Covid-19

[Mr Dee]

3 minutes ago, J5V said:

You asked me where I got that number insinuating I made it up which wasn't true since it wasn't even my number. Now you say that wasn't your point when it clearly was. Nice try.

Oh boy.

What.   I’m saying.    Is.

You mixed data from whatever source with more data from another source and compared it with another country. That’s misinformation in another dress. 
You've got this bone and you won’t let go..

Sounds trumpish to me.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[J5V]

32 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Oh boy.

What.   I’m saying.    Is.

You mixed data from whatever source with more data from another source and compared it with another country. That’s misinformation in another dress. 
You've got this bone and you won’t let go..

Sounds trumpish to me.

Geez. That's a form of research, after all. If it supported your argument you'd be all for it. Since it doesn't it sounds trumpish? C'mon. I did let go of the bone when it became clear the numbers were askew and the gentleman in the video was mistaken. I then apologized. I can't be any more honest. You asked where I got the number. I calmly explained it wasn't my number and told you where it came from. You've got this bone and you won’t let go.

Sweden is experiencing a big spike in Covid-19 deaths right now and they've explained what they're doing and it makes sense to me. They're not in a lockdown and their Covid-19 death numbers are still way under their flu/pneumonia death numbers so that's probably contributed to their decision to not destroy their economy in an effort to save lives. Still they remain open to the possibility of tightening things up further. Makes sense to me too. I feel as bad as anyone else that people are dying from this thing but tough decisions are being made here and time will show who made the best ones.

Edited April 14, 2020 by J5V

[Tiny759]

5 hours ago, do or die said:

Having pondered some of the recent posts......my new plan is to ingest as much gin, as humanly possible.....then jump off a 5G tower.  
Plaudits to follow......

My cousins believe in the 5G conspiracy theory...  so careful apparently the 5G are giving radiation 🙄

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[Super Duper Negatron]

The whole cottage thing seems like a "use your best judgement" kind of deal. If you have a cottage an hour out of a major city, I can't honestly see any issue (Falcon, West Hawk, etc). In those cases, you are likely sticking to your own cottage anyways, and most likely would end up in Winnipeg if you needed health care. For Trudeau: 25 minutes out of the city? There is no way that is what people are intending when they say "avoid the cottage".

Kenora, Clear Lake, etc...those ones are trickier.

Disclaimer: we have a cottage at Falcon, so I am 100% biased here.

[do or die]

14 minutes ago, Tiny759 said:

My cousins believe in the 5G conspiracy theory...  so careful apparently the 5G are giving radiation 🙄

Choice was deliberate....if I am going, I'm going full bore...

[J5V]

10 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I think your doom & gloom, we're all gonna die if we don't go back to work, we must sacrifice the old & the sick for the young & the strong, the economy being destroyed is worse than the virus itself thingy needs to be tempered. I was curious as to how the Great Depression affected the mortality rate & found articles all saying the death rate went down & not up. Life expectancy increased as well. 

Here's one:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/great-depression-had-little-effect-on-death-rates-46713514/

Another:

https://www.history.com/news/great-depression-economy-life-expectancy

Finally:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2765209/

 

There's more of the same articles but I won't post them. It seems historians & scholars are in agreement that while life was difficult for just about everyone in the 1930's, millions did not die from starvation, disease, from freezing to death or from the economy falling into a depression. Indeed, life expectancy increased in the 1930's.

So then,  based on the information in the 3 articles above & others that can be googled, it seems the world would survive somehow & life would carry on. Therefore, I would only sacrifice my life to save my family if in danger. Not to save the local A & W down the street or Apple, Microsoft, General Motors, Sony or Amazon. In this economy at present, companies will fold & others will take their place. I expect that a lot of companies that we know now will not be around in the future when this pandemic is over. Ones that we have known all our lives. Opportunities will be created by entrepreneurs when these & other businesses fail.

The world survived the Great Depression & The Second World War back to back.  Europe, China, Japan & SE Asia were in ruins after 1945. The economy roared back in the early 1950's. My concern isn't Floyd's business. That's his problem although I do hope his business makes it even though he wants human sacrifices at The Altar Of The Almighty Dollar. I  have my own problems to worry about & those of my family, relatives & friends making it safely thru this pandemic. But if any of you want to sacrifice the lives of seniors who are sick then please think again. People who sacrificed to make a better life for you by building this country. If saving the economy means killing the weak, the sick & the infirmed then count me out. If you want to be be dead heroes & sacrifice your life willingly or the lives of your loved ones to save the economy then have at it. I won't be doing it. 

