QB

[TheAardvark]

2 minutes ago, WinnipegGordo said:

WINNIPEG — The Winnipeg Blue Bombers have acquired quarterback Zach Collaros and a 2020 fifth round draft pick from the Toronto Argonauts in exchange for a 2020 third round draft pick and a conditional first round pick as early as 2020 should Collaros re-sign with Winnipeg.

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/10/09/bombers-acquire-zach-collaros-argos/

Why does the deal have to end at FA?

Because when a player "re-signs" with a team, I take it to mean he signs while still under contract.   Once they hit free agency, its not really a re-signing, but a FA signing...

[Stickem]

31 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Hard to say, but when they mention "future considerations" the trade boundaries get a bit murky and almost any circumstance can be agreed upon.

Exactly.......Future considerations could mean anything from a pick to a neg. lister......As far as the draft pick goes it could be moved down the road and if T.O. sees an advantage in that they most likely would....I don't see this club finishing in the basement therefore giving them a prime pic in the near future HOWEVER you can bet Pinball wants to build something tangible in a hurry...AND  that's where the murky part comes in

Edited November 12, 2019 by Stickem

[JCon]

3 minutes ago, TheAardvark said:

Because when a player "re-signs" with a team, I take it to mean he signs while still under contract.   Once they hit free agency, its not really a re-signing, but a FA signing...

Right, and when they hit FA, they can sign anywhere. The deal is basically is the Bombers want to re-sign him before the FA window, it costs them. The Argos are just trying to make it really expensive for the Bombers during their negotiating window before FA. 

Same as it's going to cost if want to negotiate with Masoli, Arbuckle, etc before the FA window opens. You'll need to "pay" their club for that right. 

 

Of course, it could be written into the agreement that if Collaros signs at anytime before such-and-such a date, the Argos are owed something but probably not. 

[Stickem]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

 

 

Of course, it could be written into the agreement that if Collaros signs at anytime before such-and-such a date, the Argos are owed something but probably not. 

Be nice if we knew ALL of the particulars in that agreement BUT that's not going to happen...GM's like to keep things that way so they always have an out

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Stickem said:

Be nice if we knew ALL of the particulars in that agreement BUT that's not going to happen...GM's like to keep things that way so they always have an out

Yeah, I feel like the CFL is missing a level of engagement by not providing these sorts of details. Contracts too! Fans eat this stuff up. 

Injuries are a bit different because that involves medical information but they could certainly disclose more. 

[Jesse]

18 minutes ago, TheAardvark said:

Because when a player "re-signs" with a team, I take it to mean he signs while still under contract.   Once they hit free agency, its not really a re-signing, but a FA signing...

I don't think you can expect or hope for an end-around here. 
 

If Collaros is signing with us next year (which I don't for a minute expect), it's going to cost us that first rounder.

[Tiny759]

6 minutes ago, JCon said:

Yeah, I feel like the CFL is missing a level of engagement by not providing these sorts of details. Contracts too! Fans eat this stuff up. 

Injuries are a bit different because that involves medical information but they could certainly disclose more. 

That’s a big difference I find from nfl to cfl. NFL players don’t care if the contract amount gets reported. CFL players seem to have a fit if their amount gets reported.

[Stickem]

2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I don't think you can expect or hope for an end-around here. 
 

If Collaros is signing with us next year (which I don't for a minute expect), it's going to cost us that first rounder.

How do we know that Collaros is  even interested in us long term ......As a fa he can go anywhere and he would be a sought after commodity especially IF ...big if...we win the Cup....He does carry baggage ...but is that baggage being over blown and will concussions definitely occur...Popp in T.O. seen something in him (pretty good gm) and did not want to let him go...We pried him loose and it would be very prudent on our part to examine keeping him before we let him wander off...He's 31 I believe...we could have a couple of good shots at the Cup in the next few years...Will it/could it be with Collaros...Something for management to ponder for sure

[Fatty Liver]

17 minutes ago, JCon said:

Right, and when they hit FA, they can sign anywhere. The deal is basically is the Bombers want to re-sign him before the FA window, it costs them. The Argos are just trying to make it really expensive for the Bombers during their negotiating window before FA. 

Same as it's going to cost if want to negotiate with Masoli, Arbuckle, etc before the FA window opens. You'll need to "pay" their club for that right. 

 

Of course, it could be written into the agreement that if Collaros signs at anytime before such-and-such a date, the Argos are owed something but probably not. 

I think adding "future considerations" also means negotiating in good faith and it doesn't always strictly follow obvious rules, in this case whether the Bombers sign Collaros before or after the F.A. door opens, if they want to maintain good relations with Pinball they will have to pay for Zach's full agreed upon value and won't try to cheat him on a technicality.  As business deals go, Walters definitely owes Pinball one, he saved their butts.

[Jesse]

4 minutes ago, Stickem said:

How do we know that Collaros is  even interested in us long term ......As a fa he can go anywhere and he would be a sought after commodity especially IF ...big if...we win the Cup....He does carry baggage ...but is that baggage being over blown and will concussions definitely occur...Popp in T.O. seen something in him (pretty good gm) and did not want to let him go...We pried him loose and it would be very prudent on our part to examine keeping him before we let him wander off...He's 31 I believe...we could have a couple of good shots at the Cup in the next few years...Will it/could it be with Collaros...Something for management to ponder for sure

I don't think we're going to sign him for multiple reasons. Nor do I want to (count me in as someone who doesn't think he has a full season of football in him anymore).

But I think the most likely scenario sees him going back to TO.

