Covid-19

[the watcher]

 " that if someone chooses to trust their immune system over the vaccine, then they are still welcome."

So by that logic 

" I just broke both my legs but I choose to trust my body's natural abilty to heal without a cast "

" I've got a painful cavity .I don't need a dentist because I trust my body will heal it "

" I've got a bad case of VD but my body's immune system will cure it and everyone else that I infect "

The stupidity of these people is still shocking . Way to go Manitoba government, health officials and enforcement officials for hitting these heartless bastards in the only way they feel it . Their pockets. 

 

 

 

 

[the watcher]

On 2021-09-20 at 3:19 PM, Sard said:

This raises a question... if the kids are all masked and regularly washing their hands (which I understand is the expectation), how is anything being spread?

The best thing I heard from an infectious disease expert was  " there is no safe, only safer " All the protocols, masks, distancing,  vaccines will reduce transmission, lower the overload on hospitals and reduce the severity of the disease if you get it. They can't eliminate it %100. 

[iHeart]

 

[WildPath]

3 hours ago, the watcher said:

 " that if someone chooses to trust their immune system over the vaccine, then they are still welcome."

So by that logic 

" I just broke both my legs but I choose to trust my body's natural abilty to heal without a cast "

" I've got a painful cavity .I don't need a dentist because I trust my body will heal it "

" I've got a bad case of VD but my body's immune system will cure it and everyone else that I infect "

The stupidity of these people is still shocking . Way to go Manitoba government, health officials and enforcement officials for hitting these heartless bastards in the only way they feel it . Their pockets. 

 

 

 

 

I have no problem with them "trusting their immune system". Go ahead, good luck with that. Maybe volunteer in a Covid ward with such a strong immune system. The problems with that are them choking up healthcare when their immune system lets them down and spreading Covid which drags down everyone by keeping significant levels of Covid around longer and keeping those who have a very weak immune system at risk longer.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Florida's new anti-vax surgeon general has issued a rule that no longer requires schools to quarantine students after COVID-19 exposure in the classroom. - https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/education/os-ne-surgeon-general-quarantines-mask-case-20210922-lb4ib37kxvcyliu27cgpwk6twi-story.html

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, WildPath said:

I have no problem with them "trusting their immune system". Go ahead, good luck with that. Maybe volunteer in a Covid ward with such a strong immune system. The problems with that are them choking up healthcare when their immune system lets them down and spreading Covid which drags down everyone by keeping significant levels of Covid around longer and keeping those who have a very weak immune system at risk longer.

As of today, the death toll from COVID surpassed the total deaths from the Spanish Flu pandemic, and the daily death toll is accelerating- almost exclusively among the unvaccinated.

[JCon]

Just now, Tracker said:

As of today, the death toll from COVID surpassed the total deaths from the Spanish Flu pandemic, and the daily death toll is accelerating- almost exclusively among the unvaccinated.

And, as science will tell us, mutating and becoming more resistant to the vaccine. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

23 minutes ago, Tracker said:

As of today, the death toll from COVID surpassed the total deaths from the Spanish Flu pandemic, and the daily death toll is accelerating- almost exclusively among the unvaccinated.

Not bad considering 4x the population now.

[Rich]

20 minutes ago, Tracker said:

As of today, the death toll from COVID surpassed the total deaths from the Spanish Flu pandemic, and the daily death toll is accelerating- almost exclusively among the unvaccinated.

People should be getting vaccinated, but you can't compare death numbers from 100 years ago to today, especially when it comes to a pandemic.  You need to compare percentage of population.   In 1918 the world population was between 1.6 and 2 billion.    Now it is at 7.8B.

[Jpan85]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

People should be getting vaccinated, but you can't compare death numbers from 100 years ago to today, especially when it comes to a pandemic.  You need to compare percentage of population.   In 1918 the world population was between 1.6 and 2 billion.    Now it is at 7.8B.

Although I think that can be negated by the fact that we are light years ahead of where they are medically now. 

[17to85]

32 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

Although I think that can be negated by the fact that we are light years ahead of where they are medically now. 

But also consider how much more travel there is globally.

