2019-20 Grey Cup Champs Off-season discussion.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

Ya, except no one is saying that.  Poor trolling attempt there.

Was TBurgess kidding or serious?

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2020-05-19 at 12:18 PM, Mr Dee said:

I remember a time when we were hooped because our O-line would be below par after losing Chungh and Goosen and only new guys to replace them..

Ah, those were the days..

Brave new world. 

[SpeedFlex27]

46 minutes ago, Booch said:

Extended care homes...and healthcare facilities are a different beast than a training camp...and yeah...you can have staff who interact with team exercise protocol to avoid getting...or risking infection...just the same as all the healthcare professionals who work with actual infected do...again...you keep saying all this physical contact...and at this point in a camp and slowly introducing things there needs to be no contact...not sure how you don't get that point...it can be done...and is done anyway to a great extent

I believe the MB Health dude who does his pressers has said the "close prolonged" contact thing..as well as others but I am not gonna go scrounging around the Net to find it for you...have better things to do

I guess I am more an optimist than pessimist as well as a problem solver solution maker..guess thats why I ended up in Engineering. and if everything was halted..stopped..delayed due to all the naysayers...risk fearers..and just people or groups saying it couldn't be done..then nothing would function..evolve or get solved.

Also it depends what surface it's on to adress one of your concerns...and its mainly surfaces that a football player isn't excessively touching...and again...like I said...if protocol is put in place where you get tested before stepping on field...when you arrive 2 weeks prior to camp..and at start of camp and are virus free...you cant give it to someone else..or they you when you are sitting in a team meeting...running sprints...doing one on ones.....and fact of the matter..virus and disease t

like this are here..aint't going away and gonna be others...world has to keep spinning and people cant hide in a box forever....you are afraid...worried..stay home...everyone else well I guess they choose to live their life...is that cold..callous..ignorant of fats..who knows...but this ****..and others like it will be ongoing for years..upon years...deal with it..work with it..do things to minimize it...be smart...but hiding out and shutting down all parts of society isn't the answer and sooner than later people are gonna just say eff it....it's already happening anyway.

I was a big supporter of the lockdown but that was in March & April & now we're going into June. It was only supposed to last 2 weeks. Now it's over 2 months. I try to  stay away from shopping centres & large stores like Costco be4cause a lot of people are stupid & selfish when it comes to social distancing. I used to shop at Superstore but that was before the pandemic. I now shop at my local grocery store. I pay a bit more because of it but to me it's still worth it.

You're right that we can't stay in lockdown mode forever & the economy has to open up.  If someone is scared to go out then stay home. We may not be ready for large CFL & NHL crowds, concerts, etc yet. I agree that teams can isolate if they must. It all depends how badly a league's officials, management, coaches & players want to do it. If you make $6 million a year then no question you would. If you make $60,000 in the  CFL you may not want to.

[rebusrankin]

[TBURGESS]

58 minutes ago, Booch said:

Extended care homes...and healthcare facilities are a different beast than a training camp...and yeah...you can have staff who interact with team exercise protocol to avoid getting...or risking infection...just the same as all the healthcare professionals who work with actual infected do...again...you keep saying all this physical contact...and at this point in a camp and slowly introducing things there needs to be no contact...not sure how you don't get that point...it can be done...and is done anyway to a great extent

I believe the MB Health dude who does his pressers has said the "close prolonged" contact thing..as well as others but I am not gonna go scrounging around the Net to find it for you...have better things to do

I guess I am more an optimist than pessimist as well as a problem solver solution maker..guess thats why I ended up in Engineering. and if everything was halted..stopped..delayed due to all the naysayers...risk fearers..and just people or groups saying it couldn't be done..then nothing would function..evolve or get solved.

Also it depends what surface it's on to adress one of your concerns...and its mainly surfaces that a football player isn't excessively touching...and again...like I said...if protocol is put in place where you get tested before stepping on field...when you arrive 2 weeks prior to camp..and at start of camp and are virus free...you cant give it to someone else..or they you when you are sitting in a team meeting...running sprints...doing one on ones.....and fact of the matter..virus and disease t

like this are here..aint't going away and gonna be others...world has to keep spinning and people cant hide in a box forever....you are afraid...worried..stay home...everyone else well I guess they choose to live their life...is that cold..callous..ignorant of fats..who knows...but this ****..and others like it will be ongoing for years..upon years...deal with it..work with it..do things to minimize it...be smart...but hiding out and shutting down all parts of society isn't the answer and sooner than later people are gonna just say eff it....it's already happening anyway

Extended care homes and training camps are both places where you put a bunch of people together and take care of them through outside people. In my example, all staff wear PPE and take the necessary precautions. If anything, they have to be even more careful than people taking care of professional athletes because messing up can have way worse consequences.

