Covid-19

[HardCoreBlue]

Don’t project in how you are thinking? Weird statement. So I’ll ask you directly other then me trying to decipher your motives in critiquing others here. Are you hoping for a I told you so moment or do you believe you are assessing the facts better than some others on this board and that’s all you’re doing? Do you believe your liberties and freedom to move about arr being unnecessarily infringed upon or we won’t know until these next two weeks as you state? If you don’t want to share with others what you are thinking, absolutely your choice but it is a bit odd why you would take that position, especially with your critiques of others here. I knew exactly where J5V was coming from because he shared what he was thinking directly with us that some disagreed with here. I respect that, at least we knew where he was coming from.

 

Sorry @Floyd I didn’t quote your response for you to see. See above for my response your latest response with me.

Edited June 6, 2020 by HardCoreBlue

[Tracker]

Just to change the tone for a moment, there is very preliminary evidence that the majority of the COVID virus is being carried by what are called "superspreaders". The problem is that there is no quick or easy way to determine who these are.

[Floyd]

37 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Just to change the tone for a moment, there is very preliminary evidence that the majority of the COVID virus is being carried by what are called "superspreaders". The problem is that there is no quick or easy way to determine who these are.

Wuhan just tested 11 million people and of them only 300 were positive and asymptomatic - it was determined from contact tracing that they were not spreading the virus...  Covid is effective 'gone' from Wuhan - if you believe the Chinese...

Information is really quite variable right now - this could mean that there are two strains... who knows.

[Floyd]

49 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Don’t project in how you are thinking? Weird statement. So I’ll ask you directly other then me trying to decipher your motives in critiquing others here. Are you hoping for a I told you so moment or do you believe you are assessing the facts better than some others on this board and that’s all you’re doing? Do you believe your liberties and freedom to move about arr being unnecessarily infringed upon or we won’t know until these next two weeks as you state? If you don’t want to share with others what you are thinking, absolutely your choice but it is a bit odd why you would take that position, especially with your critiques of others here. I knew exactly where J5V was coming from because he shared what he was thinking directly with us that some disagreed with here. I respect that, at least we knew where he was coming from.

 

Sorry @Floyd I didn’t quote your response for you to see. See above for my response your latest response with me.

I like critical thinking and I like learning about all sides of issues - covid is a rabbit hole with different countries measuring cases and deaths in different ways, some articles go viral while others drift away, all very interesting.

Yes do not like to have my liberties infringed unnecessarily... and I have a strong mistrust of government motives - for example...

https://thenarwhal.ca/8-things-alberta-suspends-even-more-environmental-monitoring-oil-gas-industry/ 

...this was easy to predict... same as Trump destroying environmental regulations using covid as an excuse... etc etc etc

My concern from day one is not with lockdown but it is with the 'momentum' of lockdown...  I do believe that the 'cure' has fast become more harmful than covid itself - we are just starting to feel the repercussions - i.e. delayed cancer screening, the nursing home controversy, liberties removed, distrust between people, etc

In general, people still seem to believe that Covid is as dangerous and contagious as first reported from Italy and China... looking back, it is becoming very evident that this has more of the traits of a traditional respiratory disease than something entirely new.  But people now seem ready to shout down any dissenting opinions that don't fit what they were told - instead of seeking out new ideas.

I merely took offence at the underlying assumption that I don't have anyone in danger of dying of covid in my life and therefore that's why I am taking a skeptical view of expert and government advice.  If that was not your intention, then that's great...

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

I like critical thinking and I like learning about all sides of issues - covid is a rabbit hole with different countries measuring cases and deaths in different ways, some articles go viral while others drift away, all very interesting.

