2019-20 CFL Offseason

[Jpan85]

1 hour ago, Colin Unger said:

There seems to still be no answer to the concern over faked injuries. You know..  A guy like Thomas Miles is listed as the starter at middle linebacker and Bighill is one of the Nationalised Americans.  Miles fakes and injury on the opening kick off and then Bighill replaces him.   What im looking for is the specific details on how this will work. 

Think the rosters being so small that you can’t mess with your 4 DIs by faking a injury.

[Mike]

52 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

Think the rosters being so small that you can’t mess with your 4 DIs by faking a injury.

Why not, though? It doesn’t change anything other than who you dress on O or D, it’s easy to abuse this.

[JuranBoldenRules]

The cap on first contracts signed by Canadians is really low.  A bunch of guys who spent time in the NFL will never come to the CFL.

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Why should the CFL waste it's limited resources on them? Seriously, I can't understand the infatuation some people have with wanting NAT QBs. If one comes along that is good enough, LEGITIMATELY good enough, teams will develop them. Until then best QB available is the only way a QB driven league survives. Screw this idea of welfare roster spots for NAT QBs. That's how teams end up with a Brandon Bridge torpedoing a season in the playoffs.

The reason we haven't had NAT QBs, or at least decent ones, is not because the CFL didn't develop them it's because our minor football. and university programs didn't develop them well enough. Once you get to the pro level you either compete legitimately for a roster spot or you never will. That's the reality. There just isn't enough QB talent in our systems compared to the US.

Most Canadians when they're drafted aren't good enough to play yet the CFL will spend the time & money to develop positions like on the OL, DL, linebackers, receivers, running back & secondary. Why bother, right? just play all Americans. problem solved. Wipe your hands of it. 

[Mike]

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Most Canadians when they're drafted aren't good enough to play yet the CFL will spend the time & money to develop positions like on the OL, DL, linebackers, receivers, running back & secondary. Why bother, right? just play all Americans. problem solved. Wipe your hands of it. 

Serious question - do you think you’d care this much if your son didn’t play QB? 

[Booch]

I don't get the public's clamoring or whining/longing for a Canadian QB...Personally I could care less, and I would never want an inferior player playing just because of ratio..we have enough of that already. I like the game for the game itself, not because it gives a Canadian a chance to play further after college...sure it's nice, but doesn't sell the game for me. Too many times a good player is sent packing to have a roster of guys ..many of whom wouldn't even get starting sniffs in Div 1 NCAA even tho being a "pro"...that's just the facts

Further to that they should have had a provision years ago that a player (import) with a total of 4 consecutive years with same team can become a National, help with team continuity, reward an import for loyalty and also allow them to have more earning power...thats my take on that...and by the way..I am a Canadian former ball player...I want to see the best players available playing within reason and within a ratio...but i would not shed a tear to see the number of true Nationals starting lowered...a lot of talent has walked awy, or refused to come here in the past cause players talk amoung themselves and many Imports have been deterred from coming up after talking to guys who told them not to waste time because they prob get cut so team can keep an inferior Canadian.."cause thats what they do up there"....

[Colin Unger]

13 hours ago, Mike said:

Why not, though? It doesn’t change anything other than who you dress on O or D, it’s easy to abuse this.

And with the extra global roster spots teams will be less worried about "burning" a Canadian special teams guy to get an extra american onto the starting lineups.  I'm sure teams will be more subtle about it than the scenario i suggested.  Could you imagine if Chris Jones was still a head coach with this type of exploit available?

[Tracker]

31 minutes ago, Booch said:

I don't get the public's clamoring or whining/longing for a Canadian QB...Personally I could care less, and I would never want an inferior player playing just because of ratio..we have enough of that already. I like the game for the game itself, not because it gives a Canadian a chance to play further after college...sure it's nice, but doesn't sell the game for me. Too many times a good player is sent packing to have a roster of guys ..many of whom wouldn't even get starting sniffs in Div 1 NCAA even tho being a "pro"...that's just the facts

Further to that they should have had a provision years ago that a player (import) with a total of 4 consecutive years with same team can become a National, help with team continuity, reward an import for loyalty and also allow them to have more earning power...thats my take on that...and by the way..I am a Canadian former ball player...I want to see the best players available playing within reason and within a ratio...but i would not shed a tear to see the number of true Nationals starting lowered...a lot of talent has walked awy, or refused to come here in the past cause players talk among themselves and many Imports have been deterred from coming up after talking to guys who told them not to waste time because they prob get cut so team can keep an inferior Canadian.."cause that's what they do up there"....

My beef with this is that there have been a number of Canadian QBs who have shown promise but have never made it in the CFL. As is obvious the grooming of QB in the Canadian university is not as good as in the US of A and need more time to develop, but they rarely get it. Allowing teams to roster NI quarterback and not have it count against the salary cap or roster numbers might give us a chance to see a NI quarterback become a legit starter.