You can do anything other than the physical stuff from home, over the internet. Same goes for anything a coach can write on a white board or a blackboard. Players can do as many mental reps as they want to without actually being there. Players can work out at home. The physical stuff that involves other players is the only thing that they need to be at the facility for. The less interaction with other people the better it is for everyone.

I've never heard the MB health dude and that's a pretty poor descriptor anyway. Considering you keep replying to me, I'd guess you really don't have anything better to do.

Optimism doesn't mean anything when it comes to a pandemic, neither does being a problem solver or an engineer. Just a bunch of red herrings.

Excessive touching is now what you want me to believe? (I think your serious so I'll laugh even harder) When you arrive 2 weeks prior to camp and you are tested, that just means you don't have Covid-19 on that day. 2 weeks of perfect self quarantine mean you most likely still don't have it, but there are no guarantee. You want me to also believe that every player, coach and support staff will also follow perfect quarantine protocol. That's what has to happen before no one inside can give or get the virus. Now add in all the folks who come and go as they please, and the idea that no one could possibly get the virus goes out the window.

Look at the German soccer league who quarantined and then played in front of an empty stadium. 2 of their players tested positive in the first weekend of play, proving that quarantining teams together isn't so perfect after all.

I'm not afraid of getting the virus. I do all the grocery shopping for the family because I'm the one who is at the least risk. I'm in my 60's so my chance of dying is greater than 20 and 30 somethings, but I'm not worried about dying if I do get the virus because the odds are still over 95% that I'll survive. My fear is that I get the virus and pass it along to someone who can't handle it, like one of my 90+ year old in laws or my wife who is immunosuppressed.

I take the proper precautions. That's what any thinking adult should do. Wear a mask.  Not only to protect yourself but to protect others in case you're sick and you don't even know it. Players and coaches and all the support staff should wear masks to, for the same reasons. They aren't facing known cases of Covid-19 on a daily basis like front line so I don't think they should wear full PPE, although the Dr's and training staff probably should and will.

If covidiot's were only putting their selves at risk, then it wouldn't matter to me, but they're putting other people at greater risk without giving them a second thought. Who cares of someone elses parent or grandparent dies. I want to go out and get my hair cut, have a few drinks, and watch a football game.

[Noeller]

39 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I was a big supporter of the lockdown but that was in March & April & now we're going into June. It was only supposed to last 2 weeks.

Not to derail this thread, but who said two weeks?? More like 2 years! I mean, it's INSANE that people are already wanting to just go back to normal. Everyone needs to get used to this..it's not going away any time soon. 

[TBURGESS]

[SpeedFlex27]

It's your choice to sit at home forever. What if a vaccine is never developed? Will you stay indoors the rest of your life? We as Canadians have done our share to flatten the curve but it can't go on indefinitely.  Yes, I see how Americans are handling this with Trump & his Republican governors in charge. I shake my head when I see thousands of Americans flock to beaches everywhere not social distancing.  That's what happens when you have no leadership at the top like they do in the USA. I would never put myself in that situation of flocking to the beach or join thousand in demonstrating as we've seen down there but it doesn't mean I won't go out up here in our country. 

So far in Canada  even in Ontario & Quebec, our hospitals are not overrun. Doctors aren't having to make life & death decisions. It's nothing at all like it was predicted to be. Our economy is being torn apart on all fronts by this mandatory lockdown. Businesses are being destroyed. Lives ruined. People that need elective surgery were cancelled while hospitals sit empty. I'm for opening the economy. We're not ready yet for big sporting or concert events, though. I'm of the opinion that with the Covid virus among us, we're all going to get it at some point anyway.

The frame on my glasses broke a couple of days ago & I had to buy new ones. Luckily, I kept my old pair as backup. I had an eye test today & saw an Opthamologist. They gave me a mask to wear & I bought new lenses & frames & didn't feel threatened at all. It had to get done & I went out. Life goes on unless you don't want it to. Just my 2 cents now back to the topic at hand. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by SpeedFlex27

[Eternal optimist]

Am I the only one enjoying discounted stocks whilst this whole thing is going on? As a millennial, it gives me false hope of possibly retiring (even without a pension) before like... 80.

