Tracker]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Stats don't lie but they can be manipulated. However, in this case it's apparent we have a qb incapable of throwing the ball with success. But here's a thought. LaPo sucks. We know that. If MOS somehow incredibly is offered a new deal what's the chances of our HC bringing him back? I'd say pretty damned good. And then, hey another year wasted in 2020.

An excruciatingly sad prospect. If Walters brings O'Shea back, he has signed his own death warrant.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

An excruciatingly sad prospect. If Walters brings O'Shea back, he has signed his own death warrant.

Sick to death of this garbage. He just about killed Streveler last night. Refused to take him out. Should have played McGuire. Crap offense, **** defense. can't win a big game as a HC if his life depended on it. Same old song. 

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, AKAChip said:

Talent is not something Streveler is lacking either. 

As a running back. 

[Old Bomber Fan]

I think one has to look at our passing game versus any other in the league. It is interesting for example that yesterday BLM hardly ever threw to a standing still receiver whereas that is all our QB does with the exception of 2 or 3 throws. In most team sports where advancing the “object” in this case a football players are normally taught to put it in a position for the player to receive it in stride or whatever. Look at soccer, hockey, ruby, basketball, even ringette, the players almost always ware dive the object in stride. Okay not always in basketball but in advancing the all down court yes. 

why then are our receivers constantly standing still when the hall is thrown to them. Oh we tried the deep ball a couple of times and were successful of a couple but the majority are short curls and the player is going nowhere most of the time when he gets it. I don’t see it as often with other teams especially CALGARY. That is why they lead the lead in passes over 20 yards or more. That is why we are at the bottom of the league in passing yards. Does it have anything to do with the caliber of our receivers or the ability of the QB or perhaps the offensive scheme?

All I know is Lapo has run this type of offence since coming into the league. When he arrived in Winnipeg as our OC the first time he took over an offence that was second to non in the league I believe in most categories. It was an offence that was developed by Rick workman the year before. The bombers fired workman because he couldn’t get along with Charlie Roberts. To the point though, Lapo was fired I believe two years later because the offence declined significantly. He did go onto win a grey cup with sask but it was their defence that won it for them not the offence. He came back here as head coach and was fired in his second season I believe because the team was terrible. Can’t blame it all on the coach but he had the day in who is selected to the team.

Then for some reason when mos became coach the higher ups thought he would be a great Coordinatore because he was a TSN analyst. Perhaps the other thought was they needed some veteran coaches as coordinators to help mos or to possibly replace him. Well we all know the story now.....retreads are retreads. They do not become successful if leaning on their past victories and will only be successful again if they look to the future for different thinking in how theyy themselves can grow.

Sorry for the long rant but it is obvious to me that this trio will never develop a winning team if they stay together. It has been what 5-6 years now and while we have seen some improvement there isn’t enough to suggest they can win it all. Stats say what you want them to say, winning is a stat that doesn’t lean on stats.
 

 

[lyin' guy]

15 hours ago, blueandgoldguy said:

Bighill has been a bust this season for what the Bombers are paying him.  

He's not a MLB. 

[AKAChip]

2 minutes ago, lyin' guy said:

He's not a MLB. 

He’s really not anything anymore. 

[White Out]

Bighill and Matthews have to be the most disappointing FA signings in recent memory 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

I think one has to look at our passing game versus any other in the league. It is interesting for example that yesterday BLM hardly ever threw to a standing still receiver whereas that is all our QB does with the exception of 2 or 3 throws. In most team sports where advancing the “object” in this case a football players are normally taught to put it in a position for the player to receive it in stride or whatever. Look at soccer, hockey, ruby, basketball, even ringette, the players almost always ware dive the object in stride. Okay not always in basketball but in advancing the all down court yes. 

why then are our receivers constantly standing still when the hall is thrown to them. Oh we tried the deep ball a couple of times and were successful of a couple but the majority are short curls and the player is going nowhere most of the time when he gets it. I don’t see it as often with other teams especially CALGARY. That is why they lead the lead in passes over 20 yards or more. That is why we are at the bottom of the league in passing yards. Does it have anything to do with the caliber of our receivers or the ability of the QB or perhaps the offensive scheme?

All I know is Lapo has run this type of offence since coming into the league. When he arrived in Winnipeg as our OC the first time he took over an offence that was second to non in the league I believe in most categories. It was an offence that was developed by Rick workman the year before. The bombers fired workman because he couldn’t get along with Charlie Roberts. To the point though, Lapo was fired I believe two years later because the offence declined significantly. He did go onto win a grey cup with sask but it was their defence that won it for them not the offence. He came back here as head coach and was fired in his second season I believe because the team was terrible. Can’t blame it all on the coach but he had the day in who is selected to the team.

Then for some reason when mos became coach the higher ups thought he would be a great Coordinatore because he was a TSN analyst. Perhaps the other thought was they needed some veteran coaches as coordinators to help mos or to possibly replace him. Well we all know the story now.....retreads are retreads. They do not become successful if leaning on their past victories and will only be successful again if they look to the future for different thinking in how theyy themselves can grow.

Sorry for the long rant but it is obvious to me that this trio will never develop a winning team if they stay together. It has been what 5-6 years now and while we have seen some improvement there isn’t enough to suggest they can win it all. Stats say what you want them to say, winning is a stat that doesn’t lean on stats.
 

