Bench Streveler Again

[JCon]

All depends who our OC is. Masoli works in a very specific system and not outside it. 

McGuire may be a better QB but he still needs time to develop. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

18 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Nice photo chop job to make Matty look bigger lol....

Streveler is 6'1", 216 lbs., Nichols is 6'2", 211 lbs. "Big Chris" is a bit of a myth by the tale of the tape.

[Bigblue204]

4 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

Many question. Which all may be solved when Zach lights it up the next three games and takes to the Grey Cup 😅!!! We can hope, right? 

If Collaros goes on a tear and takes the team to the GC, that could make for an interesting off season. I'm in the group of "Do not resign him, regardless of what happens. Even a GC win!". I'm tired of have to deal with a glass QB (I don't consider Nichols a glass qb) like buck and willy. 

I can see both Nichols and Streveler coming back...and honestly I would be ok with that.

[TrueBlue4ever]

4 hours ago, Mark F said:

 it's an  explanation for the burning question why has not O'Shea won the Grey Cup, which explanation allows the possibility that  O'Shea is a great coach.

The other being blame Hall. or Hall and Paul. But not Mike. Never that.

It goes deeper than that. 17 went all in on the genius of Joe Mack and needed a scapegoat when the team fell into ruin to save his cred on the site. So he blamed LaPo for those failings. Problem was once LaPo got canned, we lost 52-0 the next game with Mack standing beside Tim Burke, so of course all the failures then switched to the ineptitude of Burke. Having set his precedent, 17 has clung to the "blame LaPo" card with the new regime, regardless of personnel issues, results, or injury factors.

Just my opinion.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

I guess it depends on how the season finishes, but i could see Hamilton resigning Masoli and trading Evans.

What? Since Evans has another year with a cheap entry level contract & he has played as good or better than Masoli why would they trade Evans & pay Masoii significantly more money? If I'm whoever the GM is in Hamilton, last thing I can afford with a tight salary cap is signing Masoli when I have a qb as capable or better already there for a cheaper price. 

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

It goes deeper than that. 17 went all in on the genius of Joe Mack and needed a scapegoat when the team fell into ruin to save his cred on the site. So he blamed LaPo for those failings. Problem was once LaPo got canned, we lost 52-0 the next game with Mack standing beside Tim Burke, so of course all the failures then switched to the ineptitude of Burke. Having set his precedent, 17 has clung to the "blame LaPo" card with the new regime, regardless of personnel issues, results, or injury factors.

Just my opinion.

I blame LaPo as well. But I also blame O'Shea & think his days as Bombers HC should be over if we lose in the playoffs again. MOS is definitely a huge part of the problem as it starts with the HC. 

[Bigblue204]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

What? Since Evans has another year with a cheap entry level contract & he has played as good or better than Masoli why would they trade Evans & pay Masoii significantly more money? If I'm whoever the GM is in Hamilton, last thing I can afford with a tight salary cap is signing Masoli when I have a qb as capable or better already there for a cheaper price. 

I can definitely see that too. But I can see Masoli really wanting to come back to Hamilton, as that's where all his success has been. And the team obviously knows him and his capabilities. If TO or OTT or someone else is willing to give up some solid assets for Evans, you'd be crazy to not look at it. We've seen guys come in and light it up for a year and then disappear, Masoli has been performing well for a few years now. Argument could be made you're taking a chance with Evans as he could regress.

I'm also not sure Masoli will be able to demand that much more of a raise...So they might be able to get him signed and have both to a similar amount as this year. Lots of interesting scenarios this off season.

[TrueBlue4ever]

18 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

Nichols/Streveler - Bombers QB's 2020.

Pro: They are both experienced CFL QB's and can win games in the CFL . One very experienced, the other less so. And as is proven every season, teams need more than one QB. Every starter has and will miss some games. So having two QB's that can truly start is really the smart move. 

Con: Neither one is an elite QB in the CFL.

Many questions, but, the big one is do you need an elite QB to win a Grey Cup? Certainly helps. If BLM wins this year provides more evidence to this. But, the only other truly elite QB in the CFL won't be in the playoffs. For the second year in a row. 

Another question is salary. If Nichols wants close to elite level money, I'd say you can't do it. If Streveler wants close to mid tier money - Harris, Fajardo - I'd be really hesitant. Especially since you might be able to get Arbuckle or Evans for around the same amount.

Many questions. Which all may be solved when Zach lights it up the next three games and takes to the Grey Cup 😅!!! We can hope, right? 