[Wideleft]

Opinion: Conservatives are dying to own the libs. Can anyone use that logic to get them vaccinated?

 

Opinion by 

Sonny Bunch

Contributing columnist

Yesterday at 1:29 p.m. EDT

 

Arranging your entire political worldview around being against something can have very strange drawbacks. One recent example: A significant number of Republicans in a large number of red states are, essentially, dying in order to own the libs. At least one conservative writer is pushing back, but even his efforts show how convoluted and dangerous this strain of thinking has become.

This phenomenon, known as negative polarization, can be a potent force. It helped Donald Trump get elected president, after all. He stood against a media class that despises his voters. He attacked an elite class that considers Trump backers uncouth and unclean. He stood against immigrants who depressed wages and took their jobs. If you can be against enough things, you don’t really have to be for much of anything — a fact that also helped Joe Biden defeat Trump in 2020.

Another thing Trump was against: taking the covid-19 pandemic seriously. He denigrated masks, took risks that contributed to outbreaks in the White House and continued to hold live events, including election rallies and a rollout of Amy Coney Barrett’s nomination to the Supreme Court, that culminated in his own hospitalization. Trump’s opposition filtered down to his supporters: Though Trump could easily claim credit for the lifesaving vaccines that have dramatically curbed the coronavirus’s deadliness, many of his party’s members remain stubbornly resistant to getting their shots.

It doesn’t really matter how you break it down: Republican vaccination rates are lagging. You can look at self-reporting: When polled, only 55 percent of Republicans say they’ve been vaccinated, compared with 88 percent of Democrats. Or you can look at county-by-county numbers: According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, there’s a nearly 13-point gap in the vaccination rate between Trump-supporting counties and Biden-supporting counties. Or, most disastrously, you can look at per capita death rates: Ninety-five of the 100 worst-hit counties are in states Trump won in 2016.

However you want to slice it, one thing becomes strikingly obvious: There is significant Republican hesitancy to vaccination, and that hesitancy is swelling death rates. There’s something vaguely embarrassing about this, which is why you’ll occasionally see a Republican try to deflect from all of this data by pointing to other demographic groups as vaccine holdouts.

The numbers don’t really bear this out: Sixty percent of those who have received at least one dose are White, while 61 percent of the population is White; 17 percent of those who have received at least one dose are Hispanic, while 17 percent of the population is Hispanic; 10 percent of those who have received at least one dose are Black, while 12 percent of the population is Black. Still, it’s telling that the first response is to grasp for someone to be opposed to (recalcitrant minorities, in this case) rather than grappling with the ugly chain of logic the numbers of unvaccinated Americans reveal.

The thinking goes like this: The media and the elites are telling people they need to get vaccinated; the media and the elites are “the enemy of the people”; therefore, getting vaccinated against this disease that kills “only” 1 percent of the infected is bad. They’ll take their chances, thanks. And while I appreciate the fact that Republicans are in a tough spot philosophically thanks to mandate hesitancy — a hesitancy I, frankly, share — CNN’s Jake Tapper is right when he tells the governor of Mississippi, the state that now has the highest per capita death rate in the country, “Your way is failing.”

A philosophical resistance to mandates means people need to be persuaded to take the vaccine. But it’s hard to persuade people when they have already been persuaded by the websites they read and the talk show hosts they listen to that the people arguing in favor of vaccination are wicked. The result: Folks in Republican-leaning states (and folks in Republican-leaning media) are dying in greater numbers. And dying to own the libs has electoral consequences, as Breitbart’s John Nolte recently noted. Understanding he can’t make a straightforward case for vaccines to save the lives of his fellow travelers, though, he instead couches the fact that dying to own the libs is nuts by suggesting that the libs want you to die to own the libs.

“If I wanted to use reverse psychology to convince people not to get a life-saving vaccination, I would do exactly what [radio host Howard] Stern and the left are doing,” Nolte writes in one of the most fascinating political documents of our time. “I would bully and taunt and mock and ridicule you for not getting vaccinated.”