[Stickem]

1 minute ago, Jesse said:

I don't think we're going to sign him for multiple reasons. Nor do I want to (count me in as someone who doesn't think he has a full season of football in him anymore).

But I think the most likely scenario sees him going back to TO.

I don't think that's a definite...He'll go where the best deal is as any fa would....We could consider him a very good asset.....then again we could think his concussion issues aren't worth the risk...I predict it's going to be a tough call...especially IF we take all the marbles this year...Is the first round pic worth signing him for 2020...Mr. Walters and company will make that call

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Stickem said:

I don't think that's a definite...He'll go where the best deal is as any fa would....We could consider him a very good asset.....then again we could think his concussion issues aren't worth the risk...I predict it's going to be a tough call...especially IF we take all the marbles this year...Is the first round pic worth signing him for 2020...Mr. Walters and company will make that call

We should trade his rights back to the Argos for our 3rd round pick. 

[Stickem]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

We should trade his rights back to the Argos for our 3rd round pick. 

Pinball might just want him back...BUT considering guys like Arbuckle and Masoli probably will be available...hmmmm he'll probably keep the deal the way it is...Hard to say

[Fatty Liver]

19 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I don't think we're going to sign him for multiple reasons. Nor do I want to (count me in as someone who doesn't think he has a full season of football in him anymore).

But I think the most likely scenario sees him going back to TO.

Signing Collaros also means rejecting Nichols, I'm not sure they're prepared to do that unless he foolishly tries to play hardball in contract negotiations.  I'm thinking Nichols is feeling a bit tense about the playoff success the team is having without him.

[66 Chevelle]

22 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Pinball might just want him back...BUT considering guys like Arbuckle and Masoli probably will be available...hmmmm he'll probably keep the deal the way it is...Hard to say

this is where our interests should be if we're going to pursue a QB...

[Jesse]

27 minutes ago, Stickem said:

I don't think that's a definite...He'll go where the best deal is as any fa would....We could consider him a very good asset.....then again we could think his concussion issues aren't worth the risk...I predict it's going to be a tough call...especially IF we take all the marbles this year...Is the first round pic worth signing him for 2020...Mr. Walters and company will make that call

I have to disagree with most of this. I personally don't think it's a hard decision at all. We can't look past his injury history. We can't sacrifice a draft pick. And we obviously can't force him to sign when he has a strong history out East.

I'm simply not interested and I don't think he or Walters will be either..

[17to85]

Are we still pretending Masoli is a bonafide qb? 

[66 Chevelle]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Are we still pretending Masoli is a bonafide qb? 

Magic 8 Ball says 'affirmative'

[TBURGESS]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Are we still pretending Masoli is a bonafide qb? 

Better question is are the Bombers still pretending that Nichols is a bonafide QB? Collaros has outplayed him in both games so far.

Edited November 12, 2019 by TBURGESS

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, 66 Chevelle said:

this is where our interests should be if we're going to pursue a QB...

I agree...if we go outside the org thats where i set my sights...and I'd lean to Massoli...Resign Strev who basically gets to start season you would think as he prob won't be a legit 100 percent to start season.. and you can park his SMS hit on the 6 game...Gives Strev a chance to take reigns and show he has progressed more, and if he hasn't really yet you have Massoli to take over at some point and have a nice QB combo again...

Almost certain as well that if the league sticks with the 2 rostered QB rule that there will be some type of concession for a 3rd stringer on roster somehow as you cant expect teams to only have 2 guys

[GCn20]

51 minutes ago, Stickem said:

How do we know that Collaros is  even interested in us long term ......As a fa he can go anywhere and he would be a sought after commodity especially IF ...big if...we win the Cup....He does carry baggage ...but is that baggage being over blown and will concussions definitely occur...Popp in T.O. seen something in him (pretty good gm) and did not want to let him go...We pried him loose and it would be very prudent on our part to examine keeping him before we let him wander off...He's 31 I believe...we could have a couple of good shots at the Cup in the next few years...Will it/could it be with Collaros...Something for management to ponder for sure

The answer to your concussion question is that it is definitely inevitable he is concussed again.

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Better question is are the Bombers still pretending that Nichols is a bonafide QB. Collaros has outplayed him in both games so far.

Has he? By what metric?

Edited November 12, 2019 by gcn11

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Better question is are the Bombers still pretending that Nichols is a bonafide QB? Collaros has outplayed him in both games so far.

Collaros has definitely played better than Nichols in the last two games. Nichols hasn't even completed a pass since August. 

[GCn20]

26 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Signing Collaros also means rejecting Nichols, I'm not sure they're prepared to do that unless he foolishly tries to play hardball in contract negotiations.  I'm thinking Nichols is feeling a bit tense about the playoff success the team is having without him.

He might be nervous but he shouldn't be. Some openings for QBs this offseason.

[66 Chevelle]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

I agree...if we go outside the org thats where i set my sights...and I'd lean to Massoli...Resign Strev who basically gets to start season you would think as he prob won't be a legit 100 percent to start season.. and you can park his SMS hit on the 6 game...Gives Strev a chance to take reigns and show he has progressed more, and if he hasn't really yet you have Massoli to take over at some point and have a nice QB combo again...

Almost certain as well that if the league sticks with the 2 rostered QB rule that there will be some type of concession for a 3rd stringer on roster somehow as you cant expect teams to only have 2 guys

and I think you could sell Streve  on the notion that he needs to really elevate his passing game in order to become a true starting QB1 and keep him signed in Winnipeg... get him on a new 2 or 3 year deal and with the expectation that if he progresses the team should be his by then...