Covid-19

[Floyd]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

we really need the eye roll “like/dislike” for posts like this. 

Or an 'I don't have an answer so I'll criticize this post without providing substance' button... 

[Floyd]

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2020/06/03/Vaccine-Will-Not-Erase-Pandemic/

Very good article explaining why 'waiting for a vaccine' is likely not a viable option...

NOTE: For those of you about to 'go off', Haseltine is just one of many opinions that I have read and considered...  so plesae save your 'youtuber' and 'so you think everyone is wrong' posts 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Floyd said:

Or an 'I don't have an answer so I'll criticize this post without providing substance' button... 

Nah a button to label posts that are obvious trolling nonsense. You’re whole silly argument is to judge the covid response based on numbers today.  Without factoring in if people like you had their way and they did no lockdown, the numbers would be wildly more awful.  And now diminishing the protests as some sort of asinine gotcha to people who criticize trumps response to the pandemic.  
 

If you don’t support what the protestors are protesting for, just say that. Stand and be judged.  If you think all the medics experts and government health officers over reacted then say it and be done so we can all move on 

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Dude you're the king of condescenion on here...

If anyone ever disagrees with your stance, you cry that they are Trumpers or just 'don't get it'

Your point makes no sense - its not about whether BLM is more important or not... 

Why would covid affect BLM protestors differently than Miami beach partiers or the haircut rebellion?  You don't have an answer so instead you resort to personal attacks as always.

Haha  What’s your problem?  Did your best friend get suspended from here or something?
 

read what I wrote again. You completely didn’t understand it.  And that’s not on me. It’s on you.  

[Floyd]

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Nah a button to label posts that are obvious trolling nonsense. You’re whole silly argument is to judge the covid response based on numbers today.  Without factoring in if people like you had their way and they did no lockdown, the numbers would be wildly more awful.  And now diminishing the protests as some sort of asinine gotcha to people who criticize trumps response to the pandemic.  
 

If you don’t support what the protestors are protesting for, just say that. Stand and be judged.  If you think all the medics experts and government health officers over reacted then say it and be done so we can all move on 

Another typical non sequitur...

You do this ALL THE TIME - jump in late to an argument... then make yourself sound like some kind of hero - you're the ultimate 'hey me too' poster on here... 'stand and be judged'... too much hahah

You still cannot answer why the BLM protestors will be affected differently than the haircut rednecks.  And I don't expect you will.

[blue_gold_84]

15 hours ago, Floyd said:

however we shouldn’t act like it’s as contagious as originally believed

Incorrect. COVID-19 is highly contagious, hence the measures and restrictions taken.

[The Unknown Poster]

12 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Another typical non sequitur...

You do this ALL THE TIME - jump in late to an argument... then make yourself sound like some kind of hero - you're the ultimate 'hey me too' poster on here... 'stand and be judged'... too much hahah

You still cannot answer why the BLM protestors will be affected differently than the haircut rednecks.  And I don't expect you will.

Again you’re just one of those triggered posters who has to insult a poster with nonsense because you’re incapable of making a point yourself.   I’m sorry if the discussion is beyond your comprehension. You should re-read what I wrote, think about it for a moment, and then apologize. You attacked me. Because you failed to understand. 
 

your continued whining about protests is either because you don’t support them or you’re really bored and just want to argue on the internet.   As I stated originally the issue is the people who were whining about covid restrictions are no seemingly on board with them if it means no protests.  Assuming that means they don’t agree with the protests is the logical conclusion

Get it?

[Floyd]

20 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Again you’re just one of those triggered posters who has to insult a poster with nonsense because you’re incapable of making a point yourself.   I’m sorry if the discussion is beyond your comprehension. You should re-read what I wrote, think about it for a moment, and then apologize. You attacked me. Because you failed to understand. 
 

your continued whining about protests is either because you don’t support them or you’re really bored and just want to argue on the internet.   As I stated originally the issue is the people who were whining about covid restrictions are no seemingly on board with them if it means no protests.  Assuming that means they don’t agree with the protests is the logical conclusion

Get it?

I get that you missed the point of my conversation with other posters...  and that your logic is really flawed and strange

The conversation before you jumped in surrounded two main questions:

- does covid seriously attack the general populace and is therefore not an 'elderly and nursing home' disease...  to that you have no response

- will the mass protests result in a second wave because they are completely contrary to our current covid protection policy - if not, what is different with these protests compared to the haircut protests...  your response is that BLM is a good cause so its fair for us to break the covid lockdown rules and risk the lives of our elderly and immunocompromised... i.e exemptions can and should be made for ideals/causes - correct?  I agree with this essentially.

If you want to debate BLM issues, you can read my posts on that thread to determine my position then we can chat there 

 

[Mark H.]

