WF - Bombers @ Riders

[Booch]

1 minute ago, Geebrr said:

MLB is generally the first thing the QB is looking to make a read on, no? 

generally, and the motion to see who covers who to determine if zone, or a man coverage...thats where we messed up Bo because we showed the usual tendencies..then flipped it when ball was snapped...I think he saw zone...but it morphed to man and it messed him right up

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 hours ago, gcn11 said:

We got good pressure on Fajardo in all 3 games. His legs helped him out immeasurably. The RIders OL is not good at all and were HUGE beneficiaries of Fajardo's legs. Without his legs I could see us with a snowman of sacks.

We just have to guard against his patented blind side roll out. Have seen it enough to know that that is his only consistent escape plan. Come in with control and don't overcommit, and he could spin his way into a big loss on a sack.

[TrueBlue4ever]

18 minutes ago, Booch said:

I am actually sensing a Willie interception this game...not neccessarily a pick six...but a crowd and team deflating one...hopefully complete with back flip

With the way Collaros has thrown a few into heavy coverage that have been dropped by the opposition, and looking at Fajardo's slower tosses in practice to guard against re-aggravating his injury, I have a hunch we WILL see a pick-6 this weekend. Just a gut call, praying it is the Blue and Gold running one back.

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

We just have to guard against his patented blind side roll out. Have seen it enough to know that that is his only consistent escape plan. Come in with control and don't overcommit, and he could spin his way into a big loss on a sack.

Pretty sure with his iffy health he won't be doing too much blind side stuff and you could see him turtle more...straing to not get dragged down, or running to escape and again meeting up with resistance will be all she wrote if he truly has oblique issues...either way I ho[e he is playing regardless...he won't be the reason we lose....errors and stupidity by ourselves will be

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

MLB is generally the first thing the QB is looking to make a read on, no? 

Depends a bit on the team you are facing. Pre snap it might be the S then the hbs if a team is tipping what coverage they are playing. Or it might be who ever is covering a slot in motion, Or a dominant pass rushers position. Post snap it might be a look off for a timing route or many variables.

Generally the easiest way to read a D is from the S-hb-mlb-line. 

[Tiny759]

6 minutes ago, Booch said:

generally, and the motion to see who covers who to determine if zone, or a man coverage...thats where we messed up Bo because we showed the usual tendencies..then flipped it when ball was snapped...I think he saw zone...but it morphed to man and it messed him right up

The qb would also have to find the mlb pre snap too right? He’s gotta figure if he’s coming on a blitz, spying or taking the rb off the snap. Unless I’m way off base on that assessment 

[Geebrr]

8 minutes ago, Booch said:

generally, and the motion to see who covers who to determine if zone, or a man coverage...thats where we messed up Bo because we showed the usual tendencies..then flipped it when ball was snapped...I think he saw zone...but it morphed to man and it messed him right up

Some self scouting paying off , I imagine? 

[Booch]

The smart QB when going up to the line usually locates the MLB..and depth of the db's immediately, they will then send motion and see who goes where, and what it causes the MLB to do if they are showing heat...and now when you have a lot of ENDS playing stand-up it's really hard to determine who is gonna drop off..especially if its blended coverage...thats also why you see the receivers always do that run to line and stop...then re-set...they are trying to get the defense to show their cards and move...

[TrueBlue4ever]

Booch, am I wrong that jamming at the line seems to be largely a non-thing in the CFL? Is it solely because of the unlimited pre-snap motion from the receivers, too hard to jam them when they are on the run like that? Or am I not seeing what I think I am not seeing?

[Geebrr]

I personally see them stealing a lot of what we like to do, creating misdirection running plays and end arounds, trying to prevent us from crashing down.

Getting Moore the ball as s runner and in space, taking the occasional shot down field.

Gotta be under control, and patient, let Fajardo get in his own head. 

