QB

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, M.O.A.B. said:

I hope they'll change that in the off-season. See how all the starting QBs fell thru injury through out this season. 

We can only hope. It would have been chaotic this season without the third rostered quarterbacks.

[J5V]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

For all the praise people are heaping on collaros he hasn't done anything Nichols wasn't doing. Then you add in his soft head and collaros is simply a hired gun for the playoffs.

Yeah, we all saw Nichols scramble and throw tight-spiraled daggers to the corner of the end zone with pinpoint accuracy like this all the time ...

[17to85]

Now post the clip from Sunday where collaros had Harris on the check down for a good play but held onto the ball too long and by the time he got it to him the play was doa. One play doesn't define anyone. Collaros has done some good things, but Nichols has too, and streveler. But people wanna hang off collaros nuts because he's the new guy and the team is 2-0 since he got playing time.

[Brandon]

Nichols was playing behind an o-line that gave him plenty of steamboats.   Had Nichols stayed healthy I don't see the same type of success as he caves as soon as he faces pressure.

Nichols is good on the deep ball so I'd say they are the same in that regard. 

Everything else though Collaros is better.   Way more mobile,  doesn't get rattled and emotional like Nichols.  He can also hit a receiver in stride which Nichols can not for the life of him. Outside of the deep ball,  the short and mid range passes it feels like the receivers for Nichols have to dive and leap to catch.   

That being said next season I'd rather they go with McGuire and Streveler and move on....  I'd only take Collaros back at a reduced salary.

[17to85]

See this is what I mean... collaros isn't generating any more yards per game than Nichols did AND throws more dangerous balls. Yet people act like he is amazaballs out there. He is running the blue bombers offense, just like matt Nichols did, just like streveler does (though more running from streveler)

[Brandon]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

See this is what I mean... collaros isn't generating any more yards per game than Nichols did AND throws more dangerous balls. Yet people act like he is amazaballs out there. He is running the blue bombers offense, just like matt Nichols did, just like streveler does (though more running from streveler)

Nichols was playing with an o-line that gave him a tonne of time in the back field.  He was also playing against weaker teams.  

Nichols whenever feeling pressured folded instantly and when things wouldn't go his way he rarely dug himself out of the hole. 

Nichols can only thrive if everything else is running smoothly,  Collaros as that one play showed can at least make something out of nothing.

Next season I'm all for replacing LaPo,  but Nichols at this point is way to injured and prone to injuries so why bother keeping him.,   I'm pretty sure McGuire can throw 3 yard dump offs at a fraction of the salary.

[Tiny759]

42 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Nichols was playing with an o-line that gave him a tonne of time in the back field.  He was also playing against weaker teams.  

Nichols whenever feeling pressured folded instantly and when things wouldn't go his way he rarely dug himself out of the hole. 

Nichols can only thrive if everything else is running smoothly,  Collaros as that one play showed can at least make something out of nothing.

Next season I'm all for replacing LaPo,  but Nichols at this point is way to injured and prone to injuries so why bother keeping him.,   I'm pretty sure McGuire can throw 3 yard dump offs at a fraction of the salary.

Nichols, collaros, and strev are all playing with the same online. 

[Brandon]

1 minute ago, Tiny759 said:

Nichols, collaros, and strev are all playing with the same online. 

No they haven't?  The play of the o-line has dropped as the season has gone on.   Also different guys ,  Neufeld,  Gray, Couture, Speller etc....

[Tiny759]

4 minutes ago, Brandon said:

No they haven't?  The play of the o-line has dropped as the season has gone on.   Also different guys ,  Neufeld,  Gray, Couture, Speller etc....

Tackles have stayed the same all season. Nichols played with gray, speller, couture, and drew on the inside. Strev and collaros have played neufeld, couture, speller and drew. So I guess I’m wrong on the sense that gray and neufeld. Have been switched. Also I would disagree that the online play has gone done.

[Brandon]

I guess it also equated with the fact we played a lot more easier teams early on compared to later. 

Either way....  both Nichols and Collaros are very fragile in their own way..  I'd like to start a guy where if he does get sacked I'm not holding my breath and assuming that he's out for the year. 

[17to85]

Maybe nichols and his quick reads and release made the ol look better?