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Most Canadians when they're drafted aren't good enough to play yet the CFL will spend the time & money to develop positions like on the OL, DL, linebackers, receivers, running back & secondary. Why bother, right? just play all Americans. problem solved. Wipe your hands of it. 

Most NATs when they are drafted are very close to their IMP competition in talent and development EXCEPT at the QB level where IMP QBS are vastly, vastly...did I mention vastly?....superior. For that reason your comparison is null and void. Fact of the matter is that maybe every 5 years a NAT QB in the CIS is good enough to earn a legit shot at the CFL. The others would be a complete waste of time and effort as they would NEVER develop to a point that they would offer a CFL team anything of value. I'm sorry if that's harsh but that's just the reality.

[GCn20]

Just now, Tracker said:

My beef with this is that there have been a number of Canadian QBs who have shown promise but have never made it in the CFL. As is obvious the grooming of QB in the Canadian university is not as good as in the US of A and need more time to develop, but they rarely get it. Allowing teams to roster NI quarterback and not have it count against the salary cap or roster numbers might give us a chance to see a NI quarterback become a legit starter.

CFL teams don't have the money to run a NAT QB welfare system.

[NorthernSkunk]

The CFL needs to do more to show that they are a pro league,  would help get more fans.

[wbbfan]

21 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Most NATs when they are drafted are very close to their IMP competition in talent and development EXCEPT at the QB level where IMP QBS are vastly, vastly...did I mention vastly?....superior. For that reason your comparison is null and void. Fact of the matter is that maybe every 5 years a NAT QB in the CIS is good enough to earn a legit shot at the CFL. The others would be a complete waste of time and effort as they would NEVER develop to a point that they would offer a CFL team anything of value. I'm sorry if that's harsh but that's just the reality.

Dont agree with that at all. Its why a rotational player who didnt live up to his hype like kongbo was a top pick. If they were very close in talent and development the ratio would be a none issue. The difference in polish and skill level between a 4 year cis starter and a guy who rotates for 2 years and starts for 1 year in d1 is big at every position. A prolific 4 year starter from a big school is far more skilled and developed then the best cis players ever. 

The gap has closed from what it used to be, but its still substantial. Virtually any division 1 player with a canadian passport will be taken in the top half of the draft every time. 

Yes the gap is greatest at qb. The advantage canadians have is a familiarity with the game up here. Which helps early but disappears with experience. Meanwhile the imp qb has far higher potential. 

But on the other hand, we are putting serious work into developing world players in this league now. And those guys are just as far out as canadian qbs. I think itd be fine to have 1 free PR spot for a canadian qb. They are canadian, if they start they should count against the ratio. Roster a canadian qb, sure get an extra DI. But its not a serious issue. In the last 30 ish years how many times has a team been in this situation? 2 or 3?

 

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Dont agree with that at all. Its why a rotational player who didnt live up to his hype like kongbo was a top pick. If they were very close in talent and development the ratio would be a none issue. The difference in polish and skill level between a 4 year cis starter and a guy who rotates for 2 years and starts for 1 year in d1 is big at every position. A prolific 4 year starter from a big school is far more skilled and developed then the best cis players ever. 

The gap has closed from what it used to be, but its still substantial. Virtually any division 1 player with a canadian passport will be taken in the top half of the draft every time. 

Yes the gap is greatest at qb. The advantage canadians have is a familiarity with the game up here. Which helps early but disappears with experience. Meanwhile the imp qb has far higher potential. 

But on the other hand, we are putting serious work into developing world players in this league now. And those guys are just as far out as canadian qbs. I think itd be fine to have 1 free PR spot for a canadian qb. They are canadian, if they start they should count against the ratio. Roster a canadian qb, sure get an extra DI. But its not a serious issue. In the last 30 ish years how many times has a team been in this situation? 2 or 3?

 

I have no issue with allowing concessions for a team who chooses to employ a NAT QB. I just scoff at the notion that any CFL team should have to do so. QBs are too valuable a commodity in our league to tell teams that they must employ one. Especially when legitimately there is maybe one or two every decade who is legitimately good enough to earn a roster spot even if they were developed and coddled.

I agree that for the most part IMPs are better players than most NATs but at least at every other position some NATs have demonstrated they can compete and even stand out. At QB all we have seen is disastrous failure by NAT QBs and that won't change any time soon no matter what the CFL does.

I agree with you on the whole global player thing but we have to remember its in it's infancy right now and the end goal is to supply revenues to our league. If having NAT QBs could potentially lead to revenue for CFL teams I might tolerate teams being imposed with having to develop them. However, I think just the opposite would happen. At some point teams would be in injury situations and have to embarrass themselves by playing inadequate QBs.