 

I could see both Nichols and Streveler back again. As it stands right now, Nichols can only really claim big (Harris-type) dollars based on his win-loss record, but his injury history has to be of concern. I would sign to a heavily incentive-laden contract with payouts for hitting games played, yardage, TDs, etc. Therefore, if he (as he has done every year here) misses a few games he won't hit those marks and it costs us less.

Streveler has not really done anything to suggest that he is in for a big payday in the off-season and that we need to enter a bidding war for his services. His stock may have even dropped with the team falling from 1st to 3rd in the standings once he took over as starter and how he willingly puts himself in harms way so much with his style of play that he has knocked himself out of the lineup. Honestly, thinking back to pre-season, I thought Streveler was the worst of our 4QBs in the games, but since he was locked in at #2, Bennett got his walking papers despite in my mind playing better in limited action. With all the other Western teams, Hamilton and Montreal all set at QB next year, we are only competing with Toronto and Ottawa and have Nichols/Streveler/one of Masoli or Evans/Arbuckle if he shakes loose from Calgary/MBT/Collaros as options, even Franklin or Jennings if you have faith they can be rejuvenated with a change of scenery (not saying I do). I don't see Streveler being one of the top 3 to take over as unquestioned starter based on his second half of the season right now. He signs as a back-up somewhere and continues to develop, but his style is so fundamentally different than every other QB out there, I'm not sure if anyone throws big money at a guy who wouldn't be easily plugged into an existing offensive system and playbook if the starter goes down.

[TrueBlue4ever]

One other option is that we jettison Andrew Harris and go with Augustine and Oilveira as cheaper options, and invest in the team elsewhere (pricier established star receivers, a big ticket QB, a shut down DB or 2). Maybe a change to a pass-focussed offence will follow if the talent is there.

[Bigblue204]

Just now, TrueBlue4ever said:

One other option is that we jettison Andrew Harris and go with Augustine and Oilveira as cheaper options, and invest in the team elsewhere (pricier established star receivers, a big ticket QB, a shut down DB or 2). Maybe a change to a pass-focussed offence will follow if the talent is there.

I think Harris will be a Bomber until he decides he's done. Don't see any coach or management getting rid of him. Not only because he's extremely talented but it would be a PR nightmare.

[M.Silverback]

2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I think Harris will be a Bomber until he decides he's done. Don't see any coach or management getting rid of him. Not only because he's extremely talented but it would be a PR nightmare.

Agree. The other thing with Harris is he is still an elite player. Not saying I'd have an offensive system that runs so much and gives him so many touches. But, even in a more pass oriented system, he's still valuable as he can catch, block, threat in play action. He's probably an overpay in terms of RB's in general, but, as you said, PR nightmare, plus he's still very good.

Edited October 25, 2019 by M.Silverback

[TrueBlue4ever]

But does he hamstring our offence, in that we can't afford top tier talent elsewhere, and therefore utilize a run-heavy offensive scheme? Would the drop off in talent be so much that it would not be offset by gains elsewhere with the cash freed up? Just something to ponder.

[M.Silverback]

Just now, TrueBlue4ever said:

But does he hamstring our offence, in that we can't afford top tier talent elsewhere, and therefore utilize a run-heavy offensive scheme? Would the drop off in talent be so much that it would not be offset by gains elsewhere with the cash freed up? Just something to ponder.

For sure. And if he were some decent American RB, gone. Or some RB who is fourth in rushing in the league, gone. But he's Winnipegger Andrew Harris. Arguably the best known, most loved Bomber. And still good. 100% agree that the offensive scheme should not be built around him, or any RB. And agree we need and will free up some cash. Walters has always been good at that. Rarely takes on or extends a player we shouldn't. And has released some purely on salary. 

If I had to guess, some potential salary casualties - Bighill, Adams, possibly Jefferson depending on how much he wants, maybe Hardrick who I like, but could be looking for $ if his contract is up, some of the veteran DB's. And Nichols. He's the big one. I'd be shocked if Walters gives him a raise from his current deal. 

[TBURGESS]

Arbuckle/Streveler. I'm not interested in taking another chance on a journeyman QB coming off an injury on his throwing shoulder.

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

For sure. And if he were some decent American RB, gone. Or some RB who is fourth in rushing in the league, gone. But he's Winnipegger Andrew Harris. Arguably the best known, most loved Bomber. And still good. 100% agree that the offensive scheme should not be built around him, or any RB. And agree we need and will free up some cash. Walters has always been good at that. Rarely takes on or extends a player we shouldn't. And has released some purely on salary. 

If I had to guess, some potential salary casualties - Bighill, Adams, possibly Jefferson depending on how much he wants, maybe Hardrick who I like, but could be looking for $ if his contract is up, some of the veteran DB's. And Nichols. He's the big one. I'd be shocked if Walters gives him a raise from his current deal. 