[SpeedFlex27]

8 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Am I the only one enjoying discounted stocks whilst this whole thing is going on? As a millennial, it gives me false hope of possibly retiring (even without a pension) before like... 80.

If you make 80. 

[Eternal optimist]

13 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If you make 80. 

I'd rather burn out than fade away, I guess.

[SpeedFlex27]

45 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

I'd rather burn out than fade away, I guess.

As you age, the fade away option seems much better. I used to say I'd rather die young & have a great looking corpse. I stopped saying that around 1994. 

[M.O.A.B.]

3rd Alexander in the roster (or 4th if we count Alexandre as the same). Signed by the Bombers today.
 

 

[Mr Dee]

5 hours ago, M.O.A.B. said:

3rd Alexander in the roster (or 4th if we count Alexandre as the same). Signed by the Bombers today.

Well, one of those Alexanders might turn out to be great..

[Eternal optimist]

I'm just glad the CFL had the foresight to realize SSK will be so bad they won't be in the Grey Cup for 2020, give some other teams a chance to host...

[Booch]

14 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Extended care homes and training camps are both places where you put a bunch of people together and take care of them through outside people. In my example, all staff wear PPE and take the necessary precautions. If anything, they have to be even more careful than people taking care of professional athletes because messing up can have way worse consequences.

You can do anything other than the physical stuff from home, over the internet. Same goes for anything a coach can write on a white board or a blackboard. Players can do as many mental reps as they want to without actually being there. Players can work out at home. The physical stuff that involves other players is the only thing that they need to be at the facility for. The less interaction with other people the better it is for everyone.

I've never heard the MB health dude and that's a pretty poor descriptor anyway. Considering you keep replying to me, I'd guess you really don't have anything better to do.

Optimism doesn't mean anything when it comes to a pandemic, neither does being a problem solver or an engineer. Just a bunch of red herrings.

Excessive touching is now what you want me to believe? (I think your serious so I'll laugh even harder) When you arrive 2 weeks prior to camp and you are tested, that just means you don't have Covid-19 on that day. 2 weeks of perfect self quarantine mean you most likely still don't have it, but there are no guarantee. You want me to also believe that every player, coach and support staff will also follow perfect quarantine protocol. That's what has to happen before no one inside can give or get the virus. Now add in all the folks who come and go as they please, and the idea that no one could possibly get the virus goes out the window.

Look at the German soccer league who quarantined and then played in front of an empty stadium. 2 of their players tested positive in the first weekend of play, proving that quarantining teams together isn't so perfect after all.

I'm not afraid of getting the virus. I do all the grocery shopping for the family because I'm the one who is at the least risk. I'm in my 60's so my chance of dying is greater than 20 and 30 somethings, but I'm not worried about dying if I do get the virus because the odds are still over 95% that I'll survive. My fear is that I get the virus and pass it along to someone who can't handle it, like one of my 90+ year old in laws or my wife who is immunosuppressed.

I take the proper precautions. That's what any thinking adult should do. Wear a mask.  Not only to protect yourself but to protect others in case you're sick and you don't even know it. Players and coaches and all the support staff should wear masks to, for the same reasons. They aren't facing known cases of Covid-19 on a daily basis like front line so I don't think they should wear full PPE, although the Dr's and training staff probably should and will.

If covidiot's were only putting their selves at risk, then it wouldn't matter to me, but they're putting other people at greater risk without giving them a second thought. Who cares of someone elses parent or grandparent dies. I want to go out and get my hair cut, have a few drinks, and watch a football game.

Seeing as you asked who and how and whatnot...it's in media now what I was referring to, and what I had been told via players who have talked with CFLPA Reps and this was conveyed to them..all of whom are on board...among the group of leaders and Doctors in this Medical Committee of experts to create a health protocol tailored for a sports league to play is Perhaps the most impressive and accomplished member of the group is Dr. Lawrence Steinman, a professor at Stanford University and former immunology department chair, who like Dr. Anthony Fauci is a member of the National Academy of Sciences and National Academy of Medicine.

For any sports including the CFL to play in a hub city model or otherwise, strict guidelines would have to be followed. According to Madani: What got the CFL committee’s interest spiked was Dr. Steinman’s suggestion of a particular antibody test that is FDA-registered and takes only 15 minutes to provide a result. Stringent testing would help create a safe inner CFL bubble.

“Once in the inner zone, the assumption is the player is COVID-free until they go to the outside world. Nothing is official because nobody has made anything official yet” said Dr. Copeland.

“I’m very cautiously optimistic from a medical standpoint that the CFL can do this.”

