Covid-19

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Yeah, everyone over the age of 60 is going to sacrifice their lives for a 30 year old because that is the right thing to do.

 

Well in Japan after the nuclear meltdown I thought it was a bunch of older men who went in for the clean up to sacrifice themselves rather then getting the younger men sick.   

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 hours ago, J5V said:

Yeah, I messed that up badly. My apologies. You're right. In my defense, in the video, the gentleman being interviewed said that Sweden and Denmark had roughly the same death rate. When I referred to that comment I prefaced it with "If that's true" (then what's the point of the lockdown). I didn't realise he was off as much as he was. Sweden is definitely taking it on the chin right now but they have managed it and haven't overwhelmed their health system.

If x number of people are going to die regardless, what does it matter if they die in a short, tall curve or a longer, flattened curve provided your health system doesn't get overwhelmed? It remains to be seen what the final result is. Maybe they're looking at it like a battle. They'd rather charge and take the hill all at once rather than try to inch their way along and take it slowly. It could very well be the death toll is the same either way.

The great unknown is how many deaths can be prevented by spreading out the curve. I get the idea that IF the health system is not going to be overwhelmed AND the same number of people are going to die in the end, then why stall it and hurt the economy, but the concern was exactly that the system WOULD be overwhelmed and more deaths would occur if it happened all at once. And this outcome had already been seen in Italy, where decisions were made not to treat patients over a certain age for no reason other than the fact that there were not enough s ventilators to administer to everyone and hospitals were literally choosing who lived or died based on age. Had there been a slower curve, it is logical that there would have been enough machines for every patient and more would survive than simply being left to die. Is it worth the economic losses? Some will say no, some will say it isn’t even a question to be considered. I guess my view is that the economy has bounced back before from bad times, but no one bounces back from being dead, and I don’t have statistics to show that an economic downturn will cause more deaths than Coronavirus, but stats are showing that a delinquent or non-response to social isolation has been causing a higher per capita incidence of death. 

[J5V]

51 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

The great unknown is how many deaths can be prevented by spreading out the curve. I get the idea that IF the health system is not going to be overwhelmed AND the same number of people are going to die in the end, then why stall it and hurt the economy, but the concern was exactly that the system WOULD be overwhelmed and more deaths would occur if it happened all at once. And this outcome had already been seen in Italy, where decisions were made not to treat patients over a certain age for no reason other than the fact that there were not enough s ventilators to administer to everyone and hospitals were literally choosing who lived or died based on age. Had there been a slower curve, it is logical that there would have been enough machines for every patient and more would survive than simply being left to die. Is it worth the economic losses? Some will say no, some will say it isn’t even a question to be considered. I guess my view is that the economy has bounced back before from bad times, but no one bounces back from being dead, and I don’t have statistics to show that an economic downturn will cause more deaths than Coronavirus, but stats are showing that a delinquent or non-response to social isolation has been causing a higher per capita incidence of death. 

Ideally we save both the people and the economy. That's not going to happen and we're going to have to make tough choices. Losing some people to the virus AND losing the economy is just the worst case scenario I can imagine because even if you save people initially if the economy goes down you're going to lose people later anyway. A lot of people.

I can't shake the idea that if you at least save the economy and as many people as you can it is the best approach. If the economy collapses the deaths from that and the toll it will take on our society may make the virus death numbers pale by comparison. I wish I could be more optimistic about the economy but I really do see it's collapse as the greater threat. 

As Floyd stated we already have a shitload of nasty problems waiting just down the road and I think people either don't see it or maybe they think someone is going to deal with it for us but I have no faith in our governments or the elites to do what is best for us. I suspect the vultures are already gathering and waiting patiently to encircle the carcass of our economy when the time is right so they can sweep in and pick off the flesh unencumbered by our once-virulent society.

[J5V]

Just as an aside if anyone's interested. 

Influenza and pneumonia deaths, 2017, Sweden had 3,589. Covid-19 deaths, 2020, to-date - Sweden at 919 
Influenza and pneumonia deaths, 2017, Canada had 6,391.  Covid-19 deaths, 2020, to-date - Canada at 780 

Sources: 
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/sweden-influenza-pneumonia
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/canada-influenza-pneumonia
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

[J5V]

9 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Where did get 10483? You’re trumping out misinformation.
Sweden has total cases, as of today, of 10948.
April 6 - 376 new cases  April 8 - 726 new cases   April 9 - 722   April 10 - 544 
That’s a total of 2368 with no figures for April 7. That’s an average of 592 per reported day.
The rate therefore is higher than what you’re suggesting.
Maybe you’re thinking of Sudan? They have pretty low rate..