Yes do not like to have my liberties infringed unnecessarily... and I have a strong mistrust of government motives - for example...

https://thenarwhal.ca/8-things-alberta-suspends-even-more-environmental-monitoring-oil-gas-industry/ 

...this was easy to predict... same as Trump destroying environmental regulations using covid as an excuse... etc etc etc

My concern from day one is not with lockdown but it is with the 'momentum' of lockdown...  I do believe that the 'cure' has fast become more harmful than covid itself - we are just starting to feel the repercussions - i.e. delayed cancer screening, the nursing home controversy, liberties removed, distrust between people, etc

In general, people still seem to believe that Covid is as dangerous and contagious as first reported from Italy and China... looking back, it is becoming very evident that this has more of the traits of a traditional respiratory disease than something entirely new.  But people now seem ready to shout down any dissenting opinions that don't fit what they were told - instead of seeking out new ideas.

I merely took offence at the underlying assumption that I don't have anyone in danger of dying of covid in my life and therefore that's why I am taking a skeptical view of expert and government advice.  If that was not your intention, then that's great...

Not my intention at all. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Mark H.]

6 hours ago, Floyd said:

The rules are no gatherings over 50.  Not 'stable gatherings over 50 only'.  I have seen pics of Van and Winnipeg - sometimes social distancing and sometimes really really not.

You can't argue that we can only listen to the experts because they are experts and we are not... and then make excuses when we don't.

Regardless, if the experts were/are correct about covid's contagious nature, there should be massive spikes in cases and then deaths around the world after these protests.

Every time there has been a mass gathering - this board has been full of comments like 'those idiots'... 'Darwinism at its finest'... but now we expect that covid will take a break because BLM is a good cause?

You asked if we were going to see a spike in Covid.  I said 'it depends on where the gathering is.'  I wasn't referring to the rules of less than 50.

There are many places where probably nothing much is going to happen.  

 

[blue_gold_84]

4 hours ago, Floyd said:

This whole board is a constant I told you so moment ha - how long have you been here?  Its basically lord of the flies.

And you're an active poser on this forum. So, you're engaging in the so-called "lord of flies" thing, too.

Just because COVID-19 tends to affect the elderly more than any other population demographic doesn't mean we should just return to "normal" we had before. This novel virus has and still can kill people who are not old or in nursing homes. That's the reason why measures have been taken around the world to try and slow down the spread of it.

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

And you're an active poser on this forum. So, you're engaging in the so-called "lord of flies" thing, too.

Just because COVID-19 tends to affect the elderly more than any other population demographic doesn't mean we should just return to "normal" we had before. This novel virus has and still can kill people who are not old or in nursing homes. That's the reason why measures have been taken around the world to try and slow down the spread of it.

I’m no poser, yo.

and no one ever actually suggests we return to normal and have no precautions to protect the elderly so I wonder why people argue this point... however we shouldn’t act like it’s as contagious as originally believed

however I will be watching for a spike after these protests - I don’t think it’s coming at all and I don’t think elderly people will die - Hopefully the Italian doctor is correct and the virus is drastically weakening

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

I’m no poser, yo.

and no one ever actually suggests we return to normal and have no precautions to protect the elderly so I wonder why people argue this point

Because no specifics for how you would protect the elderly are ever stated.  You would have to do a lot more than tighten restrictions at personal care homes.  

[17to85]

12 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

And you're an active poser on this forum. So, you're engaging in the so-called "lord of flies" thing, too.

Just because COVID-19 tends to affect the elderly more than any other population demographic doesn't mean we should just return to "normal" we had before. This novel virus has and still can kill people who are not old or in nursing homes. That's the reason why measures have been taken around the world to try and slow down the spread of it.

More importantly than that, young people with the virus can spread it to the vulnerable even if they themselves don't get too sick.

 

Really what this shows is the people who are ok trading lives for normal day ro day life. Oh you're old, too bad for you.

[The Unknown Poster]

Specific to Manitoba I wouldn’t expect a big spike after the protests.  Because our numbers of infected are so low now and because everyone there were wearing masks.  

[Mark H.]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Specific to Manitoba I wouldn’t expect a big spike after the protests.  Because our numbers of infected are so low now and because everyone there were wearing masks.  

