Covid-19

[TrueBlue4ever]

4 hours ago, J5V said:

Norway, like Korea, has really low numbers as they locked down almost immediately. Their fear is that when they relax the restrictions they will experience a spike in infections and away we go again. This is exactly what has happened in places like China. So the question may become, do we have a long, drawn out battle with this thing which destroys our economy and leads to mass social problems, or do we bite the bullet now, save the economy, avoid the social problems and get it over with? It remains to be seen which approach is best.

Putting aside your mis-information on numbers, could you please cite what proof you have that a non-lockdown will save the economy, and a long-term lockdown will "crater" it as you say? Yeah the stock market is down and people are filing unemployment claims, but who is to say that long-term we can re-open and handle a second wave better because of the drastic measures now, or that the economy won't bounce back (it did in 1987, 2001, 2008), or that biting the bullet now will actually keep the economy afloat anyway? I'd be curious to hear your argument as to what is happening today is somehow irreversible, and why it is a black and white "save lives, kill the economy vs. risk lives, save the economy" pre-ordained result. Sources to back up your argument, if you please.

[J5V]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Based on worldometers.info stats (compiled from Johns Hopkins and WHO data, and cited by Floyd in an earlier post), your statement that Denmark in a lockdown is doing as bad as Sweden in non-lockdown is wrong. Your next statement that Sweden a week ago had a 3.82% mortality rate is, well I won't say wrong, I prefer to say it's a lie.

As of April 13 -

Sweden: population 10.099 million (#91 in the world), 10,948 cases (19th), 919 deaths (14th), 91 deaths per million pop. (12th), and a mortality rate of 8.4% (deaths/total cases)

Denmark: population 5.792 million (#115 in the world), 6,318 cases (31st), 285 deaths (26th), 41 deaths per million pop. (20th), and a mortality rate of 4.5% (deaths/total cases)

Finland: population 5.540 million (#116 in the world), 3,064 cases (46th), 59 deaths (52nd), 11 deaths per million pop. (48th), and a mortality rate of 1.9% (deaths/total cases)

Norway: population 5.421 million (#119 in the world), 6,551 cases (29th), 134 deaths (34th), 25 deaths per million pop. (27th), and a mortality rate of 2.0% (deaths/total cases)

 

One week ago, Sweden had 477 deaths and 7,206 cases, for a mortality rate of 6.6%

Helps your argument if you don't make stuff up to back your hypothesis.

AtlanticRiderFan's numbers were based on total population, yours on number of cases. 

Death rate of Denmark= 273/6369*100= 4.3%
Death rate of Sweden=899/10483*100=8.6%

The number I saw from last week for Sweden was 400 but we'll use your figure of 477.
477/10483*100 equals 4.55% which is virtually identical to Denmark's 4.3% so I'll stand on those numbers.

I won't call you a liar and claim you made stuff up as that would be attacking you personally. I'll just assume you made a mistake in comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

9 minutes ago, J5V said:

AtlanticRiderFan's numbers were based on total population, yours on number of cases. 

Death rate of Denmark= 273/6369*100= 4.3%
Death rate of Sweden=899/10483*100=8.6%

The number I saw from last week for Sweden was 400 but we'll use your figure of 477.
477/10483*100 equals 4.55% which is virtually identical to Denmark's 4.3% so I'll stand on those numbers.

 

What were the deaths a week ago in denmark?

 

Check that sliding graph in the article from euronews I posted earlier.

Edited April 13, 2020 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Floyd]

7 minutes ago, J5V said:

AtlanticRiderFan's numbers were based on total population, yours on number of cases. 

Death rate of Denmark= 273/6369*100= 4.3%
Death rate of Sweden=899/10483*100=8.6%

The number I saw from last week for Sweden was 400 but we'll use your figure of 477.
477/10483*100 equals 4.55% which is virtually identical to Denmark's 4.3% so I'll stand on those numbers.

I won't call you a liar and claim you made stuff up as that would be attacking you personally. I'll just assume you made a mistake in comparing apples to oranges.

Sweden has over 900 deaths actually...

Denmark and other Scandinavian countries have about half the death rate that Sweden has currently

Switzerland who was one of the first to lock down has a higher death rate - not sure why...

