2020 Thread

[M.Silverback]

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but, another update from Dave Naylor and Farhan Lalji. 

https://www.tsn.ca/video/naylor-some-within-cfl-concerned-clock-will-run-out-on-potential-2020-season~2012795

Not sure the issue of guaranteed contracts can be settled. Too much risk on both sides, as Naylor and Lalji point out. Players understandably want some guarantees if they disrupt their lives, come to the bubble, and COVID stops the season. And owners understandably don't want to pay out guaranteed salaries if the season stops in a year where they're already losing a ton of money. 

I really miss the CFL, but, I don't think it can happen this year. 

 

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

On ‎2020‎-‎08‎-‎06 at 10:38 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm all for Wade Miller being our new Commissioner. He knows what teams need from the league from a financial & marketing perspective as a Team president whereas Randy Ambrosie really hasn't figured it out yet, it would seem. That & I believe he would bring a less hostile perspective to player relations & CBA negotiations. Dump Ambrosie & bring in Miller as long as Bombers replace him with someone who can fill his shoes as Bomber President. He may also hopefully have some ideas as to how to grow the game here in Canada. Especially Toronto & Vancouver. 

 

On ‎2020‎-‎08‎-‎10 at 2:15 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

I know of Miller's reputation as a hard ass. Thing is, if he was that hard to work for I believe that Walters & O'Shea would have left years ago. Especially that 2014-16 era where the team was struggling.  Yet no one quit on Miller. 

 

On ‎2020‎-‎08‎-‎11 at 3:44 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

Employees come & go everyday. Especially if they're unhappy at their job. Doesn't take much for a boss to act like a **** to push someone out. When they leave it's always the boss's fault. Sounds like Miller is a hard ass & a perfectionist & maybe even a bit of a control freak but when it comes to the Bombers, in the seven years Miller, Walters & OS have never left so it could be he has to act differently when he deals with them. 

Speed, your argument in defence of Miller seems to be a bit of a moving target, so let's get back to your original point that people disagree with.

You think Miller will be less hostile than Ambrosie in player negotiations. The counter-point is that he won't be because his personality is one of "my way or the highway". You then shift and say if he was hard to work for, people would have quit on him. That misses the point. In CBA negotiations, the players and their association are not working for him, they are working with him at best, or negotiating against him if spun in a more negative way. You then agree that he is a hard ass and control freak, which is what people were saying in the first place, but your argument shifts from "he'd be a better commish because he is less confrontational" to "his confrontational style worked for the Bombers because they won", which is another topic altogether. So if you think that style will work, OK, but that was not your point. You just want another reason to slag on Ambrosie IMO and use Miller as a better alternative (he may be) but your reasoning that he will be more conciliatory in negotiations seems way off if you want to make that the key point of your argument that he will be better.

[TrueBlue4ever]

24 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but, another update from Dave Naylor and Farhan Lalji. 

https://www.tsn.ca/video/naylor-some-within-cfl-concerned-clock-will-run-out-on-potential-2020-season~2012795

Not sure the issue of guaranteed contracts can be settled. Too much risk on both sides, as Naylor and Lalji point out. Players understandably want some guarantees if they disrupt their lives, come to the bubble, and COVID stops the season. And owners understandably don't want to pay out guaranteed salaries if the season stops in a year where they're already losing a ton of money. 

I really miss the CFL, but, I don't think it can happen this year. 

 

 

Anyone who does the math has to know that the league is not going ahead this year, and that has been the case for weeks.