 

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Booch, am I wrong that jamming at the line seems to be largely a non-thing in the CFL? Is it solely because of the unlimited pre-snap motion from the receivers, too hard to jam them when they are on the run like that? Or am I not seeing what I think I am not seeing?

it's not a teams standard base, but teams use it, more than you would think...but it's also film work and study and knowing tendancies...Sask when pressure is shown brings Evans or Moore in along the line when they call out the key for their hot read, so when you know they are doing that thats when film work pays off and you slide your sam or hb in with him and jam or chip him off the line, or have the mlb scrape over...The Qb knows he is going to that spot so he is either gonna miss...throw a pick...or realize and pull it down and has minimal options...either has to escape ouuta there...get swarmed under and eat it or just throw it away.

The other receivers aren't expecting let alone looking for a pass and most times are trying to set up blocking

[Geebrr]

Rider fans : Android Harris! Steroids! 

Marcus Thigpen: 😟😬

 

[Bigblue204]

24 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

Rider fans : Android Harris! Steroids! 

Marcus Thigpen: 😟😬

 

Thigpen in my opinion is actually another example or maybe more proof that Harris didn't actually use roids knowingly. Thigpen was having a really good year, was really explosive and was a threat basically every time he got the ball. He gets caught, admits to it, and his production completely falls off. Unless I'm wrong but I don't remember him being nearly as effective after getting caught. Harris on the other hand...well we know what he's done before and after.

[Tracker]

38 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Thigpen in my opinion is actually another example or maybe more proof that Harris didn't actually use roids knowingly. Thigpen was having a really good year, was really explosive and was a threat basically every time he got the ball. He gets caught, admits to it, and his production completely falls off. Unless I'm wrong but I don't remember him being nearly as effective after getting caught. Harris on the other hand...well we know what he's done before and after.

De Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.

[Noeller]

Interesting that the Riders are 5-0 coming off a bye since 2017.......not that it means much. We were undefeated earlier this year coming off a bye, and then got our **** handed to us by a far superior team. Samesies for Riders on Sunday...

[Mr Dee]

 

 

[JCon]

Farjy will be able to run because they'll shoot him up with pain killers. What he can't overcome though, will be the strength to throw if his oblique is hurt. 

 

There are meds for the pain but there are no meds for the weakness. 

[Booch]

3 hours ago, JCon said:

Farjy will be able to run because they'll shoot him up with pain killers. What he can't overcome though, will be the strength to throw if his oblique is hurt. 

 

There are meds for the pain but there are no meds for the weakness. 

Not of meds available either for the sucks aspect as well...

[TheTecno]

17 hours ago, 66 Chevelle said:

let's make this real simple... you are QB1, you've got 9 games to play, 7 of those 9 with be against either Group A or Group B...

Group A: Edmonton, Ottawa, BC, Toronto

Group B: Calgary, Sask, Montreal, Hamilton

which group do you select and why?

I'll bite.  You failed to specify when this decision is supposed to be made.  Of course in hindsight now that the season is over Group A is weakest.  However, look at everyone's standings predictions on the other forum in the pre-season.  Almost everyone had EDM and BC high up.  Most had SSK and MTL extremely low.  OTT was a toss-up, I pegged them as 2nd in the E, many thought they'd be crap with MTL.  I knew BC would be the sewer, but most people had them middle-of-the-pack or better.

As the other guy said, OTT had just beaten the invincible CGY when we faced them.  That made them top of the E power rankings.  A team that thinks they are good (or alternately doesn't know they are bad) are still very dangerous.  They still have this magic thing called morale.  When we played OTT, BC and EDM they all still thought they were great.  Well, BC was getting a clue, but it hadn't sunk in yet.  And we played EDM with T.Harris, and as we've seen in the playoffs, T.Harris EDM is actually quite dangerous.

To sum, ask the question in week 2 and I'd say it's a wash as I'd (me personally) have said EDM/OTT good, CGY/HAM good.  That's 2 good teams in each group.  Go back and look at your pre-season picks and I bet your picture wouldn't be as clear either.

[GCn20]

15 hours ago, Booch said:

generally, and the motion to see who covers who to determine if zone, or a man coverage...thats where we messed up Bo because we showed the usual tendencies..then flipped it when ball was snapped...I think he saw zone...but it morphed to man and it messed him right up

Yea we had a kind of hybrid zone/man, a lot like Jones used to run, and it messed him right up.