10483 was ARF'S number, that's why I used it. It wasn't my number. Therefore I trumped out nothing. Therefore it stands.
ARF: "Death rate of Sweden=899/10483*100=8.6%"

Feel free to run off on your tangent though. Haters gonna hate. Sad.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

 

Well in Japan after the nuclear meltdown I thought it was a bunch of older men who went in for the clean up to sacrifice themselves rather then getting the younger men sick.   

I don't know was it? And if so, would they have given their lives to save Pepsi or Coca Cola? Or were they doing that to prevent their families from suffering  nuclear poisoning? I think men of all ages would have done that. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

Ideally we save both the people and the economy. That's not going to happen and we're going to have to make tough choices. Losing some people to the virus AND losing the economy is just the worst case scenario I can imagine because even if you save people initially if the economy goes down you're going to lose people later anyway. A lot of people.

I can't shake the idea that if you at least save the economy and as many people as you can it is the best approach. If the economy collapses the deaths from that and the toll it will take on our society may make the virus death numbers pale by comparison. I wish I could be more optimistic about the economy but I really do see it's collapse as the greater threat. 

As Floyd stated we already have a shitload of nasty problems waiting just down the road and I think people either don't see it or maybe they think someone is going to deal with it for us but I have no faith in our governments or the elites to do what is best for us. I suspect the vultures are already gathering and waiting patiently to encircle the carcass of our economy when the time is right so they can sweep in and pick off the flesh unencumbered by our once-virulent society.

I think your doom & gloom, we're all gonna die if we don't go back to work, we must sacrifice the old & the sick for the young & the strong, the economy being destroyed is worse than the virus itself thingy needs to be tempered. I was curious as to how the Great Depression affected the mortality rate & found articles all saying the death rate went down & not up. Life expectancy increased as well. 

Here's one:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/great-depression-had-little-effect-on-death-rates-46713514/

Another:

https://www.history.com/news/great-depression-economy-life-expectancy

Finally:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2765209/

 

There's more of the same articles but I won't post them. It seems historians & scholars are in agreement that while life was difficult for just about everyone in the 1930's, millions did not die from starvation, disease, from freezing to death or from the economy falling into a depression. Indeed, life expectancy increased in the 1930's.

So then,  based on the information in the 3 articles above & others that can be googled, it seems the world would survive somehow & life would carry on. Therefore, I would only sacrifice my life to save my family if in danger. Not to save the local A & W down the street or Apple, Microsoft, General Motors, Sony or Amazon. In this economy at present, companies will fold & others will take their place. I expect that a lot of companies that we know now will not be around in the future when this pandemic is over. Ones that we have known all our lives. Opportunities will be created by entrepreneurs when these & other businesses fail.

The world survived the Great Depression & The Second World War back to back.  Europe, China, Japan & SE Asia were in ruins after 1945. The economy roared back in the early 1950's. My concern isn't Floyd's business. That's his problem although I do hope his business makes it even though he wants human sacrifices at The Altar Of The Almighty Dollar. I  have my own problems to worry about & those of my family, relatives & friends making it safely thru this pandemic. But if any of you want to sacrifice the lives of seniors who are sick then please think again. People who sacrificed to make a better life for you by building this country. If saving the economy means killing the weak, the sick & the infirmed then count me out. If you want to be be dead heroes & sacrifice your life willingly or the lives of your loved ones to save the economy then have at it. I won't be doing it. 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by SpeedFlex27

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[Fred C Dobbs]

Meanwhile in China:

Quote

The adenovirus vector vaccine is the first COVID-19 vaccine in the world that has entered the second phase of clinical trials.

BEIJING, April 14 (Xinhua) -- China has approved three COVID-19 vaccine candidates for clinical trials, said an official with the Ministry of Science and Technology (MOST) on Tuesday.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-04/14/c_138975722.htm

[do or die]

Having pondered some of the recent posts......my new plan is to ingest as much gin, as humanly possible.....then jump off a 5G tower.  
Plaudits to follow......

[The Unknown Poster]

This is really an historic melt down.  It will be shown for years, perhaps taught in schools (unless he does something even worse)

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-governors-economy/index.html

With 23,000 Americans dead and millions without a paycheck, President Donald Trump dimmed the lights in the White House briefing room, fired up a misleading propaganda video and boiled over.

In one of the most unchained presidential tantrums ever captured on television, Trump's Monday display flouted every notion of calm leadership by the commander in chief in a crisis.

He claimed powers never envisioned by the Constitution and insisted his "authority is total" to order states and cities to get moving again to break out of the frozen economy. His warning came as two blocs of Eastern and Western hot-spot states banded together in an implied challenge to his vow to get people back to work soon, setting off a brewing confrontation over the power of the federal government.

During the news conference, Trump moaned that the press was not giving him credit because "everything we did was right" in the coronavirus pandemic.