Precisely. Which is really exactly what the experts were hoping would happen! I mean, if we had thousands of cases, I guess some people would be saying that’s their fault too.  

[The Unknown Poster]

And I’ve got to be honest.  The truthers they wanted everyone to go out and live life and are now saying oh I thought we had to all stay home, can get bent.  For one it makes them seem opposed to the protests.  
 

More importantly this is historic.  It’s too big. Too important. And the fact so many protesters are actually taking precautions is great.   

[Mark H.]

19 hours ago, Floyd said:

We are warned every day that restricting lockdown must be slow to avoid a second wave - now we just mobilized massive crowds in almost every country recovering from covid...

Hundreds of people either die now... or it turns out that covid really was a 'nursing home' problem...

Interesting times.

 

Either Cinderella is a fairy tale or Winnie the Pooh consists of real life events.  

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Specific to Manitoba I wouldn’t expect a big spike after the protests.  Because our numbers of infected are so low now and because everyone there were wearing masks.  

Not everyone, I was watching the global stream and from what I watched it looked at about 80% of the people wearing masks.   I definitely saw many faces and was trying to pick out if I recognized anyone.  Absolutely nobody social distanced. 

[Floyd]

13 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Because no specifics for how you would protect the elderly are ever stated.  You would have to do a lot more than tighten restrictions at personal care homes.  

First of all your premise is based on misinformation - tell me why we have to do 'a lot more' than improve care and precautions for the elderly, specifically care homes - then the vast majority of cases are in care homes?  We need to focus 80% of our resources and efforts on elderly/nursing homes and make some minor changes elsewhere.

Anyway, some basic things 

- from the start, I would have alleviated crowding in nursing homes by either using emergency funds for ATCO trailers or booking empty hotels as covid patient quarantine sites; Denmark met with success because they quickly treated covid patients in hospital with oxygen - BEFORE the symptoms became critical - the difference in many other places was that we treated covid AFTER it was critical and that's why the death rate is higher

- basically return to 'normal' not a 'new normal' for the general populace - for people over, 60 they would be advised to wear face masks when in contained areas - planes, etc...  The BLM protests should soon tell us whether social distancing is needed or not 

- increase outdoor activity and nature-based activities for schools - no social distancing for kids but also I wouldn't lock them inside for 8 hours a day... the virus spreads mainly through contained spaces and through contained ventilation systems

- office spaces would need to be rethought as a 'new normal' - rotating workers between home and office and possibly staggered work hours - i.e. I would maintain a cap on 'office gatherings' rather than social gatherings... contagion is based on proximity times length of exposure

- mass antibodie testing as soon as possible to determine how far covid spread and then determine our test and track response from there - not sure why this is not being done in more places

- I would hold the ban on indoor concerts, meetings and conventions until we get antibodie testing - however, Trump will start holding rallies again soon so he will give us a good control group for that 

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Not everyone, I was watching the global stream and from what I watched it looked at about 80% of the people wearing masks.   I definitely saw many faces and was trying to pick out if I recognized anyone.  Absolutely nobody social distanced. 

We’re you surprised that 20,000 people at the leg and marching down broadway were unable to social distance?  There actually were people distancing to a degree. But that many people in that area made it virtually impossible.  
 

But again, needing a hair cut and protesting racism are two very different things. 

[Floyd]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

And I’ve got to be honest.  The truthers they wanted everyone to go out and live life and are now saying oh I thought we had to all stay home, can get bent.  For one it makes them seem opposed to the protests.  
 

More importantly this is historic.  It’s too big. Too important. And the fact so many protesters are actually taking precautions is great.   

A typical TUP post...  

You don't have to be a 'truther' to see the flaw in the logic that covid does not affect people if its a good cause.

To say that protestors were taking precautions is delusional - even in Canada, its a mixed bag - definitely not social distancing... 