[Deiter Fan]

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Now post the clip from Sunday where collaros had Harris on the check down for a good play but held onto the ball too long and by the time he got it to him the play was doa

Change the name in your comment from Collaros to Nichols and I know the words to that song by heart. "Nichols" and "quick release" are not exactly synonymous from where I sit. Although, considering I've seen it with all 3 of our QBs I'm left wondering how much of that is the fault of our OC.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Deiter Fan

[Brandon]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Maybe nichols and his quick reads and release made the ol look better?

Not for this season and last,  in the earlier games he was holding onto the ball for a long time and kept checking down to Harris.   If anything I'd say he was to slow in his reads.    This is why in the game threads several folks were frustrated that he never challenged anyone mid range.   It was more frustrating because when he would go deep for his two to three times he usually had success.  

[66 Chevelle]

9 hours ago, BBlink said:

We were very effective when we had Nichols/Streveler. Now we look pretty good with Collaros/Streveler. IMO Nichols is smarter and makes quicker/better reads but there's something to say about escapability and pocket presence that Collaros has over Nichols.

you say and think that, but were we?  after all, the first 9 games of the season, and the only 9 that Nichols played, 7 of those 9 games were against 4 teams that a) finished as the bottom 2 of each division, and b) didn't make the playoffs...

but regardless, unless there is a change at OC and will have to settle once again for a Nichols/Streveler led team... I don't see us being able to attract a proven QB like Masoli while Lapo is the OC... same reason why we can't attract 'big name' receivers, nobody wants to play in the 'Dink & Dunk' system... at least not by choice... 

[SpeedFlex27]

10 hours ago, TheAardvark said:

The Argos paid him the entire time he was there, at full rate, just not on SMS.  The 3rd rounder doesn't change to a first if we sign him, they add a first.  Have to wonder if Collaros playing for the Bombers affects the pick the Riders got from the Argos...  is "significant time" just regular season?

Collaros is good, but Nichols is the man here if healthy, and he wants to be here.  If we have teh same lineup next year, you can bet Streveler gets more reps.  Which wouldn't be bad for Nichols either.  IF he accepts the role.

Only if MOS is back. Otherwise, I can see a qb change or upgrade if a new coaching staff is in place. 

[66 Chevelle]

IF we had to settle for Nichols again next season,  it would make a huge difference if we have a new OC... Nichols, with the right game plan, can be a very effective QB, one capable of winning playoff games... under Lapo there seems to be an underlying hint of Lapo not trusting Nichols as evident by the play calling and the apparent need to constantly have Harris on the wing to dump the ball off to...

honestly feel that the offense would be better served by Harris staying around the pocket and blocking instead of bailing and waiting on the dump pass... sure, he's open, and there is a reason why... the whole defense is in front of him, he's 3 yds behind the LOS and in most cases the defense is less than 5 yds from the LOS... they'll give up 2 or 3 yds by allowing that completion... much better for them to pressure Nichols and get him to bail on the vertical, down field game and pass the ball to Harris for meaningless yds...  because when it's 2nd and 8, a pass completion for 2 yards, while great for your stat line, still equals punt...

there is a reason why a QB can have the fewest throwing yards in the league but have the high QB efficiency rating... fewest INTs... best TD to INT ratio... but you're probably going to lose more games than your peers...

[WinnipegGordo]

14 hours ago, TheAardvark said:

I guess if Zach is unsigned after the draft, and we sign him, we can't really give him a draft pick that is already spent...

I can't see resigning Zach with that price tag.  Especially if Nichols is back and healthy.  Nichols at a lower rate, Streveler at an increase, and the two headed monster running more 50/50, not 85/15 like this year...

You're prolly joking but the draft is only a couple of weeks before training camp. Does a team really want to wait that long to determine their QB situation?

Besides, the 1st round pick doesn't have to be from 2020. If the Bombers signed Zach after the draft the Argos would get a pick from a future draft.

Also if the Bombers do sign Zach it looks like Walters and the Argos can negotiate what draft year the 1st rounder will come from. If the Bombers win the Grey Cup this year that pick from 2020 would be 9th over-all.

[17to85]

8 hours ago, Brandon said:

Not for this season and last,  in the earlier games he was holding onto the ball for a long time and kept checking down to Harris.   If anything I'd say he was to slow in his reads.    This is why in the game threads several folks were frustrated that he never challenged anyone mid range.   It was more frustrating because when he would go deep for his two to three times he usually had success.  

you are blaming nichols for the limits of the offense. There was a play in the calgary game, Collaros was looking and looking and looking for a guy to throw to intermediate but it wasn't there and by the time he checked down to harris they'd closed that down, but if he'd checked down to harris sooner it would have been a solid gain for Harris. 