 

 

Raging at reporters, the President used the campaign-style video to mislead the nation about his sluggish recognition of the threat from the virus, after once predicting a "miracle" that would make it go away. He called up his top medical adviser, Dr. Anthony Fauci, to publicly repudiate his own words Sunday on CNN, which had been interpreted as criticism of early administration actions.

[Mr Dee]

16 hours ago, J5V said:

The number I saw from last week for Sweden was 400 but we'll use your figure of 477.
477/10483*100 equals 4.55% which is virtually identical to Denmark's 4.3% so I'll stand on those numbers.

your quote from above: (5-6 hours ago)
10483 was ARF'S number, that's why I used it. It wasn't my number. Therefore I trumped out nothing. Therefore it stands.
ARF: "Death rate of Sweden=899/10483*100=8.6%"

You’re definitely trumping out numbers to suit your argument. That’s my point. You can believe what you want to believe but I’d rather you didn’t throw out numbers, like the above, when it includes distorted or mistaken facts and then stating you stand by those numbers...until you change them.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Mr Dee

[Floyd]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-funding-service-providers-1.5531194?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

here we go

Edited April 14, 2020 by Floyd

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

2 hours ago, do or die said:

Having pondered some of the recent posts......my new plan is to ingest as much gin, as humanly possible.....then jump off a 5G tower.  
Plaudits to follow......

To be fair, last years resolution was the same but it was a 4G tower.

7 hours ago, J5V said:

Just as an aside if anyone's interested. 

Influenza and pneumonia deaths, 2017, Sweden had 3,589. Covid-19 deaths, 2020, to-date - Sweden at 919 
Influenza and pneumonia deaths, 2017, Canada had 6,391.  Covid-19 deaths, 2020, to-date - Canada at 780 

Non-isolation vs isolation, that's what i see

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[Floyd]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

I’m not a 5G conspiracy guy but man if absolutely everything goes online - demand for bandwidth will get crazy

[The Unknown Poster]

This tweet tells me that trump has never seen Mutiny on the Bounty or didn’t understand it.  Although it’s a good comparison.  I suppose he would look favourably on Captain Bligh. Lol. 
 

Also he seems to think state governors work for him.  And he’s basically tell them to play nice if they want anything from the federal government. He’s extorting his own governors for positive press.  

[17to85]

17 hours ago, Floyd said:

So we shouldn't let one person die of covid - even if they are 80 with dementia...  but you're cool with letting someone's life's work and likely savings be destroyed... 

Hmm.

Well I have said that governments need to help small businesses through this too, but all that aside people's life's work is always vulnerable to outside circumstances. The guy I used to work for spend his life buidling a consulting firm and the oil  crash destroyed that one him. I invested 14 years and saw the rug pulled out from under me. **** happens. I feel bad for businesses, but I also stand by my comments that there will be opportunities during the recovery for those with the entrepreneurial spirit. The key here is living to fight another day.  

[17to85]

13 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

This tweet tells me that trump has never seen Mutiny on the Bounty or didn’t understand it.  Although it’s a good comparison.  I suppose he would look favourably on Captain Bligh. Lol. 
 

Also he seems to think state governors work for him.  And he’s basically tell them to play nice if they want anything from the federal government. He’s extorting his own governors for positive press.  

he should be really careful with his rhetoric cause if push really comes to shove and the blue states just stop supporting this corrupt federal government then he won't have any economy to speak of. Most of Jesusland is a third world country propped up by the blue states. 

[The Unknown Poster]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

he should be really careful with his rhetoric cause if push really comes to shove and the blue states just stop supporting this corrupt federal government then he won't have any economy to speak of. Most of Jesusland is a third world country propped up by the blue states. 

Its always a **** measuring contest for Trump.  And you know what that means (Stormy can confirm).

[Tracker]

13 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

So Trudeau goes with his family to the cottage this weekend. Meanwhile old Andrew Scheer takes his wife and 5 kids with him on the government plane to Ottawa. Brutal behavior by both.

Trudeau's wife and children had been at the cottage for three weeks prior to the Easter weekend and he chose to join them by automobile- a different scenario than suggested here.

[Noeller]

6 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Trudeau's wife and children had been at the cottage for three weeks prior to the Easter weekend and he chose to join them by automobile- a different scenario than suggested here.

and it's 25 minutes away. Less than a drive across the city. This story is being spun wildly out of control by Con supporters.

[rebusrankin]

I stand by what I said. Aware that it is 25 minutes away. Still think its hypocritical to tell people not to go to the cabin, not to get together for the holidays and then do just this. Now Scheer loading his family on a government plane was worse imo.

[J5V]

19 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Stand? You better sit down.

Where did get 10483? You’re trumping out misinformation.

You asked me where I got that number insinuating I made it up which wasn't true since it wasn't even my number. Now you say that wasn't your point when it clearly was. Nice try.