Let's say that the CFL magically resolved its issues today and announced tomorrow a full plan to start up, and that plan actually was set in motion tomorrow as well. Players would need to come up from the USA, so getting flights would take some time, but let's be nice and say that gets done by Friday, August 14. They all arrive in Winnipeg and are put into the mandatory 14 day quarantine, which gets us to August 28. They also need to go through multiple COVID tests during that time. As a matter of comparison, the NFL is spending $75 million on COVID testing alone as part of their new season. so let's charitably say that 1/4 of the teams means 1/4 of the cost, so $19 million for testing alone. Then assuming no foul-ups or delays because of positive tests, and physicals take place and we are into the start of training camp and two-a-days by Monday or Tuesday. So start of September. Minimum time frame for that is 2 weeks, and 2 pre-season games will be needed because with 9 teams, you can't just have one because of imbalance. So now we are likely at the start of October for the start of the season. To play a 6 game schedule will take minimum 7 weeks of actual time given the required byes, so regular season ends November 17 and Grey Cup goes December 8. So if we start tomorrow with this process, we are already into December and we are definitely NOT starting tomorrow, and we are NOT starting the moment the plan gets announced, so best case scenario I say we are talking about a Christmas Grey Cup. That is just the calendar issue. Aside from the COVID testing, there is massive hotel and meal expenditures for the league to pick up for 9 teams, and this is a league that relies more than most others on gate revenue and not just predominantly TV money like the big 4, and not matter how the plan goes ahead there will be zero fans this year based on precedent from all other sports, and I don't see that changing by December.

The real question here is the dreaded one - does the CFL come back at all? One year off actually saves them more money then trying to squeeze in a COVID cost-prohibitive season, but the teams are still taking a bath. And when the Roughriders are losing money last year in a normal year, and are considered one of the strongest franchises out there financially, then it is time to consider overhauling the entire business model or scrapping the league in its current form, sorry to say.

[DR. CFL]

17 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 

 

Speed, your argument in defence of Miller seems to be a bit of a moving target, so let's get back to your original point that people disagree with.

You think Miller will be less hostile than Ambrosie in player negotiations. The counter-point is that he won't be because his personality is one of "my way or the highway". You then shift and say if he was hard to work for, people would have quit on him. That misses the point. In CBA negotiations, the players and their association are not working for him, they are working with him at best, or negotiating against him if spun in a more negative way. You then agree that he is a hard ass and control freak, which is what people were saying in the first place, but your argument shifts from "he'd be a better commish because he is less confrontational" to "his confrontational style worked for the Bombers because they won", which is another topic altogether. So if you think that style will work, OK, but that was not your point. You just want another reason to slag on Ambrosie IMO and use Miller as a better alternative (he may be) but your reasoning that he will be more conciliatory in negotiations seems way off if you want to make that the key point of your argument that he will be better.

At some point the CFL and the PA must learn to work as a partnership in co operation. This adversarial relationship has been brought to a head by Covid. It was a smouldering fire that has become a full blown inferno. Season or not there has to be a lesson learned by both sides moving forward.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

You think Miller will be less hostile than Ambrosie in player negotiations. The counter-point is that he won't be because his personality is one of "my way or the highway". 

The amount of positive reviews of players since Miller has taken over about being treated professionally and respected is night and day better.  I think he would be the perfect guy to work with the PA.   

 

[Bigblue204]

51 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Anyone who does the math has to know that the league is not going ahead this year, and that has been the case for weeks.

Let's say that the CFL magically resolved its issues today and announced tomorrow a full plan to start up, and that plan actually was set in motion tomorrow as well. Players would need to come up from the USA, so getting flights would take some time, but let's be nice and say that gets done by Friday, August 14. They all arrive in Winnipeg and are put into the mandatory 14 day quarantine, which gets us to August 28. They also need to go through multiple COVID tests during that time. As a matter of comparison, the NFL is spending $75 million on COVID testing alone as part of their new season. so let's charitably say that 1/4 of the teams means 1/4 of the cost, so $19 million for testing alone. Then assuming no foul-ups or delays because of positive tests, and physicals take place and we are into the start of training camp and two-a-days by Monday or Tuesday. So start of September. Minimum time frame for that is 2 weeks, and 2 pre-season games will be needed because with 9 teams, you can't just have one because of imbalance. So now we are likely at the start of October for the start of the season. To play a 6 game schedule will take minimum 7 weeks of actual time given the required byes, so regular season ends November 17 and Grey Cup goes December 8. So if we start tomorrow with this process, we are already into December and we are definitely NOT starting tomorrow, and we are NOT starting the moment the plan gets announced, so best case scenario I say we are talking about a Christmas Grey Cup. That is just the calendar issue. Aside from the COVID testing, there is massive hotel and meal expenditures for the league to pick up for 9 teams, and this is a league that relies more than most others on gate revenue and not just predominantly TV money like the big 4, and not matter how the plan goes ahead there will be zero fans this year based on precedent from all other sports, and I don't see that changing by December.

