Covid-19

[The Unknown Poster]

Yup

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

46 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Yup

 

The proof will be if we immediately drop the social isolation rules and say “back to normal” and then there is a second spike. If the approach of “it is working so keep it up” rather than “it worked so we are done with it now” is maintained, in the long run it should mean less deaths and less of a second wave. I’ll defer to the experts on when the social distancing should be relaxed. And by experts, I don’t mean Mr. “the country will be up and running by Easter”. 

[Tracker]

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[The Unknown Poster]

33 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

The proof will be if we immediately drop the social isolation rules and say “back to normal” and then there is a second spike. If the approach of “it is working so keep it up” rather than “it worked so we are done with it now” is maintained, in the long run it should mean less deaths and less of a second wave. I’ll defer to the experts on when the social distancing should be relaxed. And by experts, I don’t mean Mr. “the country will be up and running by Easter”. 

Yeah, I think there for sure will be another spike, just not as severe.  They'll be dealing with COVID for years, most seriously until there is a vaccine but the goal was always to flatten the curve, as they say, and spread it out.  The hoax people and the deniers want to look at the positive news and say "see, nothing to this" when in reality it demonstrates the massive efforts to contain the virus are working.

24 minutes ago, Tracker said:

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Why would Copeland donate money to a virus he already cured with his breath?

[17to85]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Yup

 

First person who tries to say "see no big deal" in my hearing is going to be verbally slapped upside the head for being a dumb ass. 

[Noeller]

right from the very beginning, officials said "If this works, it's going to look like it was an overreaction" and that's exactly what we should all be hoping for. If everyone does their part and just STAYS HOME, this will be over that much sooner and we can get back to normal. 

[Floyd]

16 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

First person who tries to say "see no big deal" in my hearing is going to be verbally slapped upside the head for being a dumb ass. 

While I enjoy the Washington Post, the reports of hundreds of deaths in New York not being classified as covid is likely what's flattening the curve in the US

I'm going to wait on this one - I think Canada will flatten quickly like BC did...  US not so much

 

[tacklewasher]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

right from the very beginning, officials said "If this works, it's going to look like it was an overreaction" and that's exactly what we should all be hoping for. If everyone does their part and just STAYS HOME, this will be over that much sooner and we can get back to normal. 

Nope. If we do as suggested, it will be drawn out by a month or two, but in drawing it out we will not overtax our healthcare and will not see a death rate like Italy.

[Floyd]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

right from the very beginning, officials said "If this works, it's going to look like it was an overreaction" and that's exactly what we should all be hoping for. If everyone does their part and just STAYS HOME, this will be over that much sooner and we can get back to normal. 

A friend of mine just travelled from Calgary to Grande Prairie/FSJ for work...

Calgary sounds like its total buy-in lockdown while life if just going on normally in GP - said its fkn weird.

[bustamente]

26 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Yeah, I think there for sure will be another spike, just not as severe.  They'll be dealing with COVID for years, most seriously until there is a vaccine but the goal was always to flatten the curve, as they say, and spread it out.  The hoax people and the deniers want to look at the positive news and say "see, nothing to this" when in reality it demonstrates the massive efforts to contain the virus are working.

Why would Copeland donate money to a virus he already cured with his breath?

A snake oil salesman with snake eyes, all that's missing is the lizard tongue.

[Tracker]

If you want yet another measure of how serious health authorities are taking this pandemic, every province has already set or is setting triage criteria in the event the healthcare system is overloaded to decide who will get treatment. Scary but necessary.

[Floyd]

5 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If you want yet another measure of how serious health authorities are taking this pandemic, every province has already set or is setting triage criteria in the event the healthcare system is overloaded to decide who will get treatment. Scary but necessary.

More than two weeks ago, I saw pics of a park in Vancouver completely converted to a triage/quarantine plus they had BC Place on standby

Horgan has done an amazing job without scare-mongering or releasing big numbers to make himself look good - very impressed.

[17to85]

48 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Calgary sounds like its total buy-in lockdown while life if just going on normally in GP - said its fkn weird.

GP is a **** hole that's why.

[Mr Dee]

False negatives?
At least 51 patients diagnosed as having fully recovered from the coronavirus in South Korea have tested positive a second time after leaving quarantine, according to officials.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/51-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-again-in-south-korea/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPFacebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow&sr_share=facebook

 

 

[Mr Dee]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The hoax people and the deniers want to look at the positive news and say "see, nothing to this" when in reality it demonstrates the massive efforts to contain the virus are working.