[GCn20]

10 hours ago, JCon said:

Farjy will be able to run because they'll shoot him up with pain killers. What he can't overcome though, will be the strength to throw if his oblique is hurt. 

 

There are meds for the pain but there are no meds for the weakness. 

You use your obliques more in running than you do in throwing. Especially when you are trying to change direction quickly. He won't have the core power needed for escapability. The Bombers will find out early that he is incapable of running out to the flats or throwing on the run. This will give big advantages to our defence. It's his bread and butter. Fajardo is a below average pocket passer. His whole game is his legs and quick accurate release under pressure. An oblique tear will really hamper both those things even if he can somehow manage to be pain free.

Edited November 15, 2019 by gcn11

[blue_or_die]

4 hours ago, TheTecno said:

I'll bite.  You failed to specify when this decision is supposed to be made.  Of course in hindsight now that the season is over Group A is weakest.  However, look at everyone's standings predictions on the other forum in the pre-season.  Almost everyone had EDM and BC high up.  Most had SSK and MTL extremely low.  OTT was a toss-up, I pegged them as 2nd in the E, many thought they'd be crap with MTL.  I knew BC would be the sewer, but most people had them middle-of-the-pack or better.

As the other guy said, OTT had just beaten the invincible CGY when we faced them.  That made them top of the E power rankings.  A team that thinks they are good (or alternately doesn't know they are bad) are still very dangerous.  They still have this magic thing called morale.  When we played OTT, BC and EDM they all still thought they were great.  Well, BC was getting a clue, but it hadn't sunk in yet.  And we played EDM with T.Harris, and as we've seen in the playoffs, T.Harris EDM is actually quite dangerous.

To sum, ask the question in week 2 and I'd say it's a wash as I'd (me personally) have said EDM/OTT good, CGY/HAM good.  That's 2 good teams in each group.  Go back and look at your pre-season picks and I bet your picture wouldn't be as clear either.

Just because teams took a while to prove they weren't as good or bad as they turned out to be doesn't make them any more weak/strong at the time.

For example, when we beat BC in Week 1, I remember thinking it was an enormous win given it was expected BC with Reilly would do well in the standings. That turned out to be wrong as the season played out and teams showed who they really were. BC wasn't any better a team in W1 vs W21 (save for the Reilly injury) and therefore our W1 win wasn't as impressive as initially thought.

I am talking about this in a vacuum, of course, as teams can make personnel changes that affect their identity and compete level.

Edited November 15, 2019 by blue_or_die

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, blue_or_die said:

Just because teams took a while to prove they weren't as good or bad as they turned out to be doesn't make them any more weak/strong at the time.

For example, when we beat BC in Week 1, I remember thinking it was an enormous win given it was expected BC with Reilly would do well in the standings. That turned out to be wrong as the season played out and teams showed who they really were. BC wasn't any better a team in W1 vs W21 (save for the Reilly injury) and therefore our W1 win wasn't as impressive as initially thought.

I am talking about this in a vacuum, of course, as teams can make personnel changes that affect their identity and compete level.

Teams can, and often do, play stretches of very good football and very poor football all within the confines of a season. It is not a static thing. You cannot say that Edmonton in week 3 was the same team as Edmonton in week 15. You can't say Ottawa in week 2 was the same Ottawa team as week 15 either. You can't even say that Winnipeg now is the same team as Winnipeg 6 weeks ago. Things change. Momentum comes and goes, and teams are not playing at the same level all season long.

At the time we played Ottawa they were rolling and playing very good football. When we played Edmonton the first time they were on fire as well. Momentum and confidence are massive in football.

[17to85]

6 minutes ago, gcn11 said:

Momentum and confidence are massive in football.

absolutely this. Momentum is one of the most important things in sports of all types. 

[NorthernSkunk]

Big Chris = Big momentum...... complimented by ZC's experience......can't wait for Sunday !