But to everyone arguing about percentages etc right now - this is pointless, each country has different testing standards and rates

Sweden is likely testing a lot less so its case rate is lower and mortality rate looks higher than Switzerland, etc...

The data being used is a complete mess all over the world - we have no sense of Covid really, and won't for a long time

[J5V]

3 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

What were the deaths a week ago in denmark?

Not sure, let me see ... looks like 187 for Denmark and 477 for Sweden. 

[AtlanticRiderFan]

12 minutes ago, J5V said:

AtlanticRiderFan's numbers were based on total population, yours on number of cases. 

Death rate of Denmark= 273/6369*100= 4.3%
Death rate of Sweden=899/10483*100=8.6%

The number I saw from last week for Sweden was 400 but we'll use your figure of 477.
477/10483*100 equals 4.55% which is virtually identical to Denmark's 4.3% so I'll stand on those numbers.

I won't call you a liar and claim you made stuff up as that would be attacking you personally. I'll just assume you made a mistake in comparing apples to oranges.

 

Mine is based on the total number of cases as well. Deaths divided by number of cases in that country

[J5V]

Just now, AtlanticRiderFan said:

Mine is based on the total number of cases as well. Deaths divided by number of cases in that country

Okay, I give up! LOL!!

[J5V]

34 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Based on worldometers.info stats (compiled from Johns Hopkins and WHO data, and cited by Floyd in an earlier post), your statement that Denmark in a lockdown is doing as bad as Sweden in non-lockdown is wrong. Your next statement that Sweden a week ago had a 3.82% mortality rate is, well I won't say wrong, I prefer to say it's a lie.

As of April 13 -

Sweden: population 10.099 million (#91 in the world), 10,948 cases (19th), 919 deaths (14th), 91 deaths per million pop. (12th), and a mortality rate of 8.4% (deaths/total cases)

Denmark: population 5.792 million (#115 in the world), 6,318 cases (31st), 285 deaths (26th), 41 deaths per million pop. (20th), and a mortality rate of 4.5% (deaths/total cases)

Finland: population 5.540 million (#116 in the world), 3,064 cases (46th), 59 deaths (52nd), 11 deaths per million pop. (48th), and a mortality rate of 1.9% (deaths/total cases)

Norway: population 5.421 million (#119 in the world), 6,551 cases (29th), 134 deaths (34th), 25 deaths per million pop. (27th), and a mortality rate of 2.0% (deaths/total cases)

 

One week ago, Sweden had 477 deaths and 7,206 cases, for a mortality rate of 6.6%

Helps your argument if you don't make stuff up to back your hypothesis.

Sorry. I thought ARF was talking population. My bad.

[J5V]

6 minutes ago, AtlanticRiderFan said:

Mine is based on the total number of cases as well. Deaths divided by number of cases in that country

You have to admit, those numbers are damned close, give or take a few zeroes. LOL!

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Also Dr Fauci falling on his sword for trump right now.  It’s almost hilarious.   He’s really pumping trumps tires.  Lol 

[Floyd]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Also Dr Fauci falling on his sword for trump right now.  It’s almost hilarious.   He’s really pumping trumps tires.  Lol 

Do I dare watch this?

[bustamente]

2 days off and Trump is in full attack mode after all the stuff that came out about his handling of the pandemic over the weekend, even bringing out cherry picked videos

[do or die]

4 minutes ago, bustamente said:

2 days off and Trump is in full attack mode after all the stuff that came out about his handling of the pandemic over the weekend, even bringing out cherry picked videos

Those series of stories from The Times and The Wall St. Journal.....have Trump bigly angry. 

[Mr Dee]

39 minutes ago, J5V said:

The number I saw from last week for Sweden was 400 but we'll use your figure of 477.
477/10483*100 equals 4.55% which is virtually identical to Denmark's 4.3% so I'll stand on those numbers.

Stand? You better sit down.

Where did get 10483? You’re trumping out misinformation.

Sweden has total cases, as of today, of 10948.

April 6 - 376 new cases  April 8 - 726 new cases   April 9 - 722   April 10 - 544 

That’s a total of 2368 with no figures for April 7. That’s an average of 592 per reported day.

The rate therefore is higher than what you’re suggesting.

Maybe you’re thinking of Sudan? They have pretty low rate..

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Insane. 
 