Edited January 9, 2020 by GCn20

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

I have no issue with allowing concessions for a team who chooses to employ a NAT QB. I just scoff at the notion that any CFL team should have to do so. QBs are too valuable a commodity in our league to tell teams that they must employ one. Especially when legitimately there is maybe one or two every decade who is legitimately good enough to earn a roster spot even if they were developed and coddled.

I agree that for the most part IMPs are better players than most NATs but at least at every other position some NATs have demonstrated they can compete and even stand out. At QB all we have seen is disastrous failure by NAT QBs and that won't change any time soon no matter what the CFL does.

I dont think it should be forced either. But if we are the CFL, and we are forcing global players on every active roster, we gotta do some thing for NI qbs. 

[bigg jay]

 

Thoughts on this?  I personally don't care that certain teams are at a disadvantage in this regard as they have the edge in other areas (territorial exemptions, extra draft picks, etc).

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I dont think it should be forced either. But if we are the CFL, and we are forcing global players on every active roster, we gotta do some thing for NI qbs. 

No we don't. You are comparing apples and oranges. As I stated earlier, the global thing is as much financial as it is about developing players. It's about extending the CFL audience, therefore, it makes sense from a business model. Developing NAT QBs would not generate one extra dollar for the CFL.

Edited January 9, 2020 by GCn20

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, bigg jay said:

 

Thoughts on this?  I personally don't care that certain teams are at a disadvantage in this regard as they have the edge in other areas (territorial exemptions, extra draft picks, etc).

Meh...players in Vancouver and Toronto get sweetheart rent deals from "friends" of the ball club.

[wbbfan]

Just now, GCn20 said:

No we don't. You are comparing apples and oranges.

It isnt though. The ratio exists to keep the cfl canadian. One position right now is in a blind spot. If we are going to go out side of the core fundamental of the cfl (canadians) weve got to deal with the blind spot. Bridge alone has played in 69 cfl games and has more stats then every global player by a lot. 

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

 

Thoughts on this?  I personally don't care that certain teams are at a disadvantage in this regard as they have the edge in other areas (territorial exemptions, extra draft picks, etc).

I think its grasping at straws. We havent seen any lack of FAs going to those cities. They both have their own +s and -s. Just because their markets have gone full crazy doesnt mean every one else needs to compensate them for it. 

[Brandon]

Yes but Toronto and BC have a huge advantage with quality of life compared to Saskatchewan..

[WBBFanWest]

And the biggest welfare recipient in the CFL has it's hand out once again.  Almost 3 million people in Toronto and they can't find 20,000 to come to an Argos game.  No one in TO cares about the Argos of the CFL yet, "we need them".    

[M.Silverback]

15 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

And the biggest welfare recipient in the CFL has it's hand out once again.  Almost 3 million people in Toronto and they can't find 20,000 to come to an Argos game.  No one in TO cares about the Argos of the CFL yet, "we need them".    

I agree that priority number one in Toronto and Vancouver is improve attendance. Not sure how, but, that would be my mandate to everyone involved in both clubs. Housing costs are definitely higher there. But, as many have indicated, there are advantages to attract and retain players that both cities have over Winnipeg, Regina ... Getting a slightly bigger piece of the housing allowance pie doesn't move the needle much in terms of the financial bottom line for either club. It's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. "Sell some f'ing tickets! Get more paying fans! Be closers!!!" 

Edited January 9, 2020 by M.Silverback

[NorthernSkunk]

1 hour ago, NorthernSkunk said:

The CFL needs to do more to show that they are a pro league,  would help get more fans.

I see your perplexed look Bigblue204.......but what some are saying here about ratios and developing players etc etc.. these are some of the reasons I have to listen to from people who like to argue how much better the NFL is compared to the CFL..... 

[max power]

The housing thing seems ridiculous to me.  They get plenty of free agents in Toronto, since that's the only Canadian city a lot of these Americans have ever heard of.  Not to mention the CFL phenomenon of players wanting to sign with their hometown teams. That would be an advantage for Toronto and Montreal I'd guess.

I mean, the reasons that housing is so much more in Toronto and BC are the same reasons they can attract free agents.

But it is the CFL, so they'll probably just randomly gift the Argos a couple free draft picks 3 days before the draft again just because.

[Noeller]

Give Ed Tait a click....some interesting stuff here, as Walters attempts to explain some of these new "rules" as best he can:

https://www.bluebombers.com/2020/01/09/walters-weighs-cfl-meetings/?fbclid=IwAR1p2YdIEWnX9jPQ3eNLosyVzXurg6HWXaSg4DsetBoVWWPqQw0mc6vXPoI