I wish Nolte nothing but the best in convincing Trump-backing Republicans that the path to electoral success and continued lib-ownage is to get vaccinated. If he can get his audience to finally take to heart the fact that 99.5 percent of those who are dying of covid-19 are unvaccinated, more power to him. But I do wish he spent more time exploring how negative polarization became the be-all and end-all in the Republican Party, to the point that it is a deadly phenomenon.

This might have undermined Nolte’s goal; no one wants to be told that their worldview is literally killing them. Still, it would be nice if we could figure out how to avoid hundreds of thousands of deaths in the future ahead of time — and how to talk to each other in a straightforward, sensible, grown-up way instead of tying ourselves in knots.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/21/conservatives-are-dying-own-libs-can-anyone-use-that-logic-get-them-vaccinated/

 

[Mark H.]

49 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

Although I think that can be negated by the fact that we are light years ahead of where they are medically now. 

Light years ahead medically but unhealthier in so many other ways.  Less physical work, packaged food, fast food, more sugar, etc. 

Seriously - imagine if candy were still something we had just at Christmas and maybe our birthday. 

[Tracker]

59 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Light years ahead medically but unhealthier in so many other ways.  Less physical work, packaged food, fast food, more sugar, etc. 

Seriously - imagine if candy were still something we had just at Christmas and maybe our birthday. 

Agreed. As a measure, Cuba, with all its flaws, has a better infant and maternal mortality rate, and almost a year more longevity than the US, which has loads more meds, diagnostic equipment and ORs. Cubans eat more basic foods but any of them can access a doctor within 24 hours.

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 hours ago, Rich said:

People should be getting vaccinated, but you can't compare death numbers from 100 years ago to today, especially when it comes to a pandemic.  You need to compare percentage of population.   In 1918 the world population was between 1.6 and 2 billion.    Now it is at 7.8B.

At the same time, advancements in health care, science, sanitation, and life expectancy would also normally skew the numbers lower. How much that is offset by a quadrupling of the population in comparing total numbers is hard to say. 

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Opinion: Conservatives are dying to own the libs. Can anyone use that logic to get them vaccinated?

Arranging your entire political worldview around being against something can have very strange drawbacks. One recent example: A significant number of Republicans in a large number of red states are, essentially, dying in order to own the libs. At least one conservative writer is pushing back, but even his efforts show how convoluted and dangerous this strain of thinking has become.

This phenomenon, known as negative polarization, can be a potent force. It helped Donald Trump get elected president, after all. He stood against a media class that despises his voters. He attacked an elite class that considers Trump backers uncouth and unclean. He stood against immigrants who depressed wages and took their jobs. If you can be against enough things, you don’t really have to be for much of anything — a fact that also helped Joe Biden defeat Trump in 2020.

Another thing Trump was against: taking the covid-19 pandemic seriously. He denigrated masks, took risks that contributed to outbreaks in the White House and continued to hold live events, including election rallies and a rollout of Amy Coney Barrett’s nomination to the Supreme Court, that culminated in his own hospitalization. Trump’s opposition filtered down to his supporters: Though Trump could easily claim credit for the lifesaving vaccines that have dramatically curbed the coronavirus’s deadliness, many of his party’s members remain stubbornly resistant to getting their shots.

It doesn’t really matter how you break it down: Republican vaccination rates are lagging. You can look at self-reporting: When polled, only 55 percent of Republicans say they’ve been vaccinated, compared with 88 percent of Democrats. Or you can look at county-by-county numbers: According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, there’s a nearly 13-point gap in the vaccination rate between Trump-supporting counties and Biden-supporting counties. Or, most disastrously, you can look at per capita death rates: Ninety-five of the 100 worst-hit counties are in states Trump won in 2016.

However you want to slice it, one thing becomes strikingly obvious: There is significant Republican hesitancy to vaccination, and that hesitancy is swelling death rates. There’s something vaguely embarrassing about this, which is why you’ll occasionally see a Republican try to deflect from all of this data by pointing to other demographic groups as vaccine holdouts.

