2019-20 CFL Offseason

[DR. CFL]

38 minutes ago, Tracker said:

This is a negotiation- you don't start with your most realistic position right off. You ask for the stars and settle for the moon.

Normally you start into a negotiation with a strategy , a plan. Throwing a turd at a wall and hoping it sticks isn’t much of a plan. You want to make business partners nervous ( because potentially that’s what you are asking of the government), you ask for a ridiculous amount of money, with no detailed explanation outlining how it is to be used. Then to add a little icing to the cake you then acknowledge how poorly historically that business is done. Next up see if you can get registered as a charitable  foundation.

[TBURGESS]

14 hours ago, Tracker said:

This is a negotiation- you don't start with your most realistic position right off. You ask for the stars and settle for the moon.

That's a horrible way to negotiate. Never go in with a number you can't justify. If you do, you get the other sides backs up and it makes it harder, if not impossible, to come to an agreement.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Randy's first offer? Annoys the majority of Canadians.

 

 

[DR. CFL]

1 hour ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Randy's first offer? Annoys the majority of Canadians.

 

 

It might annoy Canadians...it likely scared the crap out of the players. He presented the a CFL as a charity looking for a handout, not like a business organized with a strategy and a plan to move forward.

[Jpan85]

Seems no different than the other huge corporations that have come on hand and knee to the government over the years.

[Mr Dee]

Boy, Randy Ambrosie sure is getting a lot of flak for his approach to asking for Federal support. A lot of it from football fans. In a time where nobody has ever seen stoppage of play because of severe health concerns.

It seems like a business plan is needed. Makes sense. But really a business plan when you cannot guarantee even a percentage of gate revenue? That’s tough. 
And TSN revenue? Where’s that stand?
And the CFLPA? Are they in, and supporting the league, or are they asking difficult questions that few can answer?
I believe they last met on April 24. One of the big issues is clause in the 
Collective agreement.
Quote:
“At the heart of the impasse is interpretation of paragraph 16 of a standard CFL player's contract. It essentially states both sides agree that if the league operation is suspended at any point, all contracts become null and void making players free agents.

So the question remains, could that happen if the '20 season was cancelled due to the novel coronavirus outbreak? Not surprisingly, the CFL believes the clause refers to the league folding and ceasing operations, not cancelling a campaign.”

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/cfl-cflpa-dispute-1.5544489

That’s a tough start. 
I don’t know who’s saying what, and who’s being more adversarial, I wasn’t there. But at that point they didn’t seem to be on the same side.
I’m not taking any side, I just want to see football this year, but there are so many hurdles, including backing the League Commissioner, and helping him put together a plan. 
Hey, that’s like a real football team where everybody works together for a common goal.
I say, enough bickering. 
Let’s get this done.
It’s going to take a lot of work.
And, by the way, do other hard pressed businesses in Canada 🇨🇦 have to go through the same hoops before they get their payout?
 

[17to85]

If the issue is with the word suspends then don't suspend the 2020 season. Postpone it until 2021.

[DR. CFL]

You can play whatever semantics game you like...clearly if it comes down to it the CBA and player contracts are going to come down to legal determination at some point. If you start any process without collective cooperation between the CFL and the CFLPA it certainly doesn’t sent a very positive image to anyone you are asking support from. A TEAM effort clearly wasn’t demonstrated and the perception of that hasn’t been encouraging. Get our act together ! 

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, DR. CFL said:

You can play whatever semantics game you like...clearly if it comes down to it the CBA and player contracts are going to come down to legal determination at some point. If you start any process without collective cooperation between the CFL and the CFLPA it certainly doesn’t sent a very positive image to anyone you are asking support from. A TEAM effort clearly wasn’t demonstrated and the perception of that hasn’t been encouraging. Get our act together ! 

I think Ambrosie should have dealt with the P.A. before going to the Fed. govt. cap in hand, having a whole load of wishy-washy maybe factors involved in the negotiations makes it  much more difficult for the Feds. to approve.   No 2020 season means no income which translates to no pay for the players beyond what has already been handed out, if that means every current player gets cut and they start over with new lineups in 2021 so be it,  the survival of the CFL is at stake.  This is not the time to negotiate with an organization that can't see past the end of their noses, cut the players loose, cut expenses to the bone, then go to the govt.  cap in hand with a realistic request that will help preserve the structure of the league.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I think Ambrosie should have dealt with the P.A. before going to the Fed. govt. cap in hand, having a whole load of wishy-washy maybe factors involved in the negotiations makes it  much more difficult for the Feds. to approve.   No 2020 season means no income which translates to no pay for the players beyond what has already been handed out, if that means every current player gets cut and they start over with new lineups in 2021 so be it,  the survival of the CFL is at stake.  This is not the time to negotiate with an organization that can't see past the end of their noses, cut the players loose, cut expenses to the bone, then go to the govt.  cap in hand with a realistic request that will help preserve the structure of the league.

