2019-20 CFL Offseason

[Geebrr]

I'm not against moving on without Nichols.

I generally dislike the lack of respect and disregard the role Nichols played here in providing solid/stable production to our franchise gets.

As a season ticket holder, somebody who actually pays to see games (yes I would still get them if I didn't live here, its $250/ticket  FFS) he was I instrumental in making it fun to go to games again. 

I love the guy for what he did, and he is a genuinely good guy.

Don't be surprised if he goes somewhere else and immediately makes them better.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Geebrr

[The Ghost of Mike Kelly]

If not Nichols, then who do we go for. Arbuckle? Small sample size. Masoli? Like Nichols had a bad injury—also too small sample size? I’ve heard it said he’s the next Casey Printers in terms of one season wonders. Only time will tell. 

This organization likes to grow from within. Between Streveler and McGuire, chances are our future GC winning QB is one of them. So if all we need is a bridge to hand the ball of to them for when they are eventually ready to lead, I don’t see anyone else more suited for that temporary role than Matt Nichols. Collaros, sure. But I dont think its worth losing our 1st over, and you get the sense he wants to head home to Ontario. 

[Eternal optimist]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Mike Kelly said:

This organization likes to grow from within. Between Streveler and McGuire, chances are our future GC winning QB is one of them. So if all we need is a bridge to hand the ball of to them for when they are eventually ready to lead, I don’t see anyone else more suited for that temporary role than Matt Nichols. Collaros, sure. But I dont think its worth losing our 1st over, and you get the sense he wants to head home to Ontario. 

To me, this was very apparent during the parade.

[B-F-F-C]

6 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

To me, this was very apparent during the parade.

The Argos better beef up their o-line.  

[bearpants]

2 hours ago, Geebrr said:

This Nichols conversation is beyond boring.

Some people want to ignore/downplay anything positive he has brought to the franchise, and focus on his flaws.

 

To me, the biggest difference between Zach  and Matt is Zach’s ability to recognize and evade pressure and extend plays... there were more than a few plays that Zach completes where Matt would’ve taken a sack or thrown the back away... otherwise they’re very similar...

Is the switch to Zach the thing that put this team over the top from contender to champion?... possibly... would this team still have won it all with a fully healthy Matt Nichols?... also quite possible...

seems pointless to beat it to death...

[Tracker]

31 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

I'm not against moving on without Nichols.

I generally dislike the lack of respect and disregard the role Nichols played here in providing solid/stable production to our franchise gets.

As a season ticket holder, somebody who actually pays to games (yes I would still get them if I didn't live here, its $250/ticket  FFS) he was I instrumental in making it fun to go to games again. 

I love the guy for what he did, and he is a genuinely good guy.

Don't be surprised if he goes somewhere else and immediately makes them better.

"Better" isn't necessarily "good", and that is the problem with Nichols.

[NorthernSkunk]

12 minutes ago, bearpants said:

 

Is the switch to Zach the thing that put this team over the top from contender to champion?... possibly...

 

It appears that is exactly what happened.

[GCJenks]

Could any of our opinion of what Matt can and cannot do could be a result of the system? Could he have been following Lapos coaching with the check downs and throw the ball away?

Possibly Zach looked at Lapp and said “hell no, that’s not who I am” and forced Lapp to open it up some? The play call in Calgary could have been a check down or throw away to set up the field goal and Zach ignored it and scrambled and tossed to the end zone for a almost miracle result. 
 

This team doesn’t play for miracles, it takes what it can and gets ready to do it again. Did I find this team more exciting to watch with Zach? Yes but as a fan I have to come to grips with the same thing the team has. 
 

For The W!!!

It’s all about the wins...

[Eternal optimist]

5 minutes ago, GCJenks said:

Possibly Zach looked at Lapp and said “hell no, that’s not who I am” and forced Lapp to open it up some? The play call in Calgary could have been a check down or throw away to set up the field goal and Zach ignored it and scrambled and tossed to the end zone for a almost miracle result.

I don't care how good Collaros played, players that do this stuff get benched. It undermines the coaches, and undermines the rest of the team if you don't all buy into the system/game plan. ZC definitely had leverage you speak of for the short stint he was here, but to say without merit (or proof) that he was that defiant to his OC is just laughable.

[GCJenks]

Just now, Eternal optimist said:

I don't care how good Collaros played, players that do this stuff get benched. It undermines the coaches, and undermines the rest of the team if you don't all buy into the system/game plan. ZC definitely had leverage you speak of for the short stint he was here, but to say without merit (or proof) that he was that defiant to his OC is just laughable.

I’m not saying he was defiant of his OC but that he and his OC worked together to match his personal tendencies and that his personal nature took over when under fire and he created something great. 

[Mr Dee]

44 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

To me, this was very apparent during the parade.

Why?
Did he get off at Toronto Street?

