Covid-19

[Brandon]

5 minutes ago, JCon said:

Let's just pretend that these are not Nazis. 

https://pressprogress.ca/meet-the-extremists-and-social-media-influencers-at-the-centre-of-the-far-right-siege-of-ottawa/

Once again... why focus on the 0.0000001 % of the population?  Why give those idiots attention or relevance?   

[JCon]

Just now, Brandon said:

Once again... why focus on the 0.0000001 % of the population?  Why give those idiots attention or relevance?   

These are the protesters. 

[Goalie]

22 minutes ago, Brandon said:

My mini rant/opinions:

I've known 5 different sets of people who were double/triple vaxxed and were very cautious and still somehow ended up with COVID.  All recovered fine and moved on with life.  

This isn't about truckers or nazi or whatever weird comments were above. 

It's so easy for people to throw stones and say stay at home for another 2 years and do what's right when they have cushy jobs that allow them to stay at home and live that life.     

I feel mostly sorry for the folks who have lost their jobs and the other ones struggling to get by because hours have been slashed,  I've lived pay cheque to pay cheque back when I was young and believe me it was stressful,  I couldn't imagine doing the same now with a house/wife/kids now to deal with.

I feel for those who have suffered mental health issues (kids and adults) for being isolated and just because you can be alone in a house for weeks on end,  not everyone is constructed the same way and some are dealing with massive mental health issues.  

Some people live in distorted reality in which money can be printed and given out with no consequences,  this isn't the reality of the world.   At some point the world needs to move on.  

People **** on certain political parties,  sure the NDP talks a big game now but if they were in charge and facing the kind of pressures that the Liberals/PC currently are they most definitely would be doing the same thing.  It's easy to talk big when you don't have the consequences to deal with.  Maybe look around the world and see what other countries are doing,  most are moving on with life.

I think the people complaining simply are entitled and live in a bubble / safe space and think that they deserve to be living in a Utopian society where we can't possibly have to live in a world that faces adversity. 

I agree that the current situation with ICU and our whole medical system is not where it should be.  Things should of been changed and if not should be in the process of changing on a Federal and Provincial level.

However the reality is that this requires a tonne of money so you have these options:

1 - Eliminate free medical care and go fully private  

2 - Increase taxes heavily to off set costs.

3 - Roll with what we have in which we don't increase taxes heavily to off set costs and just deal with poor services. 

4 - Do not increase taxes and create a massive debt for future generations to deal with

 

 

If you are scared to go out,  then be thankful that in todays world you could order basically anything you want online both groceries and products and that you have that option of staying home and staying safe.   You are allowed to wear a mask in public even after the mandate has ended.  

Maybe reflect and instead of focusing on the 0.005% trouble markers in protests  and maybe your own beliefs as well... maybe consider the 99.9% of the poputation of the country who may think differently.   The vast majority of the population support moving on.   

This is coming from a white guy with lots of money who works out of home and has no financial issues and loves to stay at home and play video games and not go out.  If someone like me can not think selflishly for himself then surely the naysayers can as well.

Just my opinions,

80 percent of Manitoba and Canada is vaxxed . These ppl are the minority 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Goalie

[Wideleft]

36 minutes ago, Brandon said:

My mini rant/opinions:

 

Way too long to be a mini-rant.

[blue_gold_84]

37 minutes ago, Brandon said:

My mini rant/opinions:

I've known 5 different sets of people who were double/triple vaxxed and were very cautious and still somehow ended up with COVID.  All recovered fine and moved on with life.  

This isn't about truckers or nazi or whatever weird comments were above. 

It's so easy for people to throw stones and say stay at home for another 2 years and do what's right when they have cushy jobs that allow them to stay at home and live that life.     

I feel mostly sorry for the folks who have lost their jobs and the other ones struggling to get by because hours have been slashed,  I've lived pay cheque to pay cheque back when I was young and believe me it was stressful,  I couldn't imagine doing the same now with a house/wife/kids now to deal with.

I feel for those who have suffered mental health issues (kids and adults) for being isolated and just because you can be alone in a house for weeks on end,  not everyone is constructed the same way and some are dealing with massive mental health issues.  

Some people live in distorted reality in which money can be printed and given out with no consequences,  this isn't the reality of the world.   At some point the world needs to move on.  

People **** on certain political parties,  sure the NDP talks a big game now but if they were in charge and facing the kind of pressures that the Liberals/PC currently are they most definitely would be doing the same thing.  It's easy to talk big when you don't have the consequences to deal with.  Maybe look around the world and see what other countries are doing,  most are moving on with life.

I think the people complaining simply are entitled and live in a bubble / safe space and think that they deserve to be living in a Utopian society where we can't possibly have to live in a world that faces adversity. 