The real question here is the dreaded one - does the CFL come back at all? One year off actually saves them more money then trying to squeeze in a COVID cost-prohibitive season, but the teams are still taking a bath. And when the Roughriders are losing money last year in a normal year, and are considered one of the strongest franchises out there financially, then it is time to consider overhauling the entire business model or scrapping the league in its current form, sorry to say.

I believe the players are required to self quarantine for 2 weeks BEFORE coming to the city, and then another 2 when here. I might be mistaken about that.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Bigblue204

[SpeedFlex27]

14 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 

 

Speed, your argument in defence of Miller seems to be a bit of a moving target, so let's get back to your original point that people disagree with.

You think Miller will be less hostile than Ambrosie in player negotiations. The counter-point is that he won't be because his personality is one of "my way or the highway". You then shift and say if he was hard to work for, people would have quit on him. That misses the point. In CBA negotiations, the players and their association are not working for him, they are working with him at best, or negotiating against him if spun in a more negative way. You then agree that he is a hard ass and control freak, which is what people were saying in the first place, but your argument shifts from "he'd be a better commish because he is less confrontational" to "his confrontational style worked for the Bombers because they won", which is another topic altogether. So if you think that style will work, OK, but that was not your point. You just want another reason to slag on Ambrosie IMO and use Miller as a better alternative (he may be) but your reasoning that he will be more conciliatory in negotiations seems way off if you want to make that the key point of your argument that he will be better.

As far as I'm comcerned, the only thing you guys present as any kind of evidence is second & third hand information on Miller. None of you have actually worked for him to say honestly you know what he's like as a boss. So, it's all hearsay.

Miller may own other businesses but he  is a football guy first & foremost. It's his passion & what he understands best. He knows the world of pro football, the CFL & its limitations as a league. Looks to me like if he was as bad as some of you make him out to be that Walters & O'Shea would have left long ago yet here they are The Champs along with the scouts in the Football Ops dept. Until he actually does the job as Commissioner none of you have any idea what kind of a guy he'd be & how he'd treat people like the CFLPA.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

Hey TrueBlue4ever, since you insist on bringing up how I feel about Ambrosie (& I didn't) then I can retort to your comments. Anyone here who thinks  he's done a good job through this whole process of getting a 2020 season in with the botched federal committee hearing asking for up to $130 million, all the missed deadlines & now complete silence by the guy  have their heads in the sand. Players hate him. Media is mocking him. More & more fans are turning on him the longer this farce goes on. If & when this season is cancelled then watch the negative reaction unfold  & the anger will be focused on him for a lack of leadership & openness. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by SpeedFlex27

[M.Silverback]

18 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

The real question here is the dreaded one - does the CFL come back at all? 

That is the scary question. Like you said, the CFL may have to change it's entire business model. Pretty much every pro sports league is going to have to adjust their business model in this new world. The CFL is a lot more vulnerable as a league than most. 

As for how to do this - not sure where to start really. I think two things have to be considered:

1. Flattening of player salaries. Maybe raise the minimum salary, and impose a maximum salary. That might entice players to come and stay with a higher minimum salary; and it also protects against bad decision making by teams signing QB's to almost million dollar contracts, crippling the cap. Players end up earning very similar salaries (XFL and AAFL were proposing that model), which might control the cap rising too much, too fast.

2. Have to continue to find additional revenue sources. The theory behind CFL 2.0 was solid - give players from around the world a chance, and hopefully create a fan base that will stream games from other countries. Can they continue this in the COVID age? Not sure. But, if the CFL is counting on only gate revenue and TSN, they are in trouble.

I love the CFL. I really hope they can figure it out.  