But again that's my point - its easy to mock the Trump dummies when they gathered in public... but now that BLM is a good cause and a cause we all believe in - yet its contrary to what we've been told we can/can't do...  its tough

[Floyd]

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

We’re you surprised that 20,000 people at the leg and marching down broadway were unable to social distance?  There actually were people distancing to a degree. But that many people in that area made it virtually impossible.  

But again, needing a hair cut and protesting racism are two very different things. 

Not to a virus.

[rebusrankin]

I agree that protesting racism and protesting wanting to go back to the old normal are very different. I agree that advocating for change to bring about more tolerance and acceptance to society are important. However do you not see how people may get frustrated when they were told and continue to be told to stay home, social distance, don't see friends, you can't visit sick relatives or friends, you can't attend a worship service, you can't go to the gym, you may have lost your job but its ok for people to gather in large numbers for these rallies? I support the rallies, I am trying to educate myself but I still feel its a little like two sets of rules. If its ok to open things up for rallies, why not other things? Or is it a case of the risk is acceptable in this case because its for a needed change to society?

[Floyd]

2 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Either Cinderella is a fairy tale or Winnie the Pooh consists of real life events.  

Not bad...

But I still don't understand your position on the protests?

Do you think the protests will spark a second wave and if not, why not?

Is it because covid doesn't spread easily outside - even in large crowds - then there's no real reason not to restart the CFL season?

Or did the protestors 'use precautions' even though most images contradict this claim? It would follow that if we moderately social distance and a few wear masks we can go right back to normal - instead of completely restructuring society?

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Floyd said:

A typical TUP post...  

You don't have to be a 'truther' to see the flaw in the logic that covid does not affect people if its a good cause.

To say that protestors were taking precautions is delusional - even in Canada, its a mixed bag - definitely not social distancing... 

But again that's my point - its easy to mock the Trump dummies when they gathered in public... but now that BLM is a good cause and a cause we all believe in - yet its contrary to what we've been told we can/can't do...  its tough

Oh pal don’t start with me.  Save the condescension and rhetoric or don’t address me.  

I’ll restate my point since it seems to have gone over your head.  I’m specifically referring to all the jackasses that wanted to go get hair cuts and go to bars because it’s their right. And are now  trying to say everyone should stay at home.  Hypocritical.  If you want to side with those people go for it. But don’t get upset with the response. 
 

Mass protests certainly violate directives with respect to covid. But if you’re not sure the difference between a demand to get a haircut and protesting racial injustice in an historic moment in time, then you’re simply not going to get it. 

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Not to a virus.

Are you a virus?

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Not bad...

But I still don't understand your position on the protests?

Do you think the protests will spark a second wave and if not, why not?

Is it because covid doesn't spread easily outside - even in large crowds - then there's no real reason not to restart the CFL season?

Or did the protestors 'use precautions' even though most images contradict this claim? It would follow that if we moderately social distance and a few wear masks we can go right back to normal - instead of completely restructuring society?

 

 

we really need the eye roll “like/dislike” for posts like this. 

[Floyd]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Oh pal don’t start with me.  Save the condescension and rhetoric or don’t address me.  

I’ll restate my point since it seems to have gone over your head.  I’m specifically referring to all the jackasses that wanted to go get hair cuts and go to bars because it’s their right. And are now  trying to say everyone should stay at home.  Hypocritical.  If you want to side with those people go for it. But don’t get upset with the response. 
 

Mass protests certainly violate directives with respect to covid. But if you’re not sure the difference between a demand to get a haircut and protesting racial injustice in an historic moment in time, then you’re simply not going to get it. 

Dude you're the king of condescenion on here...

If anyone ever disagrees with your stance, you cry that they are Trumpers or just 'don't get it'

Your point makes no sense - its not about whether BLM is more important or not... 

Why would covid affect BLM protestors differently than Miami beach partiers or the haircut rebellion?  You don't have an answer so instead you resort to personal attacks as always.