Exactly.

I wonder if these same people would care to hazard a guess at the number of cases and deaths, if proper measures hadn’t been undertaken.

Any unknown ‘virus’ has to be looked at keenly.

As Theresa Tam, Chief Public Health Officer of Canada, says “once you’ve seen one pandemic, you’ve seen...one pandemic.”

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, bustamente said:

A snake oil salesman with snake eyes, all that's missing is the lizard tongue.

That madman (and the rest of them) are multimillionaires because they feed off the vulnerable, easily led and cognitively challenged people. Maddening and suffocating.

[Tracker]

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who tested positive for the coronavirus roughly two weeks ago, has been moved out of the intensive care unit at St. Thomas’ Hospital after receiving oxygen support. “The Prime Minister has been moved this evening from intensive care back to the ward, where he will receive close monitoring during the early phase of his recovery,” Downing Street said in a statement. “He is in extremely good spirits.” The prime minister was hospitalized on Sunday and was transferred to the intensive care unit the following day. 

Read it at Twitter

[J5V]

On 2020-04-05 at 2:27 PM, Floyd said:

Agreed to some extent - but flu vaccine is 40-50% effective...  I expect covid vaccine to be the same - virus will continue to evolve faster than the vaccine

We are in lockdown because this was reported as a 3-4% fatality rate as high as 9-10%...  the current stats in North America indicate a 3% infection rate out of total tested and of that 3% there is a 1-2% fatality rate - focused on 65+ age group (which is incidentally not the prime age group of infection).  Lots of moving parts.

My concern is that we are denying the 5-55 age range a chance at herd immunity by locking this all down... we'll see - watching Sweden closely.

Statistics starting to come out of Sweden. Found this article which mentions Denmark as well. 

Has Sweden Found the Right Solution to the Coronavirus?

Here are a few of the highlights ...

"If the COVID-19 pandemic tails off in a few weeks, months before the alarmists claim it will, they will probably pivot immediately and pat themselves on the back for the brilliant social-distancing controls that they imposed on the world. They will claim that their heroic recommendations averted total calamity. Unfortunately, they will be wrong; and Sweden, which has done almost no mandated social distancing, will probably prove them wrong."

“The theory of lockdown, after all, is pretty niche, deeply illiberal — and, until now, untested. It’s not Sweden that’s conducting a mass experiment. It’s everyone else.”

"We’ve posed these simple questions to many highly trained infectious-disease doctors, epidemiologists, mathematical disease-modelers, and other smart, educated professionals. It turns out that, while you need proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict a person of theft and throw them in jail, you don’t need any actual evidence (much less proof) to put millions of people into a highly invasive and burdensome lockdown with no end in sight and nothing to prevent the lockdown from being reimposed at the whim of public-health officials. Is this rational?"

"The problem with lockdowns is that “you tire the system out,” Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, told the Guardian. “You can’t keep a lockdown going for months — it’s impossible.” He told Britain’s Daily Mail: “We can’t kill all our services. And unemployed people are a great threat to public health. It’s a factor you need to think about.”"

"The really good news is that in Sweden’s ICU census, which is updated every 30 minutes nationwide, admissions to every ICU in the country are flat or declining, and they have been for a week. As of this writing (based on currently available data), most of Sweden’s ICU cases today are elderly, and 77 percent have underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease, kidney disease, and diabetes. Moreover, there hasn’t been a single pediatric ICU case or death in Sweden — so much for the benefits of shutting down schools everywhere else. There are only 25 COVID-19 ICU admissions among all Swedes under the age of 30."

"Sweden is developing herd immunity by refusing to panic. By not requiring social isolation, Sweden’s young people spread the virus, mostly asymptomatically, as is supposed to happen in a normal flu season. They will generate protective antibodies that make it harder and harder for the Wuhan virus to reach and infect the frail and elderly who have serious underlying conditions. For perspective, the current COVID-19 death rate in Sweden (40 deaths per million of population) is substantially lower than the Swedish death rate in a normal flu season (in 2018, for instance, about 80 per million of population)."