The articles state that a major cause of death was suicide and that it did indeed go up. Yes, automobile deaths went down. I don't imagine too many people were out and about in their cars. Tons of missing data from those days make it really hard for me to believe some of the author's conclusions regarding mortality. It seems there is a bit of a propaganda war going on with the Russians claiming 7 million died of starvation in the U.S. during the GD so now there are these counter-studies to disprove that claim. However, they do acknowledge widespread "malnutrition". The population of the U.S. is much higher now so the effects of an economic collapse are going to be magnified greatly. 

"There's a clear, and fairly substantial increase in the rate of deaths in 1934, and then again in 1936. The conclusion of the other discussion seemed to be that the Great Depression did not lead to an increase in deaths from starvation, but at the same time as some medical advances appear to be reducing the deaths from certain diseases, deaths from illnesses you can attribute to 'weakness' and therefore malnutrition such as Heart disease and Pneumonia sharply increase, and actually continue to increase substantially for the remainder of the 1930s.

Wouldn't these deaths be consistent with both the short term, and long term effects of malnutrition? Particularly among children whose development was stunted by calorie deficiencies?"

No one is espousing the virtues of sacrificing the sick and infirm for the sake of the economy. That's just a straw man. It has been stated repeatedly that exactly that segment of our population needs to be isolated and protected. The argument is to relax the lockdown and let the young & strong continue running their businesses, working and paying taxes, and keeping the economy afloat while we battle this virus and keep people like you (and me) safe.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

and it's 25 minutes away. Less than a drive across the city. This story is being spun wildly out of control by Con supporters.

And Sophie and the kids were out there prior to the suggested travel restrictions.

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, Tracker said:

And Sophie and the kids were out there prior to the suggested travel restrictions.

Whats the issue here?  That JT spent time with his own family?  Gee, string him up.

[SpeedFlex27]

57 minutes ago, J5V said:

The articles state that a major cause of death was suicide and that it did indeed go up. Yes, automobile deaths went down. I don't imagine too many people were out and about in their cars. Tons of missing data from those days make it really hard for me to believe some of the author's conclusions regarding mortality. It seems there is a bit of a propaganda war going on with the Russians claiming 7 million died of starvation in the U.S. during the GD so now there are these counter-studies to disprove that claim. However, they do acknowledge widespread "malnutrition". The population of the U.S. is much higher now so the effects of an economic collapse are going to be magnified greatly. 

"There's a clear, and fairly substantial increase in the rate of deaths in 1934, and then again in 1936. The conclusion of the other discussion seemed to be that the Great Depression did not lead to an increase in deaths from starvation, but at the same time as some medical advances appear to be reducing the deaths from certain diseases, deaths from illnesses you can attribute to 'weakness' and therefore malnutrition such as Heart disease and Pneumonia sharply increase, and actually continue to increase substantially for the remainder of the 1930s.

Wouldn't these deaths be consistent with both the short term, and long term effects of malnutrition? Particularly among children whose development was stunted by calorie deficiencies?"

No one is espousing the virtues of sacrificing the sick and infirm for the sake of the economy. That's just a straw man. It has been stated repeatedly that exactly that segment of our population needs to be isolated and protected. The argument is to relax the lockdown and let the young & strong continue running their businesses, working and paying taxes, and keeping the economy afloat while we battle this virus and keep people like you (and me) safe.

The facts are deaths decreased & people lived longer. They weren't dying in the streets by the thousands. Sure, malnutrition was a problem but isn't malnutrition a problem in Third World countries today? Even in 2020 malnutrition was still a problem. Like on First Nations reserves or with the homeless in this country. The more we don't self isolate & let the "young & strong" work the longer it'll take for the virus to be under control. So, the longer this damned situation goes on. Don't say it's a straw man conversation. Guys like Floyd & Trump would sacrifice the old & sick to make a buck. So, I don't agree this is some noble effort to get the economy going. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

The whole cottage thing seems like a "use your best judgement" kind of deal. If you have a cottage an hour out of a major city, I can't honestly see any issue (Falcon, West Hawk, etc). In those cases, you are likely sticking to your own cottage anyways, and most likely would end up in Winnipeg if you needed health care. For Trudeau: 25 minutes out of the city? There is no way that is what people are intending when they say "avoid the cottage".

Kenora, Clear Lake, etc...those ones are trickier.

Disclaimer: we have a cottage at Falcon, so I am 100% biased here.

If people in Kenora need to see a doctor or shop you don't think they come to Winnipeg? It's kind of 2 faced for them to turn around & say stay away. Same with Pinawa. 

