Covid-19

[Floyd]

8 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Exactly why the article was posted...to show the other side of the story.

Results?
To be determined..

I like information.  And I wasn't actually arguing.

However, you're excerpt is fairly critical... I've been reading about this today and I can't figure out why they aren't comparing to more countries - Sweden is somewhere in the middle right now

[Mr Dee]

I read that many provinces, states and local communities have asked previous health care workers to come out of retirement to help with this grievous situation, and many are returning to help. 
And good on them. Much appreciated.

In the US, have they thought about asking previous Presidents to return?

[SpeedFlex27]

52 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

And then there’s the other side:

April 9th, 7 hours ago

Sweden has a relatively high case fatality rate: as of April 8, 7.68% of the Swedes who have tested positive for COVID-19 have died of the virus. Neighboring countries, like Norway and Denmark, have case fatality rates of 1.46% and 3.85% respectively. (The U.S. case fatality rate is 3.21%.) While Sweden’s elevated case fatality rate could be a result of its low testing rates compared to its neighbors, experts say Sweden’s laissez-faire approach could also be to blame.

“We think there is no scientific evidence for their strategy,” says Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, an expert in microbial pathogenesis who signed the letter. She says the government has been reluctant to share its data with scientists, leading her to believe that the government’s strategy is “not based on evidence.”

A head doctor at a major hospital in Sweden says the current approach will “probably end in a historical massacre.” He says healthcare workers at his hospital who have tested positive for the virus but are asymptomatic have been advised to continue working. He asked to remain anonymous because “it is frowned upon to speak of the epidemic or to go against the official vision” but said he felt a need to speak out from an “ethical and medical point of view.”

https://time.com/5817412/sweden-coronavirus/
 

Wow, that is crazy. I'd say criminal. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

Statistics starting to come out of Sweden. Found this article which mentions Denmark as well. 

Has Sweden Found the Right Solution to the Coronavirus?

Here are a few of the highlights ...

"If the COVID-19 pandemic tails off in a few weeks, months before the alarmists claim it will, they will probably pivot immediately and pat themselves on the back for the brilliant social-distancing controls that they imposed on the world. They will claim that their heroic recommendations averted total calamity. Unfortunately, they will be wrong; and Sweden, which has done almost no mandated social distancing, will probably prove them wrong."

“The theory of lockdown, after all, is pretty niche, deeply illiberal — and, until now, untested. It’s not Sweden that’s conducting a mass experiment. It’s everyone else.”

"We’ve posed these simple questions to many highly trained infectious-disease doctors, epidemiologists, mathematical disease-modelers, and other smart, educated professionals. It turns out that, while you need proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict a person of theft and throw them in jail, you don’t need any actual evidence (much less proof) to put millions of people into a highly invasive and burdensome lockdown with no end in sight and nothing to prevent the lockdown from being reimposed at the whim of public-health officials. Is this rational?"

"The problem with lockdowns is that “you tire the system out,” Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, told the Guardian. “You can’t keep a lockdown going for months — it’s impossible.” He told Britain’s Daily Mail: “We can’t kill all our services. And unemployed people are a great threat to public health. It’s a factor you need to think about.”"

"The really good news is that in Sweden’s ICU census, which is updated every 30 minutes nationwide, admissions to every ICU in the country are flat or declining, and they have been for a week. As of this writing (based on currently available data), most of Sweden’s ICU cases today are elderly, and 77 percent have underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease, kidney disease, and diabetes. Moreover, there hasn’t been a single pediatric ICU case or death in Sweden — so much for the benefits of shutting down schools everywhere else. There are only 25 COVID-19 ICU admissions among all Swedes under the age of 30."

"Sweden is developing herd immunity by refusing to panic. By not requiring social isolation, Sweden’s young people spread the virus, mostly asymptomatically, as is supposed to happen in a normal flu season. They will generate protective antibodies that make it harder and harder for the Wuhan virus to reach and infect the frail and elderly who have serious underlying conditions. For perspective, the current COVID-19 death rate in Sweden (40 deaths per million of population) is substantially lower than the Swedish death rate in a normal flu season (in 2018, for instance, about 80 per million of population)."

"Nature’s got this one, folks. We’ve been coping with new viruses for untold generations. The best way is to allow the young and healthy — those for whom the virus is rarely fatal — to develop antibodies and herd immunity to protect the frail and sick. As time passes, it will become clearer that social-isolation measures like those in Switzerland and Norway accomplish very little in terms of reducing fatalities or disease, though they crater local and national economies — increasing misery, pain, death, and disease from other causes as people’s lives are upended and futures are destroyed."