Not approaching the players before speaking to that committee was inexcusable. They needed to be a united front but instead we found out the players didn't even know he was going to appear. 

[Mr Dee]

Perhaps egos are in evidence all over the place.

Why is it only Ambrosie who gets fingered?

Maybe, just maybe, the CFLPA had something to do with the un-united front.

They have to get together...everybody.

 

[DR. CFL]

2 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Perhaps egos are in evidence all over the place.

Why is it only Ambrosie who gets fingered?

Maybe, just maybe, the CFLPA had something to do with the un-united front.

They have to get together...everybody.

 

If the CFLPA was not consulted before going to the government, and the a CFLPA said the CFL ended discussions you can draw whatever conclusions you like. It would seem that discussions involving  paragraph 16 perhaps spooked the league and created a perceived in pass.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

Ambrosie gets fingered because he's the Man In Charge. The face & the boss of the CFL.  It's certainly not the Board Of Governors. Most of us don't even know who they are.

[DR. CFL]

9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Ambrosie gets fingered because he's the Man In Charge. The face & the boss of the CFL.  It's certainly not the Board Of Governors. Most of us don't even know who they are.

You can either be the head of the snake or the tail being wagged by the dog. The Boss be it actual or perceived is the Boss, gets paid accordingly for that responsibility. Historically having to deal with the Governors hasn’t always been easy. Demonstrated by the frequent turnover in the position, be it voluntarily, or shown the door. In dealing with the government you still need to do your homework, be adequately organized and prepared in making your presentation. The indications are that was not the case. Hopefully the next pitch is a better one. You have one strike against you.

[Mr Dee]

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

On ‎2020‎-‎05‎-‎09 at 8:56 AM, WBBFanWest said:

I look at this list and it breaks my heart.  How could so many commisionners fail to appreciate the fact that there were people with no knowledge and all the answers just waiting to jump in and so them all how wrong they were in their wrongness .  Imagine if they had!

All I know is, without Ambrosie, this would never have happened.

 

[bearpants]

On 2020-05-09 at 7:17 AM, Eternal optimist said:

Ooh, ooh! I love making lists!

J. Donald Crump (1990 - 1991)
 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_League#League_commissioners

Haven't vetted the source because surprised if anyone cares about this lol.

I love sooo much that this is a real person...

[TrueBlue4ever]

On ‎2020‎-‎05‎-‎08 at 8:51 AM, Bigblue204 said:

The ppv would need be to ridiculously expensive to work Unfortunately. 

 

On ‎2020‎-‎05‎-‎08 at 9:48 AM, TBURGESS said:

The PPV idea is fatally flawed.

TSN makes it's money selling ads. The more people who watch the games, the more those ads cost. PPV greatly reduces the number of folks who watch, which in turn, greatly reduces the amount TSN can charge and bring in. They'd be better off putting all the games on TV and giving the CFL the contracted amount of money for the number of games televised.

 

On ‎2020‎-‎05‎-‎08 at 6:08 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

Not enough people would buy.

So I am curious as to why you each see this as the outcome? What kind of hard numbers do you think would be needed? I saw one quote of over $100, if you are talking per game I'm not sure where that figure would come from. I don't think you can compare to a $65 cost for a UFC "event" evening and need to consider a package like NHL Network of NFL Sunday Ticket.

I'm just throwing out numbers with no real heavy in-depth analysis, so please point out all the flaws in my accounting (I'm sure there are many). But the stats I found showed an average weekly 2019 TV audience of around 500,000 fans per CFL game on TV, with increased numbers for bigger games like Canada Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving, and playoffs pushing 1,000,000 viewers, and Grey Cup 3-4 times that. If you charged $10 per game based on 500,000 average TV fans per game, over an 81 game season that's over $400 million. For me, who spends $1600 per year for 2 season ticket seats and parking (and I'm not considering buying drinks, food, or 50/50 tickets), the cost of $810 for an entire year of every CFL game doesn't seem that exorbitant to me given what I'm already paying for just 10 games. And the NFL Sunday ticket is something like $300-400 is it not, just to be able to watch an early and a late afternoon game of your choice, but you are paying for 2 full games of action. Now of course, ratings for free TV do not equate to the same ratings for pay-per-view, but the boost in CFL Draft ratings does show an appetite for the game, and with nothing else live or new on, one would think that this would create a boost in the numbers, especially to those won't have no other option to see a game with fans not allowed in the stands. Yes, one PPV subscription could cover 2-4 people vs. one person, one seat bought at a game, but even if you cut ratings in half and factored in that one PPV purchase covers 2 people, that's 125,000 subscribers per game and over $100,000,000 in the season.