[Stickem]

11 hours ago, M.O.A.B. said:

3rd Alexander in the roster (or 4th if we count Alexandre as the same). Signed by the Bombers today.
 

 

Looking for that next Winston Rose.....good start

[TBURGESS]

Thanks for quoting the 3rd down nation article. A quick google search shows that Dr Steinman is involved with Questcap, who has developed an unreviewed Covid-19 antibody test that by their own announcement "Results from antibody testing should not be used as the sole basis to diagnose or exclude SARS-CoV-2 infection or to inform infection status". Antibodies are present if you've had Covid-19 or Cov-2. That doesn't mean you are immune to the disease.

Isn't putting everyone together in one place 24 hours a day the very definition of "Close prolonged contact"?

The whole idea of a training camp is to prepare for the season, so everyone is by default talking about what would happen in the regular season.

 

 

 

[Mr Dee]

 

 

[M.Silverback]

9 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

 

 

Thanks for posting this. Really interesting article. However the CFL decides to proceed, lots of questions and obstacles to address. Many will come up that they didn't even anticipate. It's mentioned briefly in the article, but, I would think that the whole global player combine/draft idea will be squashed for this season. Ambrosie did mention a while ago that he hoped to do a mini version before the season. But, it will be hard enough trying to get Americans up here. Can't imagine the CFL is going to try to fly in players from all over the world, most of whom will never make a roster.

[Booch]

19 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Thanks for quoting the 3rd down nation article. A quick google search shows that Dr Steinman is involved with Questcap, who has developed an unreviewed Covid-19 antibody test that by their own announcement "Results from antibody testing should not be used as the sole basis to diagnose or exclude SARS-CoV-2 infection or to inform infection status". Antibodies are present if you've had Covid-19 or Cov-2. That doesn't mean you are immune to the disease.

Isn't putting everyone together in one place 24 hours a day the very definition of "Close prolonged contact"?

The whole idea of a training camp is to prepare for the season, so everyone is by default talking about what would happen in the regular season.

 

 

 

i quoted something so you could see what I was referring to as y9ou like to dispute,,argue and go against what people say or think if it doesn't fit your opinion 100 percent

I also actually wasn't relying on the 3rd Down article actually...there is more in depth discussion on it on other sites..I'll let you go look for yourself as you seem to be up on all things current and set in your opinion...I guess though experts..physicians,,etc..etc should consult you though first before moving forward as you seem to have thinks to debunk everything...it's not just the CFL looking into this, or organizing committees to do the same thing...and if you read other articles which explain methodology about it...different layers of access and testing...the facility being the "inner circle/covid free" zone maybe you will not be such a critic...but I doubt that highly...and again to reiterate..."close prolonged contact" with an infected person...not ones who are not...mot sure how that statement/idea flies by your intellect

I get it..you disagree...don't like it...and you have your reasons...But the world and things are gonna open up..wether you like it or not and you have every right to complain and be against it, and if so..stay home and just ignore it then..

[Jpan85]

It just does not need a vaccine to be developed for things to open up either. A reliable treatment for the virus would also allow for a opening of things like mass gatherings. 

[Jpan85]

Good write up on WR Coach Kevin Bourgoin

[TBURGESS]

We've both made our minds up. You're basing your opinion on a Dr. who suspiciously has something to sell that addresses the issue. I'm basing my opinion on the CDC and the Mayo clinic who have nothing to sell to address the issue.

Training camps will start up because Politician's do what's popular rather than follow the science. The CFL and the CFLPA will find people who agree because they need the season to start to make any money from football this year. They'll choose to ignore what doesn't work for them. The teams will have the players sign off going back to work and will get the players to sign a daily waiver to say they aren't infected so they can't sue.

I asked for where you were getting your info from. You replied with the 3rd down article. I accepted it even though it doesn't speak about "close prolonged contact" and noted that 24/7 is close prolonged contact anyway. Now you're saying there's more in depth info elsewhere without providing any sources.

I never suggested that the world isn't going to open up again. Of course it will.

[M.Silverback]

11 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

 I'm basing my opinion on the CDC and the Mayo clinic who have nothing to sell to address the issue.

I don't want to wade into this debate, but, just to clarify, the NBA is funding research conducted by the Mayo Clinic on better finger stick test for immunity antibodies. Good news for everyone. But, the Mayo Clinic certainly is a for profit business, that will team up with interested funding parties when beneficial. And the CDC ... not an agenda-less entity let's say.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/5/20/21264742/nba-coronavirus-testing-covid-19