"Nature’s got this one, folks. We’ve been coping with new viruses for untold generations. The best way is to allow the young and healthy — those for whom the virus is rarely fatal — to develop antibodies and herd immunity to protect the frail and sick. As time passes, it will become clearer that social-isolation measures like those in Switzerland and Norway accomplish very little in terms of reducing fatalities or disease, though they crater local and national economies — increasing misery, pain, death, and disease from other causes as people’s lives are upended and futures are destroyed."

Source: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/

[Noeller]

not to go full Captain America, but "We Don't Trade Lives"........not for the economy, not for anything. Any deaths are not okay. Dr Tam said today, we can't prevent every death, but we must prevent every death possible....

[Floyd]

18 minutes ago, Noeller said:

not to go full Captain America, but "We Don't Trade Lives"........not for the economy, not for anything. Any deaths are not okay. Dr Tam said today, we can't prevent every death, but we must prevent every death possible....

since when do we do this?  I mean if this was an actual tenet of western civilization, cigarettes And alcohol would be completely banned

you would lose your license over any infraction, you should be quarantined if you have the flu, etc

covid is serious but we are losing our collective perspective - we have never functioned on ‘saving all lives’ possible, our society functions on collective good

... and not the band either 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Floyd

[Mr Dee]

And then there’s the other side:

April 9th, 7 hours ago

Sweden has a relatively high case fatality rate: as of April 8, 7.68% of the Swedes who have tested positive for COVID-19 have died of the virus. Neighboring countries, like Norway and Denmark, have case fatality rates of 1.46% and 3.85% respectively. (The U.S. case fatality rate is 3.21%.) While Sweden’s elevated case fatality rate could be a result of its low testing rates compared to its neighbors, experts say Sweden’s laissez-faire approach could also be to blame.

“We think there is no scientific evidence for their strategy,” says Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, an expert in microbial pathogenesis who signed the letter. She says the government has been reluctant to share its data with scientists, leading her to believe that the government’s strategy is “not based on evidence.”

A head doctor at a major hospital in Sweden says the current approach will “probably end in a historical massacre.” He says healthcare workers at his hospital who have tested positive for the virus but are asymptomatic have been advised to continue working. He asked to remain anonymous because “it is frowned upon to speak of the epidemic or to go against the official vision” but said he felt a need to speak out from an “ethical and medical point of view.”

https://time.com/5817412/sweden-coronavirus/
 

[Noeller]

that loss of life is disgusting. 

[Floyd]

2 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

And then there’s the other side:

April 9th, 7 hours ago

Sweden has a relatively high case fatality rate: as of April 8, 7.68% of the Swedes who have tested positive for COVID-19 have died of the virus. Neighboring countries, like Norway and Denmark, have case fatality rates of 1.46% and 3.85% respectively. (The U.S. case fatality rate is 3.21%.) While Sweden’s elevated case fatality rate could be a result of its low testing rates compared to its neighbors, experts say Sweden’s laissez-faire approach could also be to blame.

“We think there is no scientific evidence for their strategy,” says Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, an expert in microbial pathogenesis who signed the letter. She says the government has been reluctant to share its data with scientists, leading her to believe that the government’s strategy is “not based on evidence.”

A head doctor at a major hospital in Sweden says the current approach will “probably end in a historical massacre.” He says healthcare workers at his hospital who have tested positive for the virus but are asymptomatic have been advised to continue working. He asked to remain anonymous because “it is frowned upon to speak of the epidemic or to go against the official vision” but said he felt a need to speak out from an “ethical and medical point of view.”

https://time.com/5817412/sweden-coronavirus/
 

Sweden is taking a 'lowered spike' approach instead of a flattened curve - we can't really judge it until 1-2 more weeks have passed

Norway and Denmark also have half the populations of Sweden... while the comparison is partially valid - it should also be compared to Spain and Italy who have similar populations over similar land mass.

[Floyd]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

that loss of life is disgusting. 

what is disgusting is the amount of cancer treatments and CT scans, etc being cancelled right now... 

[Mr Dee]

12 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Sweden is taking a 'lowered spike' approach instead of a flattened curve - we can't really judge it until 1-2 more weeks have passed

Norway and Denmark also have half the populations of Sweden... while the comparison is partially valid - it should also be compared to Spain and Italy who have similar populations over similar land mass.

Exactly why the article was posted...to show the other side of the story.

Results?
To be determined..