58 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Not bad...

But I still don't understand your position on the protests?

Do you think the protests will spark a second wave and if not, why not?

Is it because covid doesn't spread easily outside - even in large crowds - then there's no real reason not to restart the CFL season?

Or did the protestors 'use precautions' even though most images contradict this claim? It would follow that if we moderately social distance and a few wear masks we can go right back to normal - instead of completely restructuring society?

 

 

I think they basically just decided that #BLM protests were too important and they didn’t want to deal with the optics of shutting them down. I think they’re rolling the dice on this one. 

[Mr Dee]

45 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You’re whole silly argument is to judge the covid response based on numbers today.

Solidly based on, what I called yesterday,  “after the fact” data.

Based after something has happened.  
It’s easier that way.

 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

First of all your premise is based on misinformation - tell me why we have to do 'a lot more' than improve care and precautions for the elderly, specifically care homes - then the vast majority of cases are in care homes?  We need to focus 80% of our resources and efforts on elderly/nursing homes and make some minor changes elsewhere.

Anyway, some basic things 

- from the start, I would have alleviated crowding in nursing homes by either using emergency funds for ATCO trailers or booking empty hotels as covid patient quarantine sites; Denmark met with success because they quickly treated covid patients in hospital with oxygen - BEFORE the symptoms became critical - the difference in many other places was that we treated covid AFTER it was critical and that's why the death rate is higher

- basically return to 'normal' not a 'new normal' for the general populace - for people over, 60 they would be advised to wear face masks when in contained areas - planes, etc...  The BLM protests should soon tell us whether social distancing is needed or not 

- increase outdoor activity and nature-based activities for schools - no social distancing for kids but also I wouldn't lock them inside for 8 hours a day... the virus spreads mainly through contained spaces and through contained ventilation systems

- office spaces would need to be rethought as a 'new normal' - rotating workers between home and office and possibly staggered work hours - i.e. I would maintain a cap on 'office gatherings' rather than social gatherings... contagion is based on proximity times length of exposure

- mass antibodie testing as soon as possible to determine how far covid spread and then determine our test and track response from there - not sure why this is not being done in more places

- I would hold the ban on indoor concerts, meetings and conventions until we get antibodie testing - however, Trump will start holding rallies again soon so he will give us a good control group for that 

Ok, fair comments. 👍 

Some of the procedures you mentioned are in place at schools, so changes in other work places should not be far behind, or already in place. 

Where it gets tricky is when people have pre - existing conditions and/or compromised immune systems.  Also, not all of our elderly citizens live in personal care homes.  

[Mr Dee]

5 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I think they basically just decided that #BLM protests were too important and they didn’t want to deal with the optics of shutting them down. I think they’re rolling the dice on this one. 

The BLM movement was a long time in coming. It’s unfortunate it has to have happened at any time, but it could be a dangerous time for all involved. 
But, it is better to have happened after flattening the curve than before or during its peak.

You're right though, there would have been WAY more trouble had the world tried to stop these protests while they were playing out.

[Floyd]

2 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Incorrect. COVID-19 is highly contagious, hence the measures and restrictions taken.

Covid is not as contagious as we originally believed - I.e beginning of Italian outbreak and when our lockdown started - ie infinitesimal risk with casual outdoor contact, does not last on surfaces as long as we thought, asymptomatic patients are now not spreading it in Wuhan, etc

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

Ok, fair comments. 👍 

Some of the procedures you mentioned are in place at schools, so changes in other work places should not be far behind, or already in place. 

Where it gets tricky is when people have pre - existing conditions and/or compromised immune systems.  Also, not all of our elderly citizens live in personal care homes.  

The elderly outside of care homes are generally healthier - regardless I would Keep precautions such as visiting grandkids outdoors and having separate shopping and restaurant hours for high risk populations - no one ever suggests just going back to normal immediately - but we need to remain fixed on that goal long term and not just meekly accept a new normal...

There is some info coming out suggesting that many of the covid deaths were people who would not have died of natural causes during the course of this year... I am skeptical on this one but I’m keeping an open mind - need a few more sources before I buy in though

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

I think they basically just decided that #BLM protests were too important and they didn’t want to deal with the optics of shutting them down. I think they’re rolling the dice on this one. 

I’ve never debated the importance of BLM as a cause... i was on board with it twenty years ago to be honest 

however you are the only one to even sort of answer the underlying question - why would covid not spread like wildfire through these global protests... especially in the US with the police using tear gas on the most susceptible populations to the virus?

instead of anyone really answering I get accusations that I don’t support the cause - it’s a very strange world these days

[Floyd]

https://3downnation.com/2020/06/07/canada-west-university-conference-to-cancel-fall-sports-including-football/
 

perfect example of an irrational response to the covid pandemic - shut down activities - primarily outdoors in possibly the lowest risk and highest survival rate demographic...