 

Lapolice is in his 10th season as a primary play caller in the CFL.  Exactly once he has coached a top 3 passing offense, and that was his first year in 2002 when Milt had the best season by a receiver in CFL history. 

Doesn't matter what collection of players he has.

At some point the guy has to go from being a "genius" to a guy who can't make an offense work, and can't figure out how to utilize talent week after week.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

attlyI think one has to look at our passing game versus any other in the league. It is interesting for example that yesterday BLM hardly ever threw to a standing still receiver whereas that is all our QB does with the exception of 2 or 3 throws. In most team sports where advancing the “object” in this case a football players are normally taught to put it in a position for the player to receive it in stride or whatever. Look at soccer, hockey, ruby, basketball, even ringette, the players almost always ware dive the object in stride. Okay not always in basketball but in advancing the all down court yes. 

why then are our receivers constantly standing still when the hall is thrown to them. Oh we tried the deep ball a couple of times and were successful of a couple but the majority are short curls and the player is going nowhere most of the time when he gets it. I don’t see it as often with other teams especially CALGARY. That is why they lead the lead in passes over 20 yards or more. That is why we are at the bottom of the league in passing yards. Does it have anything to do with the caliber of our receivers or the ability of the QB or perhaps the offensive scheme?

All I know is Lapo has run this type of offence since coming into the league. When he arrived in Winnipeg as our OC the first time he took over an offence that was second to non in the league I believe in most categories. It was an offence that was developed by Rick workman the year before. The bombers fired workman because he couldn’t get along with Charlie Roberts. To the point though, Lapo was fired I believe two years later because the offence declined significantly. He did go onto win a grey cup with sask but it was their defence that won it for them not the offence. He came back here as head coach and was fired in his second season I believe because the team was terrible. Can’t blame it all on the coach but he had the day in who is selected to the team.

Then for some reason when mos became coach the higher ups thought he would be a great Coordinatore because he was a TSN analyst. Perhaps the other thought was they needed some veteran coaches as coordinators to help mos or to possibly replace him. Well we all know the story now.....retreads are retreads. They do not become successful if leaning on their past victories and will only be successful again if they look to the future for different thinking in how theyy themselves can grow.

Sorry for the long rant but it is obvious to me that this trio will never develop a winning team if they stay together. It has been what 5-6 years now and while we have seen some improvement there isn’t enough to suggest they can win it all. Stats say what you want them to say, winning is a stat that doesn’t lean on stats.
 

 

To answer your question about throwing to receivers standing still. One it's a zone defense & receivers will find an open area in that zone & "sit" in that open area.  The qb will throw to that receiver. It's a planned route based on the zone defense the offense faces. So, it's done all the time. Streveler doesn't have the accuracy or consistency to make throws like BLM does. He can't hit receivers in stride consistently. He can't put the ball into small places accurately. So, LaPo doesn't call those routes. That is why our passing attack with Streveler is so severely crippled that our receivers carry those blue vehicle disability cards. 

[bb1]

26 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

To answer your question about throwing to receivers standing still. One it's a zone defense & receivers will find an open area in that zone & "sit" in that open area.  The qb will throw to that receiver. It's a planned route based on the zone defense the offense faces. So, it's done all the time. Streveler doesn't have the accuracy or consistency to make throws like BLM does. He can't hit receivers in stride consistently. He can't put the ball into small places accurately. So, LaPo doesn't call those routes. That is why our passing attack with Streveler is so severely crippled that our receivers carry those blue vehicle disability cards. 

Then i guess the same with Nichols???

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, White Out said:

Bighill and Matthews have to be the most disappointing FA signings in recent memory 

Bighill was very very good last year. This year- not so much.

[SpeedFlex27]

13 minutes ago, bb1 said:

Then i guess the same with Nichols???

Nichols is a Maestro compared to Streveler when it comes to passing the ball. Yes, Streveler is that bad. 

[Mark H.]

17 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Nichols is a Maestro compared to Streveler when it comes to passing the ball. Yes, Streveler is that bad. 

There were plenty of the same routes when Nichols was the QB. It has been a Winnipeg trend for a few years now. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 hours ago, lyin' guy said:

He's not a MLB. 

This and he's noticeably lost a step and a half coming off a hamstring issue.

He's reached the late Barrin Simpson stage of knowing where he's supposed to get to but being 2 yards away, so the great play at 1-2 yards becomes an average play or worse as the ball carrier now has a head of steam or is blowing past him when he's trying to grab on.

[SpeedFlex27]

20 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

There were plenty of the same routes when Nichols was the QB. It has been a Winnipeg trend for a few years now. 

I'm talking qb skill level throwing wise only between Nichols & Streveler. There's no comparison between the 2. Nichols is far superior throwing the ball & he isn't even Top 5. That's how bad Streveler is.

Edited October 20, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[bb1]

33 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm talking qb skill level throwing wise only between Nichols & Streveler. There's no comparison between the 2. Nichols is far superior throwing the ball & he isn't even Top 5. That's how bad Streveler is.

And yet the yardage is not much different??

[NorthernSkunk]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Nichols is a Maestro compared to Streveler when it comes to passing the ball. Yes, Streveler is that bad. 

So why is their average yards per game throwing so similar ?