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Mike Kelly said:

If not Nichols, then who do we go for. Arbuckle? Small sample size. Masoli? Like Nichols had a bad injury—also too small sample size? I’ve heard it said he’s the next Casey Printers in terms of one season wonders. Only time will tell. 

This organization likes to grow from within. Between Streveler and McGuire, chances are our future GC winning QB is one of them. So if all we need is a bridge to hand the ball of to them for when they are eventually ready to lead, I don’t see anyone else more suited for that temporary role than Matt Nichols. Collaros, sure. But I dont think its worth losing our 1st over, and you get the sense he wants to head home to Ontario. 

We may lose a first rounder but think about this. The 9th player picked is nowhere near as good as the first because we're talking U Sports here & not the NCAA. That pick may help us or it may not. I think it would be more depth than anything else. So, I don't think it's critical that we keep it. I'd hope Collaros would want to stay here because he finally won a Grey Cup with us, likes O'Shea & the culture of the team. He'd be going back to a complete **** show in Toronto. And having to compete with MBT who I think the Argos really like. 

[blue_gold_84]

2 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

He won because he was a member of the team..... 

You mean it takes a team to win a championship...?!

2 hours ago, Goalie said:

We won the cup for the first time in lots of our lifetimes but yup.. This place is toxic. 

Beyond. It's ******* pathetic reading some of the drivel here the last few days.

2 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

It will be more toxic in here next year if Nichols ends the season with a 1 - 4 lifetime record in the playoffs.

Hopefully, you'll get "booted" from here well before then and won't have to deal with it.

[AKAChip]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We may lose a first rounder but think about this. The 9th player picked is nowhere near as good as the first because we're talking U Sports here & not the NCAA. That pick may help us or it may not. I think it would be more depth than anything else. So, I don't think it's critical that we keep it. I'd hope Collaros would want to stay here because he finally won a Grey Cup with us, likes O'Shea & the culture of the team. He'd be going back to a complete **** show in Toronto. And having to compete with MBT who I think the Argos really like. 

This isn’t always true. Very often the top pick busts because there’s pressure to select a guy who is safe with less risk of being in the NFL a long time. That’s how we end up with the Shomari Williamses and Faith Ekakities and Shane Richardses of the world. Usually there are a number of good guys left at 9 because the desperate teams don’t want guys with high flight risk. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, AKAChip said:

This isn’t always true. Very often the top pick busts because there’s pressure to select a guy who is safe with less risk of being in the NFL a long time. That’s how we end up with the Shomari Williamses and Faith Ekakities and Shane Richardses of the world. Usually there are a number of good guys left at 9 because the desperate teams don’t want guys with high flight risk. 

True which only goes to show the CFL Draft is a throw of the dice at the best of times. The first could be  bad pick for the Argos or a bad one. Same with the 9th. 

[Booch]

Collaros plays a different game than Matt..he actually sucks at the check down and short pass..look how many times he missed Harris in his starts..and other short ones too..and ones he made were not pretty..he's more an intermediate to long passer

Even is Sask his short game sucked

Matt can make those throws too..when asked to but wasnt alot because we were very successful in the short game..and it allowed us to control the ball and clock.. so why deviate

But...we deviated with Zack because we game planned to his strengths.. and it worked out..If Matt hadnt got hurt we woulda hosted WF...and won...and we also woulda won the cup as Hamilton had no answer to our defense..and  Nichols/Strev combo with Harris in beast mode would have scored the same..if not more

Edited December 1, 2019 by Booch

[JuranBoldenRules]

12 minutes ago, Booch said:

Collaros plays a different game than Matt..he actually sucks at the check down and short pass..look how many times he missed Harris in his starts..and other short ones too..and ones he made were not pretty..he's more an intermediate to long passer

Even is Sask his short game sucked

Matt can make those throws too..when asked to but wasnt alot because we were very successful in the short game..and it allowed us to control the ball and clock.. so why deviate

But...we deviated with Zack because we game planned to his strengths.. and it worked out..If Matt hadnt got hurt we woulda hosted WF...and won...and we also woulda won the cup as Hamilton had no answer to our defense..and  Nichols/Strev combo with Harris in beast mode would have scored the same..if not more

Nichols had real trouble handling pressure these past two seasons.  It changed how defenses schemed against us.  Blitz and don't lose track of Harris, do that and our passing game was dead in the water.  To me that was the big difference between Nichols and Collaros, Collaros got the ball out quicker when he read pressure, and he also moved very well in the pocket where Nichols was usually quite stationary and not getting around or by anyone.

I find it hard to extrapolate how Nichols played vs Hamilton the past 2-3 seasons into a Grey Cup win, but we'll never know.  Our D certainly had lots of trouble with Hamilton in the past couple seasons but handled them in the Grey Cup game.

[bigg jay]

43 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We may lose a first rounder but think about this. The 9th player picked is nowhere near as good as the first because we're talking U Sports here & not the NCAA.