The numbers don’t really bear this out: Sixty percent of those who have received at least one dose are White, while 61 percent of the population is White; 17 percent of those who have received at least one dose are Hispanic, while 17 percent of the population is Hispanic; 10 percent of those who have received at least one dose are Black, while 12 percent of the population is Black. Still, it’s telling that the first response is to grasp for someone to be opposed to (recalcitrant minorities, in this case) rather than grappling with the ugly chain of logic the numbers of unvaccinated Americans reveal.

The thinking goes like this: The media and the elites are telling people they need to get vaccinated; the media and the elites are “the enemy of the people”; therefore, getting vaccinated against this disease that kills “only” 1 percent of the infected is bad. They’ll take their chances, thanks. And while I appreciate the fact that Republicans are in a tough spot philosophically thanks to mandate hesitancy — a hesitancy I, frankly, share — CNN’s Jake Tapper is right when he tells the governor of Mississippi, the state that now has the highest per capita death rate in the country, “Your way is failing.”

A philosophical resistance to mandates means people need to be persuaded to take the vaccine. But it’s hard to persuade people when they have already been persuaded by the websites they read and the talk show hosts they listen to that the people arguing in favor of vaccination are wicked. The result: Folks in Republican-leaning states (and folks in Republican-leaning media) are dying in greater numbers. And dying to own the libs has electoral consequences, as Breitbart’s John Nolte recently noted. Understanding he can’t make a straightforward case for vaccines to save the lives of his fellow travelers, though, he instead couches the fact that dying to own the libs is nuts by suggesting that the libs want you to die to own the libs.

“If I wanted to use reverse psychology to convince people not to get a life-saving vaccination, I would do exactly what [radio host Howard] Stern and the left are doing,” Nolte writes in one of the most fascinating political documents of our time. “I would bully and taunt and mock and ridicule you for not getting vaccinated.”

I wish Nolte nothing but the best in convincing Trump-backing Republicans that the path to electoral success and continued lib-ownage is to get vaccinated. If he can get his audience to finally take to heart the fact that 99.5 percent of those who are dying of covid-19 are unvaccinated, more power to him. But I do wish he spent more time exploring how negative polarization became the be-all and end-all in the Republican Party, to the point that it is a deadly phenomenon.

This might have undermined Nolte’s goal; no one wants to be told that their worldview is literally killing them. Still, it would be nice if we could figure out how to avoid hundreds of thousands of deaths in the future ahead of time — and how to talk to each other in a straightforward, sensible, grown-up way instead of tying ourselves in knots.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/21/conservatives-are-dying-own-libs-can-anyone-use-that-logic-get-them-vaccinated/

This right-wing Breitbart writer thinks Democrats are using ‘reverse psychology’ to get Trump voters killed
This right-wing Breitbart writer thinks Democrats are using ‘reverse psychology’ to get Trump voters killed
Supporters of President Donald Trump await his arrival at the Kentucky Air National Guard Base in Louisville, Ky., Aug. 21, 2019. Trump was in town to speak at an AMVETS convention and attend a fundraiser for Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin's re-election campaign. (U.S. Air National Guard photo by Staff Sgt. Joshua Horton)
 Alex Henderson September 21, 2021
   
Veteran shock jock Howard Stern, now 67, has grown increasingly fed up with far-right anti-vaxxers, noting all the MAGA radio hosts who railed against COVID-19 vaccines before dying from COVID-19. And Breitbart News' John Nolte has come up with a very imaginative conspiracy theory, claiming that Stern — along with Dr. Anthony Fauci, President Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — is using "reverse psychology" in the hope of keeping "Trump supporters" unvaccinated.

This conspiracy theory, reporter Matt Gertz stresses in Media Matters, shows the ridiculous and "toxic" lengths Nolte will go to in order to vilify political opponents.

Nolte believes that Stern and others are railing against unvaccinated supporters of former President Donald Trump because they hope that they will be offended, express their displeasure by remaining unvaccinated, get sick with COVID-19 and die from it. Even by Breitbart standards, that conspiracy theory is, Gertz writes, "far-fetched."

In an article published by Breitbart on September 10, Nolte wrote, "Do you want to know why I think Howard Stern is going full-monster with his mockery of three fellow human beings who died of the coronavirus? Because leftists like Stern and CNNLOL and Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi and Anthony Fauci are deliberately looking to manipulate Trump supporters into not getting vaccinated."