Source: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/

The language alone in this piece should be your first clue that it's not an objective piece of information. 

That's why you are wrong. You are taking opinions as facts and not questioning them because it tells you what you want to hear. But this piece is pushing an agenda very obviously. It's not telling you the truth, it's telling you what you want to hear using broad, vague statements and opinions presented as facts. 

[J5V]

The decision to sacrifice human lives is made every day. For example, when a vehicle safety proposal that will save lives is brought to General Motors and they consider it's implementation a decision is made weighing human lives on one hand and cost on the other. Yes all vehicles could be made like Sherman tanks and human lives would be saved, however the decision is made to not implement these safety features in the name of profits, convenience, and economic viability. 

[Tracker]

26 minutes ago, J5V said:

The decision to sacrifice human lives is made every day. For example, when a vehicle safety proposal that will save lives is brought to General Motors and they consider it's implementation a decision is made weighing human lives on one hand and cost on the other. Yes all vehicles could be made like Sherman tanks and human lives would be saved, however the decision is made to not implement these safety features in the name of profits, convenience, and economic viability. 

All such decisions have to be assessed for intent. About 16 years ago, a design flaw in GM cars was causing the motors to stall even at highway speeds, resulting in many deaths. GM knew of this within months but did a calculation as to the cost of paying out victims vs the cost of recall and redesign, and came to  the conclusion that it was cheaper to remain silent and settle the lawsuits as they arose while denying culpability. This eventually became public but no one was charged with criminal negligence or even fined. The chairman of GM resigned but he was due to do so soon anyways and left with a big payout.

[Floyd]

Like I said, let’s wait a week - the curve is absolutely flattened in BC so we’ve proven social distancing works - now we watch for the fallout of extending it - crime, withdrawal, depression, health care cutoff...

not saying right or wrong - but we are in some uncharted territory - Whitehorse police looking for armed b&e suspects now... this is a very rare crime up here

[Fatty Liver]

Signs going up on highways into BC restricting traffic.

 Highway 16, in both directions. Travel advisory in effect at BC-Alberta Border. Highway 16 Travel Advisory in effect. Avoid non-essential travel over the BC-Alberta border. Next update time Mon Apr 13 at 7:00 PM PDT. Last updated Thu Apr 9 at 11:01 AM PDT. (DBC-17189)

Highway 1 Both Directions - Highway 1, in both directions. Travel advisory in effect at BC-Alberta Border. Highway 1 Travel Advisory in effect. Avoid non-essential travel over the BC-Alberta boarder. Next update time Mon Apr 13 at 7:00 PM MDT. Last updated Thu Apr 9 at 12:01 PM MDT. (DBC-17188)

[Floyd]

13 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Signs going up on highways into BC restricting traffic.

 Highway 16, in both directions. Travel advisory in effect at BC-Alberta Border. Highway 16 Travel Advisory in effect. Avoid non-essential travel over the BC-Alberta border. Next update time Mon Apr 13 at 7:00 PM PDT. Last updated Thu Apr 9 at 11:01 AM PDT. (DBC-17189)

Highway 1 Both Directions - Highway 1, in both directions. Travel advisory in effect at BC-Alberta Border. Highway 1 Travel Advisory in effect. Avoid non-essential travel over the BC-Alberta boarder. Next update time Mon Apr 13 at 7:00 PM MDT. Last updated Thu Apr 9 at 12:01 PM MDT. (DBC-17188)

We have police at the Yukon-NWT border north of the Arctic Circle...  things are getting strange

[SpeedFlex27]

Didn't know Bud Grant had polio as a kid..,

https://www.startribune.com/lying-low-during-coronavirus-pandemic-bud-grant-sees-history-repeating-itself/569520562/

 

[iHeart]

I wasn't sure if this belonged in the random video thread or here

 

 

[Eternal optimist]

5 hours ago, J5V said:

The decision to sacrifice human lives is made every day. For example, when a vehicle safety proposal that will save lives is brought to General Motors and they consider it's implementation a decision is made weighing human lives on one hand and cost on the other. Yes all vehicles could be made like Sherman tanks and human lives would be saved, however the decision is made to not implement these safety features in the name of profits, convenience, and economic viability. 

Absolutely, however, I would counter with the fact that this is a horrendous disease for some, regardless of age. Yes, the majority of 30-somethings will be largely unaffected by it, but you have to realize if you throw caution to the wind, and a close member of your family contracts it and has serious complications resulting in death, you'll have to live forever with the knowledge that you caused them to die alone.