Who's getting these pay increases that will cause us to release Bighill and let Adams and Jefferson walk? 

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Arbuckle/Streveler. I'm not interested in taking another chance on a journeyman QB coming off an injury on his throwing shoulder.

It sucked when we were 7-2. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

I don't see Nichols getting or warranting a raise (based on coming off the injury, not a criticism of his play), but the bar has been moved with the Reilly and Mitchell signings last year. Top end QB will run you 3/4 of a mill now, next level $500K plus. If Masoli or Nichols convinces some team that they are completely healthy, it would not surprise me to see at least one team offer close to a half million for them (deserved or not). Depends on desperation, and what you think the drop-off in talent is behind them. No one wants to repeat what Ottawa did this year at QB.

Edited October 25, 2019 by TrueBlue4ever

[M.Silverback]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

Arbuckle/Streveler. I'm not interested in taking another chance on a journeyman QB coming off an injury on his throwing shoulder.

People do seem to be forgetting - surgery to throwing shoulder! Worst thing for a QB. Especially one who didn't have a gun to begin with. He's likely going to be impacted. Even if he comes back and say is 80% of what he was throwing wise, do you want to pay say $600K per year for that?

[JCon]

Just now, M.Silverback said:

People do seem to be forgetting - surgery to throwing shoulder! Worst thing for a QB. Especially one who didn't have a gun to begin with. He's likely going to be impacted. Even if he comes back and say is 80% of what he was throwing wise, do you want to pay say $600K per year for that?

Can you share the link that shows Nichols is going to get $600k?

[M.Silverback]

59 minutes ago, JCon said:

Who's getting these pay increases that will cause us to release Bighill and let Adams and Jefferson walk? 

Maybe no one. Not saying for sure those players get released or let them walk. Just speculating on who might be considered if say Walters went after some other free agents or trades. Or who Walters will have to decide on in terms of giving increases to and for how much. How much is Jefferson worth to the Bombers? How much can he get in the CFL, assuming he doesn't get an NFL shot? Started with a hypothetical Harris salary question. I just think Harris would be one of the last players Walters would consider in terms of salary dumps.  

57 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I don't see Nichols getting or warranting a raise (based on coming off the injury, not a criticism of his play), b

You could be right. But, player agents. Never heard of one opening negotiations with requesting the same pay or less. Especially given some new comparables out there for QB salaries. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by M.Silverback

[M.Silverback]

10 minutes ago, JCon said:

Can you share the link that shows Nichols is going to get $600k?

Nope. Just speculating based on most of the time players and their agents ask for more money than their current contracts, not less. Nichols is roughly $450K now. A raise makes sense, doesn't it? And second, comparing to QB's roughly in his tier - Harris - making around $600K; Masoli - likely will be; even Franklin who is below Nichols is somewhere around $350K; Fajardo about $450K - which I think as Nichols agent I would argue for more money based on career experience.

So maybe Nichols really wants to be here and takes less than comparables in the market. Is there a link to that?

Edited October 25, 2019 by M.Silverback

[TBURGESS]

25 minutes ago, JCon said:

It sucked when we were 7-2. 

Still ignoring the level of competition Nichols faced I see.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

Still ignoring the level of competition Nichols faced I see.

Still pretending the Esks were bad?

[Jacquie]

On 2019-10-23 at 10:21 PM, Goalie said:

Masoli - hurt himself not in the pocket 

Nichols - again somewhat self inflicted on a simple tackle 

I dunno.. Seems to me QBs got hurt this year either due to the turf monster or taking simple tackles where they landed weird like Nichols.. Basic tackle but bad result. Has 1 been hurt cuz of taking some vicious illegal tackle or is it mainly self inflicted.  

Not sliding, turf monsters etc. 

Zac Collaros took a vicious head shot from Simoni Lawrence who was suspended 2 games for the hit. I think people seem to have forgotten that hit because I don't think any QB would have walked away unscathed from it and yet people talk about Collaros only lasting a few plays as if he was tapped on the head with a feather. Here's the video:

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Jacquie

[17to85]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

It goes deeper than that. 17 went all in on the genius of Joe Mack and needed a scapegoat when the team fell into ruin to save his cred on the site. So he blamed LaPo for those failings. Problem was once LaPo got canned, we lost 52-0 the next game with Mack standing beside Tim Burke, so of course all the failures then switched to the ineptitude of Burke. Having set his precedent, 17 has clung to the "blame LaPo" card with the new regime, regardless of personnel issues, results, or injury factors.

Just my opinion.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. I have known how bad he is since his first go around here. Seriously we've already fired him twice, we didn't need the hat trick that badly.