 

Nichols would have understood that and dumped it off sooner, which people here hate, but it's the way this offense is designed to run. 

[Tiny759]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

you are blaming nichols for the limits of the offense. There was a play in the calgary game, Collaros was looking and looking and looking for a guy to throw to intermediate but it wasn't there and by the time he checked down to harris they'd closed that down, but if he'd checked down to harris sooner it would have been a solid gain for Harris. 

 

Nichols would have understood that and dumped it off sooner, which people here hate, but it's the way this offense is designed to run. 

There seems to be a lot of inconsistencies on this board. Nichols is bad, Lapo is bad, wrs are good and Nichols is bad, strev is good is wrs are bad, strev is awful, strev is the second coming of Jesus.

Considering that strev was only averaging about one less pass or so to Harris per game Shows your right that this is the way this offence is designed.
 

[Marshall]

15 hours ago, Brandon said:

Nichols was playing behind an o-line that gave him plenty of steamboats.   Had Nichols stayed healthy I don't see the same type of success as he caves as soon as he faces pressure.

Nichols is good on the deep ball so I'd say they are the same in that regard. 

Everything else though Collaros is better.   Way more mobile,  doesn't get rattled and emotional like Nichols.  He can also hit a receiver in stride which Nichols can not for the life of him. Outside of the deep ball,  the short and mid range passes it feels like the receivers for Nichols have to dive and leap to catch.   

That being said next season I'd rather they go with McGuire and Streveler and move on....  I'd only take Collaros back at a reduced salary.

This is pretty much spot on IMO. Collaros has only played Calgary so we've yet to see how he fairs against other teams. Nichols has struggled againts Calgary. The only game he played them this year, he had 177 yards passing and 0 Tds. We won 28-26 with Arbuckle at QB for Stamps. Grant scored 2 TDs on returns.

One thing I see with Collaros that is much better (besides accuracy) than our other QBs is his escapability when the pocket collapses. Even Strevy has issues staying vertical with first contact when dropping back to pass, although when he runs north/south its a different story.

[Jesse]

14 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Maybe nichols and his quick reads and release made the ol look better?

Better delete that before the ghost of gbill comes back to haunt us.

[17to85]

39 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Better delete that before the ghost of gbill comes back to haunt us.

I'll tell him he's still a ***** if he comes back.

[TheAardvark]

7 hours ago, WinnipegGordo said:

You're prolly joking but the draft is only a couple of weeks before training camp. Does a team really want to wait that long to determine their QB situation?

Besides, the 1st round pick doesn't have to be from 2020. If the Bombers signed Zach after the draft the Argos would get a pick from a future draft.

Also if the Bombers do sign Zach it looks like Walters and the Argos can negotiate what draft year the 1st rounder will come from. If the Bombers win the Grey Cup this year that pick from 2020 would be 9th over-all.

Do they still owe the pick if he is not extended by FA?  If they don't "re-sign" him before he becomes a FA, then I think that the transaction becomes complete.  It can't be "if the Bombers ever sign him to a deal"...  it has to end at FA...

[Fatty Liver]

2 minutes ago, TheAardvark said:

Do they still owe the pick if he is not extended by FA?  If they don't "re-sign" him before he becomes a FA, then I think that the transaction becomes complete.  It can't be "if the Bombers ever sign him to a deal"...  it has to end at FA...

Hard to say, but when they mention "future considerations" the trade boundaries get a bit murky and almost any circumstance can be agreed upon.

[WinnipegGordo]

24 minutes ago, TheAardvark said:

Do they still owe the pick if he is not extended by FA?  If they don't "re-sign" him before he becomes a FA, then I think that the transaction becomes complete.  It can't be "if the Bombers ever sign him to a deal"...  it has to end at FA...

WINNIPEG — The Winnipeg Blue Bombers have acquired quarterback Zach Collaros and a 2020 fifth round draft pick from the Toronto Argonauts in exchange for a 2020 third round draft pick and a conditional first round pick as early as 2020 should Collaros re-sign with Winnipeg.

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/10/09/bombers-acquire-zach-collaros-argos/

Why does the deal have to end at FA?