 

[J5V]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Putting aside your mis-information on numbers, could you please cite what proof you have that a non-lockdown will save the economy, and a long-term lockdown will "crater" it as you say? Yeah the stock market is down and people are filing unemployment claims, but who is to say that long-term we can re-open and handle a second wave better because of the drastic measures now, or that the economy won't bounce back (it did in 1987, 2001, 2008), or that biting the bullet now will actually keep the economy afloat anyway? I'd be curious to hear your argument as to what is happening today is somehow irreversible, and why it is a black and white "save lives, kill the economy vs. risk lives, save the economy" pre-ordained result. Sources to back up your argument, if you please.

I won't attempt the impossible as I can't prove opinions, I have cited sources in support of my opinions however.

You say people are filing E.I. claims. 10 million in the U.S. in 2 weeks! When have we seen that before? 

Should you wish to speculate on the scenarios, I'll be happy to do so. For example, we could very well be heading into a mega-depression like we have never seen before. It's not hard to imagine many of the bankrupt small and medium size businesses and industries being bought up by huge monopolies like Google, Amazon, AliBaba, etc. and gigantic mergers take place. You mention 1987, 2001, 2008 but we have been steadily eroding as the good jobs have vanished and the ability to afford good health care and the basics have been slipping away from us steadily. This may precipitate the final grab of capital from the bottom of the pyramid to the top that our civilization has ever seen.

Edited April 13, 2020 by J5V

[bustamente]

Trump using taxpayers money and government employees to produce campaign propaganda videos, if Americans re elect him they will never get rid of him 

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, J5V said:

It's not hard to imagine many of the bankrupt small and medium size businesses and industries being bought up by huge monopolies like Google, Amazon, AliBaba, etc. and gigantic mergers take place. You mention 1987, 2001, 2008 but we have been steadily eroding as the good jobs have vanished and the ability to afford good health care and the basics have been slipping away from us steadily. This may precipitate the final grab of capital from the bottom of the pyramid to the top that our civilization has ever seen.

That has been going on for a long long time already and it's your type of attitudes that keep it going. You know how you counteract that? Good old fashioned socialism where you tax the wealthy and give social programs and support to the middle and lower classes... exactly what is starting to happen during a lockdown. 

Out of crisis comes opportunity and if businesses fail, there will be opportunities for new ones to take their place in the recovery. 

Status quo wasn't working. This can be a shakeup to actually make changes that improve things. 

[bustamente]

Democrats will have a treasure trove going in the election, he is another one that the Trump WH is trying to get off the air.

 

[bb1]

19 minutes ago, bustamente said:

Trump using taxpayers money and government employees to produce campaign propaganda videos, if Americans re elect him they will never get rid of him 

He can only serve one more term if he gets re-elected.

[Floyd]

20 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

That has been going on for a long long time already and it's your type of attitudes that keep it going. You know how you counteract that? Good old fashioned socialism where you tax the wealthy and give social programs and support to the middle and lower classes... exactly what is starting to happen during a lockdown. 

Out of crisis comes opportunity and if businesses fail, there will be opportunities for new ones to take their place in the recovery. 

Status quo wasn't working. This can be a shakeup to actually make changes that improve things. 

So we shouldn't let one person die of covid - even if they are 80 with dementia...  but you're cool with letting someone's life's work and likely savings be destroyed... 

Hmm.

[Noeller]

14 minutes ago, Floyd said:

So we shouldn't let one person die of covid - even if they are 80 with dementia...  but you're cool with letting someone's life's work and likely savings be destroyed... 

Hmm.

What kind of monster do you have to be that this doesn't make sense to you...??

[Mr Dee]

20 minutes ago, Floyd said:

So we shouldn't let one person die of covid - even if they are 80 with dementia...  but you're cool with letting someone's life's work and likely savings be destroyed... 

Hmm.

Hmm.

[SpeedFlex27]

35 minutes ago, Floyd said:

So we shouldn't let one person die of covid - even if they are 80 with dementia...  but you're cool with letting someone's life's work and likely savings be destroyed... 

Hmm.

Hmm. That 80 year old has seen their life's work been destroyed as well through no fault of their own. They didn't ask to have Dementia, Cancer or Alzheimer's. Or anyone of a thousand sicknesses, diseases or afflictions we could get. What you just posted above is the most pathetic, selfish & heartless thing I have ever read here. You.  Should.  Just.  Stop. Now.