Nolte went on to say, "If I wanted to use reverse psychology to convince people not to get a life-saving vaccination, I would do exactly what Stern and the left are doing…. I would bully and taunt and mock and ridicule you for not getting vaccinated, knowing the human response would be: Hey, **** you, I'm never getting vaccinated! And why is that a perfectly human response? Because no one ever wants to feel like they are being bullied or ridiculed or mocked or pushed into doing anything."

In essence, he's blaming Democrats and advocates for the vaccine for conservatives' refusal to get the shot that could save their lives. It paints Trump supporters as victims with little agency of their own.

This right-wing Breitbart writer thinks Democrats are using ‘reverse psychology’ to get Trump voters killed - Alternet.org

 

[Jpan85]

6 hours ago, 17to85 said:

But also consider how much more travel there is globally.

It was at the tail end of the war you had crowded ships of men going around the world.

[the watcher]

I'm not sure how you compare the 2 pandemics. To many changes. Just to add to the confusion, we had a very good vaccine enter the picture part way through. I'm pretty sure % 99 would have jumped at that in 1918.

[Tracker]

Michael Flynn Spreads Bizarre Conspiracy Theory About Vaccines In Salad Dressing

Trump’s former national security adviser, a QAnon believer, seemed to suggest vaccines might be imposed on people via salad.

Donald Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn appears to be peddling a new conspiracy theory that salad dressing could contain the COVID-19 vaccine.

Flynn, a QAnon conspiracy theory disciple who called for a military coup in the U.S. earlier this year, spread the false claim during an appearance on an internet show dedicated to COVID-19 and election fraud conspiracy theories, according to former federal prosecutor Ron Filipkowski, who shared a clip from the discussion on Twitter.

“Somebody sent me a thing this morning where they’re talking about putting the vaccine into salad dressing. Or salads. Have you seen this? I mean it’s—and I’m thinking to myself, this is the Bizarro World, right?” Flynn can be heard saying in the clip. “This is definitely the Bizarro World. ... These people are seriously thinking about how to impose their will on us in our society, and it has to stop.”

Michael Flynn Spreads Bizarre Conspiracy Theory About Vaccines In Salad Dressing | HuffPost

[Rich]

1 hour ago, the watcher said:

I'm not sure how you compare the 2 pandemics. To many changes. Just to add to the confusion, we had a very good vaccine enter the picture part way through. I'm pretty sure % 99 would have jumped at that in 1918.

People are people no matter what era.   There are always going to be those that question and not believe.   While disappointing, this really isn't anything new.  It is unfortunately human nature.

https://crosscut.com/2020/05/seattle-always-had-anti-vaxxers-even-during-smallpox

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

18 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Not bad considering 4x the population now.

Pretty bad considering the mass producing of PPE, knowledge and data from the Spanish Flu and... oh I dont know.... mass produced vaccines in under a year....

 

Sorry for the snark- it really passes me off that with the benefit of hindsight, mass production, medical miracles.... we are still in this boat ...

[the watcher]

23 minutes ago, Rich said:

People are people no matter what era.   There are always going to be those that question and not believe.   While disappointing, this really isn't anything new.  It is unfortunately human nature.

https://crosscut.com/2020/05/seattle-always-had-anti-vaxxers-even-during-smallpox

I  not so sure. I don't remember 1 kid who didn't get the polio vaccine and boosters or any discussion about it. Mind you it was a very small school and a small community so I'm sure there were some somewhere. But I don't think it would have been a there close to what we see today. 

Edit : lol I know I switched epidemics 

Edited September 23, 2021 by the watcher

[iHeart]

 

[JCon]

 

Winnipeg wins this round, despite Winkler's valiant effort. MOP is Monstrosity Burger for going full wackjob. Congratulations on a terrible name and terrible polices!

Edited September 23, 2021 by JCon

[johnzo]

4 hours ago, Tracker said:

“Somebody sent me a thing this morning where they’re talking about"

hey, he did the research!