So I'm sure this is way too simplistic, and I'm not trying to be contrarian here. I want to explore what the numbers would be and how people get to the individual figures they think are realistic. How far off are my estimates and why are they off?

[Jpan85]

42 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 

 

So I am curious as to why you each see this as the outcome? What kind of hard numbers do you think would be needed? I saw one quote of over $100, if you are talking per game I'm not sure where that figure would come from. I don't think you can compare to a $65 cost for a UFC "event" evening and need to consider a package like NHL Network of NFL Sunday Ticket.

I'm just throwing out numbers with no real heavy in-depth analysis, so please point out all the flaws in my accounting (I'm sure there are many). But the stats I found showed an average weekly 2019 TV audience of around 500,000 fans per CFL game on TV, with increased numbers for bigger games like Canada Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving, and playoffs pushing 1,000,000 viewers, and Grey Cup 3-4 times that. If you charged $10 per game based on 500,000 average TV fans per game, over an 81 game season that's over $400 million. For me, who spends $1600 per year for 2 season ticket seats and parking (and I'm not considering buying drinks, food, or 50/50 tickets), the cost of $810 for an entire year of every CFL game doesn't seem that exorbitant to me given what I'm already paying for just 10 games. And the NFL Sunday ticket is something like $300-400 is it not, just to be able to watch an early and a late afternoon game of your choice, but you are paying for 2 full games of action. Now of course, ratings for free TV do not equate to the same ratings for pay-per-view, but the boost in CFL Draft ratings does show an appetite for the game, and with nothing else live or new on, one would think that this would create a boost in the numbers, especially to those won't have no other option to see a game with fans not allowed in the stands. Yes, one PPV subscription could cover 2-4 people vs. one person, one seat bought at a game, but even if you cut ratings in half and factored in that one PPV purchase covers 2 people, that's 125,000 subscribers per game and over $100,000,000 in the season.

So I'm sure this is way too simplistic, and I'm not trying to be contrarian here. I want to explore what the numbers would be and how people get to the individual figures they think are realistic. How far off are my estimates and why are they off?

MLB, NFL, NFL and NHL are all around the $200-150 mark. I know I got NFL through Dazn the last couple years it was $20 a month. Also the casual fan is not going to shell out that kind of money to do PPV.

[Mr Dee]

Breaking News - 

Power & Politics @PnPCBC
The federal government offers bridge financing for big businesses hit by COVID-19. 

“These companies provide jobs for millions of Canadians. Canada needs them to stay strong through this crisis,” said Finance Minister @Bill_Morneau. 

This is exactly what Brandon Bridge should still be in the CFL 🧐

 

[Noeller]

 

[DR. CFL]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

 

Did the CFL not realize that this sort of lobbying should have been done before they met with the government? That’s now lobbying works sports fans....you line up all your ducks in a row in advance.

[Mr Dee]

Ticats’ Scott Mitchell breaks down financial impact of COVID-19; importance of playing CFL games in 2020

Q: How do you explain the players not being represented in commissioner Randy Ambrosie’s presentation to the standing committee on finance?

Mitchell: Our CBA didn’t deal with pandemics, so that’s the issue. The reality is that of course the players are going to be part of this, there’s no league without the players, and without a league there is nowhere for the players to play. Some of the rhetoric was unfortunate, the players a little bit more public about things, our method of operations is behind closed doors — there’s plenty of reasons why things happened the way they did. On a going forward basis we need to work together. The players are a fundamental part of the game, and there’s no way we’re going to be successful without both groups working together.

👁‍🗨 Good questions and answers from Scott Mitchell 

https://3downnation.com/2020/05/12/ticats-scott-mitchell-breaks-down-financial-impact-of-covid-19-importance-of-playing-cfl-games-in-2020/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[MC]

On 2020-05-10 at 3:58 PM, 17to85 said:

If the issue is with the word suspends then don't suspend the 2020 season. Postpone it until 2021.

This is brilliant!  We play the 2020 season in 2021. the 2021 season in 2022, and we play the 2022 season now!  There will definitely be a vaccination for COVID in 2022!  Therefore, we start the 2022 season now and everyone can play because they have been vaccinated - and so have the fans.  Also, the TV money should be more for the 2022 season, so the teams will all make money!

Problem fixed.  the 2022 Bomber training camp can start next Sunday.  The only problem is that Andrew Harris will be retired and won't be able to play.  But our 2020 draft picks will all be seasoned vets, so our Canadian content will still be fine.

[Mr Dee]

That’s extraordinary 2020 vision..