What you are describing is utilitarianism, and historically it has been used to justify some of the most abhorrent events in human history, anything can be justified for "the greter good", I hardly think it is a justifiable philosophical hill to die upon.

[do or die]

Bill O'Reilly:
"Many of those dying from coronavirus 'were on their last legs anyway'"

 

[Mr Dee]

A tiny bit of good news.. 🥴

 

 

[J5V]

7 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Absolutely, however, I would counter with the fact that this is a horrendous disease for some, regardless of age. Yes, the majority of 30-somethings will be largely unaffected by it, but you have to realize if you throw caution to the wind, and a close member of your family contracts it and has serious complications resulting in death, you'll have to live forever with the knowledge that you caused them to die alone.

What you are describing is utilitarianism, and historically it has been used to justify some of the most abhorrent events in human history, anything can be justified for "the greter good", I hardly think it is a justifiable philosophical hill to die upon.

I haven't heard anyone advocating throwing caution to the wind. Even Sweden is taking steps to protect and isolate the most vulnerable in their society, the elderly, restricting gatherings of large crowds, and asking their population to be "adult" and not throw caution to the wind. What they're not doing is over-reacting by buying into the media-hype and stripping their citizens of their rights, willingly destroying their economy, bankrupting their businesses, putting troops in the streets, restricting travel, and creating mass unemployment, poverty, and starvation  by locking down the whole population for an extended period of time. 

 

[Mr Dee]

How far apart should we be?

Use this football analogy...

 

 

[Tracker]

7 hours ago, do or die said:

Bill O'Reilly:
"Many of those dying from coronavirus 'were on their last legs anyway'"

 

O'Reilly just summed up the Trump/GOP philosophy.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

A tiny bit of good news.. 🥴

 

 

Finally! It may have been posted here already, but the Trump White house has informed the media that they will no longer have access to Birx or Fauci unless they air Trump's "press conferences" in their entirety. Yesterday, MSNBC interrupted their live coverage when Trump once again lied about the efficacy of his "cures" that have been debunked and switched over to an epidemiologist who immediately contradicted Trump. It looks like most of the media are starting to develop spines, but Fox and OANN will ramp up their sycophancy in response. 

[17to85]

I must have missed all the poverty and starvation going on.... 

[bustamente]

Trump decides he needs a second Covid 19 task force because 2 rallies a day is better than 1

Edited April 10, 2020 by bustamente

[Tracker]

Trump says he only gave Colorado 1% of the ventilators it needs after GOP senator asked for them

Longtime Colorado Democrat "outraged" Trump gave fraction of necessary equipment as favor to vulnerable Republican 

IGOR DERYSH

APRIL 9, 2020 4:08PM (UTC)

President Donald Trump was accused of political favoritism in the administration's coronavirus response after only sending a fraction of the ventilators sought by Colorado's Democratic governor "at the request" of the state's Republican senator.

Colorado Gov. Jared Polis, a Democrat, has been pleading for the federal government to provide his state with 10,000 ventilators since last month.

"Colorado's COVID-19 death rate is rising faster than any other state right now; the pandemic is spreading so fast that lags in testing are masking the true conditions experienced by Coloradans across the state," Polis said in a letter to Vice President Mike Pence, who is leading the White House coronavirus task force.

Not only did the federal government not respond to the request, but Polis also told CNN just days later the federal government seized an order of 500 ventilators bought by the state.

"We can't compete against our own federal government," he said. "So either work with us, or don't do anything at all. But this middle ground where they're buying stuff out from under us and not telling us what we're going to get, that's really challenging to manage our hospital surge and our safety of our health care workers in that kind of environment."

Edited April 10, 2020 by Tracker

[Mr Dee]

 

[The Unknown Poster]

9 hours ago, do or die said:

Bill O'Reilly:
"Many of those dying from coronavirus 'were on their last legs anyway'"

 

Sums up the character of the alt right quite nicely (and their supporters).  Bill is 70, is that close to last legs? 

[J5V]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I must have missed all the poverty and starvation going on.... 

You can't be serious.

[Floyd]

Huge props to Trudeau again...  in my industry, some of those $2000 cheques were received within two day - impressive.

Also the small business loan program was online with banks as of yesterday plus they lightened the requirements to prove lost revenue - amazing that we can roll this out so fast and efficiently yet its taking forever to fix the payroll boondoggle.