[Noeller]

there is absolutely zero chance the CFL is gone forever. In some capacity, it will be back when things are healthy. It might look different, but it will be back, no matter what.

[SpeedFlex27]

12 hours ago, Noeller said:

there is absolutely zero chance the CFL is gone forever. In some capacity, it will be back when things are healthy. It might look different, but it will be back, no matter what.

I think so as well. I just wish dinosaurs like David Braley would sell his interest in the Lions & leave. Something tells me he has a lot to do with the rancor that has been going on for years between the CFL & it's PA. The CFL needs a new way of thinking from top to bottom.

[Mr Dee]

Figures.

 

[JCon]

3 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Figures.

 

If anyone is still under the delusion that there will be a CFL season, this should dispel that. It's only the community based teams that really want it. 

The league and PA don't even have an agreement and it's mid-August. 

[Mr Dee]

 

 

[TBURGESS]

For what it's worth...

Odell Willis - @KuntryKane205 CFL 2020 is has been cancelled!!!!  Let’s get ready for 2021 #LetsTryAgainNextYear
6:06 PM · Aug 13, 2020

[Jpan85]

17 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

For what it's worth...

Odell Willis - @KuntryKane205 CFL 2020 is has been cancelled!!!!  Let’s get ready for 2021 #LetsTryAgainNextYear
6:06 PM · Aug 13, 2020

He was proven wrong

[Jpan85]

But at the same time its not going to happen

[Noeller]

I'm not going to bet on either scenario (Play vs Not Play) until it's 100% official. I'll never bet against Wade Miller... that said, if they can financially survive without playing games in 2020, then I think that might be for the best. Just spend all your time focusing on how to make 100% sure that 2021 goes ahead as "normal". Give us something to look forward to.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Noeller

[DR. CFL]

On 2020-08-12 at 6:02 PM, Brandon said:

The amount of positive reviews of players since Miller has taken over about being treated professionally and respected is night and day better.  I think he would be the perfect guy to work with the PA.   

 

I guess that is a credit to Walters , O’Shea and the coaching staff....as well as the Equipment and Medical Staff. The individuals who are in constant daily contact with the players. Thanks to them for all they have done.

[17to85]

15 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

I guess that is a credit to Walters , O’Shea and the coaching staff....as well as the Equipment and Medical Staff. The individuals who are in constant daily contact with the players. Thanks to them for all they have done.

and thanks to the guy who hired them right? The people at the top set the tone for the organization bubbling and firing the right people.

[JCon]

It's almost like it's a group of people all working together for a common goal. For lack of a better term, let's call them a "team". 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, Noeller said:

I'm not going to bet on either scenario (Play vs Not Play) until it's 100% official. I'll never bet against Wade Miller... that said, if they can financially survive without playing games in 2020, then I think that might be for the best. Just spend all your time focusing on how to make 100% sure that 2021 goes ahead as "normal". Give us something to look forward to.

It's not up to us or the league as something to look forward to. It's up to the Covid virus & if we can control it.  Looking at the US, we can't. 

[Starman115]

A glimmer of hope?

 

Njoo positive about talks with CFL but cannot provide timeline for decision

TORONTO — Canada's Deputy Chief Public Health Officer remains encouraged about the CFL's health-and-safety protocols but can't say when approval for a shortened season might come.

Full story - https://www.tsn.ca/dr-howard-njoo-positive-about-talks-with-cfl-but-cannot-provide-timeline-for-decision-1.1509221

 

[JCon]

7 minutes ago, Starman115 said:

A glimmer of hope?

 

Njoo positive about talks with CFL but cannot provide timeline for decision

TORONTO — Canada's Deputy Chief Public Health Officer remains encouraged about the CFL's health-and-safety protocols but can't say when approval for a shortened season might come.

Full story - https://www.tsn.ca/dr-howard-njoo-positive-about-talks-with-cfl-but-cannot-provide-timeline-for-decision-1.1509221

 

[Eternal optimist]

As is typical of governments in power, Trudeau will use CFL as leverage and only let the funds flow starting in 2023, just in time for the next federal election...