[J5V]

Please give this guy a listen and give what he is saying a chance. 

 

[Floyd]

26 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The facts are deaths decreased & people lived longer. They weren't dying in the streets by the thousands. Sure, malnutrition was a problem but isn't malnutrition a problem in Third World countries today? Even in 2020 malnutrition was still a problem. Like on First Nations reserves or with the homeless in this country. The more we don't self isolate & let the "young & strong" work the longer it'll take for the virus to be under control. So, the longer this damned situation goes on. Don't say it's a straw man conversation. Guys like Floyd & Trump would sacrifice the old & sick to make a buck. So, I don't agree this is some noble effort to get the economy going. 

Haha... says the dude who voted for Kenney and the UCP and who has now become a self-annointed Jesus saving all humanity.  Same old ISO.

[Noeller]

23 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If people in Kenora need to see a doctor or shop you don't think they come to Winnipeg? It's kind of 2 faced for them to turn around & say stay away. Same with Pinawa. 

are you saying there's no difference between Kenora's population using Winnipeg's services, vs Winnipeg's population using Kenora's services......? 

[Floyd]

49 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Whats the issue here?  That JT spent time with his own family?  Gee, string him up.

Its so bizarre... every other essential service drives home to their family every day - Trudeau does it for a weekend and Canada freaks out

[J5V]

Buddy sent me this from up the street from where I live. Haven't seen this here in 30 years.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

Haha... says the dude who voted for Kenney and the UCP and who has now become a self-annointed Jesus saving all humanity.  Same old ISO.

What a dumb thing to say but then... you've been making a habit of it everyday on this thread. 

[Tracker]

From propublica.com

ProPublica is a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative newsroom. Sign up for The Big Story newsletter to receive stories like this one in your inbox.

In recent weeks, residents outside Boston have died at home much more often than usual. In Detroit, authorities are responding to nearly four times the number of reports of dead bodies. And in New York, city officials are recording more than 200 home deaths per day — a nearly sixfold increase from recent years.

As of Tuesday afternoon, the United States had logged more than 592,000 cases of COVID-19 and more than 24,000 deaths, the most in the world, according to the Center for Systems Science and Engineering at Johns Hopkins University. But the official COVID-19 death count may, at least for now, be missing fatalities that are occurring outside of hospitals, data and interviews show. Cities are increasingly showing signs of Americans succumbing to the coronavirus in their own beds.

ProPublica requested death data from several major metropolitan areas. Its review provides an early look at the pandemic’s hidden toll.

Experts say it’s possible that some of the jump in at-home death stems from people infected by the virus who either didn’t seek treatment or did but were instructed to shelter in place, and that the undercount is exacerbated by lack of comprehensive testing. It’s also possible that the increase in at-home deaths reflects people dying from other ailments like heart attacks because they couldn’t get to a hospital or refused to go, fearful they’d contract COVID-19.

Mark Hayward, a sociology professor at the University of Texas-Austin who’s an expert on mortality statistics, said all of those deaths are part of the “overall burden of the pandemic.” He said an uptick in deaths, specifically in ProPublica’s findings for Massachusetts and Detroit, indicates an undercount is occurring.

You should think about the official coronavirus death counts, he said, “as just the tip of the iceberg.” The quality of the deaths data will improve as testing expands and fewer people die without getting tested, he added.

[Floyd]

57 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What a dumb thing to say but then... you've been making a habit of it everyday on this thread. 

You always make things personal ha - enjoy your black and white world 

[SpeedFlex27]

11 minutes ago, Floyd said:

You always make things personal ha - enjoy your black and white world 

Been warned not to mix it up with you so... all I'll say is hope none of your aged loved ones get sick. 

[Tracker]

FYI

A Canadian company in Ottawa has invented a very simple, easy to use COVID19 testing device the size of a Keurig machine that produces results in under an hour for about $15.00. They have been besieged by American companies wanting to either buy the company or all of the production on an exclusive basis. The owner has refused to sell the testers outside of Canada until domestic demand has been satisfied.

[Noeller]

19 minutes ago, Tracker said:

FYI

A Canadian company in Ottawa has invented a very simple, easy to use COVID19 testing device the size of a Keurig machine that produces results in under an hour for about $15.00. They have been besieged by American companies wanting to either buy the company or all of the production on an exclusive basis. The owner has refused to sell the testers outside of Canada until domestic demand has been satisfied.

amazing...

[Mr Dee]

You know what else is amazing...