2-pt conversions

[Doublezero]

Stamps successfully executed 2-point conversions three times in that game for a total of six points.

O'Shea was asked after the 37-33 loss why Bombers don't try 2-pt conversions. "We have our formula," he said. "They try to get you to chase points early - I don't really fall into that trap." Link: https://www.bluebombers.com/2019/10/19/coach-oshea-post-game-54/

But logic tells you that if you succeed even 51% of the time on 2-pointers - you are further ahead than if you don't attempt any 2-pointers at all. Which is basically where the Bombers are. They don't try:  https://www.cfl.ca/2019/10/10/ferguson-breaking-two-point-conversion/

But they should. And this is just further evidence of Oshea's stubbornness becoming a consistent liability. Not saying Bombers would have won vs Stamps if they'd tried 2-pointers but ....

 

 

 

[J5V]

32 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

But they should. And this is just further evidence of Oshea's stubbornness becoming a consistent liability. Not saying Bombers would have won vs Stamps if they'd tried 2-pointers but ....

Is it O'Shea or Lapo?

[17to85]

10 hours ago, Doublezero said:

And this is just further evidence of Oshea's stubbornness becoming a consistent liability. Not saying Bombers would have won vs Stamps if they'd tried 2-pointers but ....

Do you trust our offense to be successful at it? and I mean ****, they coulda covered receivers when the stamps did their 2 pointers, they scored on basically the same play every time. Up and over to the back corner of the endzone. 

[AKAChip]

16 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Do you trust our offense to be successful at it? and I mean ****, they coulda covered receivers when the stamps did their 2 pointers, they scored on basically the same play every time. Up and over to the back corner of the endzone. 

I trust our offence to do very little but similar to how Justin Goltz was one of the most unstoppable goal line QBs in CFL history, I trust that Streveler can convert in that situation at least 8/10 times. And as long as you’re above 50% on 2-point converts (which is laughably easy), it’s worthwhile. 

[Tracker]

The total lack of respect by the Stamps for our pass defence was embarrassing. And they made every damned attempt. Either we have one of the worst collections of talent in our secondary or they have not learned pass defence.

[Old Bomber Fan]

And our DC does nothing about it. Do you think other teams aka sask will learn from this? As far as the offence is concerned that is totally on O’Shea 

[JuranBoldenRules]

6 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Do you trust our offense to be successful at it? and I mean ****, they coulda covered receivers when the stamps did their 2 pointers, they scored on basically the same play every time. Up and over to the back corner of the endzone. 

I'd trust Ottawa's offense to make 51% of 2 pt converts over a whole season...so yes.  I'd expect most to be in the range of 70-75%

O'Shea's logic is really off on this one, it's indefensible.

[AKAChip]

Other teams are making decisions based off stats and analytics and O’Shea goes off of gut feeling and not “falling into traps” whatever that means in this context. Sound strategy. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Other teams are making decisions based off stats and analytics and O’Shea goes off of gut feeling and not “falling into traps” whatever that means in this context. Sound strategy. 

The main thing is if you're playing a team that is going for 2 AND getting them, you have to get on the bandwagon too.

It's not quite this extreme, but would almost be like saying "I didn't worry that we gave up 4 touchdowns because we had the strategy of kicking 10 field goals."

If they are scoring 8 and you are scoring 7, eventually you have to be able to score a lot more, like an extra FG or two depending how high scoring the game is.  An extra two scoring possessions or scoring from the 3 yard line....obviously scoring from the 3 yard line has far greater odds and far fewer variables.

[blueingreenland]

2 hours ago, Tracker said:

Either we have one of the worst collections of talent in our secondary or they have not learned pass defence.

Could there also be a 3rd possibility that can play into things??

(That BLM is one of the most prolific, accurate passers in CFL history).

[Tracker]

33 minutes ago, blueingreenland said:

Could there also be a 3rd possibility that can play into things??

(That BLM is one of the most prolific, accurate passers in CFL history).

The problem with your proposal is that very few Stamps receivers were tackled as soon as the ball arrived. 

[Mark H.]

22/33 337 yards.  

[TBURGESS]

25 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

22/33 337 yards.  

There were also 3 flat out drops in the first 12 throws. One of which was a sure TD. 

[J5V]

2 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I'd trust Ottawa's offense to make 51% of 2 pt converts over a whole season...so yes.  I'd expect most to be in the range of 70-75%

O'Shea's logic is really off on this one, it's indefensible.

He said, paraphrasing, "They're trying to get us to chase the points. I'm not falling into that trap". smh

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

There were also 3 flat out drops in the first 12 throws. One of which was a sure TD. 

There are drops in every game. Bombers dropped some too. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

13 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

There are drops in every game. Bombers dropped some too. 

Fenner also dropped a pick six, goes both ways.

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Fenner also dropped a pick six, goes both ways.

I had forgotten about that - would have been huge.  

[rebusrankin]

Calgary and Hamilton regularly go for 2. I can't recall the last time we did. Just another example of our poor offensive planning.

[blue_gold_84]

I'd love to know how many 2-pt converts this defense has allowed under Hall's "leadership" since 2015... Or even just the last three seasons. I expect the number to be high.

I also don't get why the offense doesn't go for more. Not sure if it would've helped last night's end result but I feel like this is just another facet of this offense's glaring lack of a killer instinct.

And in either case, it's inexcusable. 

[Stats Junkie]

I have numbers back to 2016. Teams have been successful 29/55 (52.7%).

2016

2017

2018

2019

[Doublezero]

Yes,  Oshea's formula here is easily questioned. The ball is placed on the 3.  We have good success with the short pass. Even if you don't trust the pass we have the #1 and #6 rushers in the CFL. A little misdirection one way, a hand-off or disguise in another, should be 2 points for Harris Strev Lucky or Demski more often than not. (As long as they don't go with Demski up the gut - that only ever gets 2 yards except in the last game when he ripped it for 16 off tackle.)

Edited October 21, 2019 by Doublezero

[Tracker]

Things have gotten to the point where criticizing the coaching is like shooting fish in a barrel and beating a dead horse. 

[17to85]

To me questioning the converts is missing the forest for the trees. 

The question should be, why can't we score more touchdowns period? Why can't we defend better and keep teams out of the endzone period. 

2 tds on saturday came because of the D turning the ball over let us not forget. 

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

To me questioning the converts is missing the forest for the trees. 

The question should be, why can't we score more touchdowns period? Why can't we defend better and keep teams out of the endzone period. 

2 tds on saturday came because of the D turning the ball over let us not forget. 

Agree, for the most part, but the lack of respect for our DBs that was shown by going for (and completing) those 2-points conversions was symptomatic of the whole damned defensive performance. I think in only one of those plays was the Bomber defender close enough to break up the play.  Pathetic.

[wbbfan]

17 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Fenner also dropped a pick six, goes both ways.

Rios shoulda picked that insane td pass too. All he had to do was look.