You've said this a couple times now and I'm not sure why?  There were only 3 USports players picked in the 1st round last season and 4 the year before.  The number of NCAA players picked would be higher too, if not for the NFL.

[JuranBoldenRules]

3 hours ago, Geebrr said:

We've had one of the highest scoring offences for years.

Also, all Trevor Harris' yards matter for **** when you can't put the ball in the endzone 

We've also dominated field position and turned the ball over at a record pace since Nichols has been our QB.  It all goes together.

Is Nichols one of the 10 best QB's in the CFL in 2020?  I don't think so.  That's why I'd move on.  How much should we take away from some good games against the 3 teams that didn't play the playoffs and some mostly poor ones against Hamilton and Calgary?

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

You've said this a couple times now and I'm not sure why?  There were only 3 USports players picked in the 1st round last season and 4 the year before.  The number of NCAA players picked would be higher too, if not for the NFL.

How can I not say it? The Draft is less of a sure thing than any other pro league. Due to the true lack of competition in U Sports with maybe only 3 or 4 really good teams, the competitive discrepancy between conferences in Canada & the NFL poaching the best players. 

[SpeedFlex27]

6 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

We've also dominated field position and turned the ball over at a record pace since Nichols has been our QB.  It all goes together.

Is Nichols one of the 10 best QB's in the CFL in 2020?  I don't think so.  That's why I'd move on.  How much should we take away from some good games against the 3 teams that didn't play the playoffs and some mostly poor ones against Hamilton and Calgary?

How can you say he's not Top 10? That is just a ridiculous statement. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

How can you say he's not Top 10? That is just a ridiculous statement. 

Nichols would be battling Fajardo and MBT for the 9th-10th spot on my QB power ranking in terms of guys I'd want to build around in 2020.

I wouldn't mind keeping Nichols to backup/mentor/buttress Streveler, but we're spinning our wheels with Nichols at the very best.  We aren't getting past the Calgary's and Hamilton's on Nichols arm IMO.  Keep in mind Nichols now has a rebuilt shoulder in his throwing arm.  Remember how Khari returned from that injury?

 

[Geebrr]

16 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

We've also dominated field position and turned the ball over at a record pace since Nichols has been our QB.  It all goes together.

Is Nichols one of the 10 best QB's in the CFL in 2020?  I don't think so.  That's why I'd move on.  How much should we take away from some good games against the 3 teams that didn't play the playoffs and some mostly poor ones against Hamilton and Calgary?

Not top 10?

Come on, Broooo

[SpeedFlex27]

22 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Nichols would be battling Fajardo and MBT for the 9th-10th spot on my QB power ranking in terms of guys I'd want to build around in 2020.

I wouldn't mind keeping Nichols to backup/mentor/buttress Streveler, but we're spinning our wheels with Nichols at the very best.  We aren't getting past the Calgary's and Hamilton's on Nichols arm IMO.  Keep in mind Nichols now has a rebuilt shoulder in his throwing arm.  Remember how Khari returned from that injury?

 

I don't know about your qb rankings but it needs to be updated. I'll be the first to admit that Nichols didn't put up a lot of passing yards in the 8 or 9 games he played but this was a run first team & at times very predictable on what we would do on first down. Defenses knew Harris off tackle was coming on first downs so they keyed on it. And we didn't go vertical when we passed like other teams. We had more of a horizontal, ball control passing attack which meant more short yardage throws all over the field. We were not a quick strike team under Nichols. Still, he was something like 7-2 when he got hurt. Nichols was a very good game manager & didn't turn the ball over which gave us a field position advantage most games. Field position wins games & we did. Some qbs put up a lot more yardage than Nichols but didn't win like Harris in Edmonton, MBT in Toronto & Reilly in BC. They couldn't get the job done. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[AKAChip]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't know about your qb rankings but it needs to be updated. I'll be the first to admit that Nichols didn't put up a lot of passing yards in the 8 or 9 games he played but this is a run first team & at times very predictable on what we would do on first down. Defenses knew Harris off tackle was coming on first downs so they keyed on it. And we didn't go vertical when we pass like other teams. We had more of a horizontal, ball control passing attack which means more short yardage throws all over the field. We were not a quick strike team under Nichols. Still, he was something like 7-2 when he got hurt. Nichols was a very good game manager & didn't turn the ball over which gave us a field position advantage most games. Field position wins games & we did. Some qbs put up a lot more yardage than Nichols but didn't win like Harris in Edmonton, MBT in Toronto & Reilly in BC. They couldn't get the job done. 

What job are you referring to when you say didn't get the job done? Harris beat the same teams Nichols did outside of Calgary. MBT had an even worse team than Edmonton and didn't have the luxury of facing the pathetic Toronto defence. Beyond that, no one is arguing that either of these guys are particularly good. Just don't discount how bad BC, Ottawa and Toronto were this year and when five of your seven wins are against those three teams, it doesn't tell you a hell of a lot about your own quality of play.