I am not against lockdown - I am deeply concerned with the current and coming wave of ‘cover your ass’ bureaucratic response based on the outdated abd incorrect information that we have now accepted as fact - I.e exponential contagion and high mortality in general populace

[Mark H.]

22 minutes ago, Floyd said:

however you are the only one to even sort of answer the underlying question - why would covid not spread like wildfire through these global protests... especially in the US with the police using tear gas on the most susceptible populations to the virus?

Well, that’s because the answer I gave is the only one available right now.  They rolled the dice, and now we’ll wait and see if anything happens. 

As far as the U.S. is concerned, Trump shutting down the protests due to Covid 19 would simply be hypocrisy at its finest.  The media would roast him on a spit - to a crisp. 

[Tracker]

6 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Well, that’s because the answer I gave is the only one available right now.  They rolled the dice, and now we’ll wait and see if anything happens. 

As far as the U.S. is concerned, Trump shutting down the protests due to Covid 19 would simply be hypocrisy at its finest.  The media would roast him on a spit - to a crisp. 

Like he would care. And Faux News would hail any such move as divinely inspired.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

Covid is not as contagious as we originally believed

Got a source for that? Seeing the outbreaks in places like high river tell me it is highly contagious. 

[Brandon]

5 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

We’re you surprised that 20,000 people at the leg and marching down broadway were unable to social distance?  There actually were people distancing to a degree. But that many people in that area made it virtually impossible.  
 

But again, needing a hair cut and protesting racism are two very different things. 

IMO If the city is allowing a protest then ALL business should be allowed to re-open. You can't pick and choose when a virus and the health of the public is applicable. 

The 15 000 folks at the leg choose to be selfish and if they are allowed to neglect being responsible then why should the rest of the province need to follow the rules?

Or should the protest organizers also be fined heavily like local businesses for not following orders? 

You can cut your hair from home,  you can also protest from home.  

[The Unknown Poster]

3 hours ago, Floyd said:

I’ve never debated the importance of BLM as a cause... i was on board with it twenty years ago to be honest 

however you are the only one to even sort of answer the underlying question - why would covid not spread like wildfire through these global protests... especially in the US with the police using tear gas on the most susceptible populations to the virus?

instead of anyone really answering I get accusations that I don’t support the cause - it’s a very strange world these days

I said the same thing but you didn’t understand it.  Oh well. 

[The Unknown Poster]

59 minutes ago, Brandon said:

IMO If the city is allowing a protest then ALL business should be allowed to re-open. You can't pick and choose when a virus and the health of the public is applicable. 

The 15 000 folks at the leg choose to be selfish and if they are allowed to neglect being responsible then why should the rest of the province need to follow the rules?

Or should the protest organizers also be fined heavily like local businesses for not following orders? 

You can cut your hair from home,  you can also protest from home.  

Disagree.  It’s not the City letting them.  The other option is do prevent them. And that’s worse then the risk of letting them.  As we’ve seen.  
 

I think people have to look at this threw the lens of history.  This could (not saying it will) be a very major historic turning point on American history.  And yes there will very likely be covid spikes. But how many cities and states were allowing people to gather anyway.  
 

So another way to look at it is if people can pack the beach why can’t they protest.  

[Floyd]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Got a source for that? Seeing the outbreaks in places like high river tell me it is highly contagious. 

Dr Bonnie Henry in BC has been our best resource since the beginning - the risk of covid outdoors is infinitesimal - it is still contagious within a confined space as with any respiratory disease

the equation is and always has been ‘proximity times length of exposure’

[Floyd]

TUP is derailing the discussion as usual

the question remains - why will we not see a second wave from these mass gatherings - our lockdown is based on preventing exactly what’s happening all across the world right now 

the answers presented are ‘rolling the dice’ and ‘it’s a good cause’... but assuming that our current belief system is correct - we should see a massive amount of mortality within the next 3-4 weeks - why is that risk worth it now?

 

[Brandon]

37 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Disagree.  It’s not the City letting them.  The other option is do prevent them. And that’s worse then the risk of letting them.  As we’ve seen.  
 

I think people have to look at this threw the lens of history.  This could (not saying it will) be a very major historic turning point on American history.  And yes there will very likely be covid spikes. But how many cities and states were allowing people to gather anyway.  
 

So another way to look at it is if people can pack the beach why can’t they protest.  

I don't think the beach should be opened myself  *if* they are banning sporting events and local businesses from having everyone come in as well.  

Personally I think they should open it all or close it all... you can't give exceptions regardless of the cause.