I agree that the current situation with ICU and our whole medical system is not where it should be.  Things should of been changed and if not should be in the process of changing on a Federal and Provincial level.

However the reality is that this requires a tonne of money so you have these options:

1 - Eliminate free medical care and go fully private  

2 - Increase taxes heavily to off set costs.

3 - Roll with what we have in which we don't increase taxes heavily to off set costs and just deal with poor services. 

4 - Do not increase taxes and create a massive debt for future generations to deal with

 

 

If you are scared to go out,  then be thankful that in todays world you could order basically anything you want online both groceries and products and that you have that option of staying home and staying safe.   You are allowed to wear a mask in public even after the mandate has ended.  

Maybe reflect and instead of focusing on the 0.005% trouble markers in protests  and maybe your own beliefs as well... maybe consider the 99.9% of the poputation of the country who may think differently.   The vast majority of the population support moving on.   

This is coming from a white guy with lots of money who works out of home and has no financial issues and loves to stay at home and play video games and not go out.  If someone like me can not think selflishly for himself then surely the naysayers can as well.

Just my opinions,

[Wideleft]

31 minutes ago, JCon said:

These are the protesters. 

The organizers, actually.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-hospitalizations-in-manitoba-down-to-656-friday-four-more-deaths-reported-1.5777894

[Goalie]

I guess with today's announcement the protest ended and they left? 

Cuz the province of MB has no say on trucker mandates. 

I mean if this rally really Is about freedoms right? 

Is it over now or do they stay till March 1st in blowing snow? 

[JCon]

12 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The organizers, actually.

Same thing. 

[Goalie]

I know weeks ago Atwal said the protests or whatever Won't matter the data will but... it's a bad look for the conservatives right now 

They will lose the next Provincial election in a landslide and they know it.. pallister knew it.. Stefanson knows it too.  They done so they gonna go out and take as many ppl with them as they can. 

Trump conservatism at the finest.. bowing to nazis and white supremacists and the minority.  Just sad. Yuge sadness.  It's the greatest sadness in the history of sadness. Yuge 

Ps I don't want to brag but I'm doing this from my beach house on lake of the woods while eating Buffalo and playing virtual reality  golf 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Goalie

[the watcher]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

My mini rant/opinions:

I've known 5 different sets of people who were double/triple vaxxed and were very cautious and still somehow ended up with COVID.  All recovered fine and moved on with life.  

This isn't about truckers or nazi or whatever weird comments were above. 

It's so easy for people to throw stones and say stay at home for another 2 years and do what's right when they have cushy jobs that allow them to stay at home and live that life.     

I feel mostly sorry for the folks who have lost their jobs and the other ones struggling to get by because hours have been slashed,  I've lived pay cheque to pay cheque back when I was young and believe me it was stressful,  I couldn't imagine doing the same now with a house/wife/kids now to deal with.

I feel for those who have suffered mental health issues (kids and adults) for being isolated and just because you can be alone in a house for weeks on end,  not everyone is constructed the same way and some are dealing with massive mental health issues.  

Some people live in distorted reality in which money can be printed and given out with no consequences,  this isn't the reality of the world.   At some point the world needs to move on.  

People **** on certain political parties,  sure the NDP talks a big game now but if they were in charge and facing the kind of pressures that the Liberals/PC currently are they most definitely would be doing the same thing.  It's easy to talk big when you don't have the consequences to deal with.  Maybe look around the world and see what other countries are doing,  most are moving on with life.

I think the people complaining simply are entitled and live in a bubble / safe space and think that they deserve to be living in a Utopian society where we can't possibly have to live in a world that faces adversity. 

I agree that the current situation with ICU and our whole medical system is not where it should be.  Things should of been changed and if not should be in the process of changing on a Federal and Provincial level.

However the reality is that this requires a tonne of money so you have these options:

1 - Eliminate free medical care and go fully private  

2 - Increase taxes heavily to off set costs.

3 - Roll with what we have in which we don't increase taxes heavily to off set costs and just deal with poor services. 

4 - Do not increase taxes and create a massive debt for future generations to deal with

 

 

If you are scared to go out,  then be thankful that in todays world you could order basically anything you want online both groceries and products and that you have that option of staying home and staying safe.   You are allowed to wear a mask in public even after the mandate has ended.  

Maybe reflect and instead of focusing on the 0.005% trouble markers in protests  and maybe your own beliefs as well... maybe consider the 99.9% of the poputation of the country who may think differently.   The vast majority of the population support moving on.   

This is coming from a white guy with lots of money who works out of home and has no financial issues and loves to stay at home and play video games and not go out.  If someone like me can not think selflishly for himself then surely the naysayers can as well.

Just my opinions,

Let me preface my comments and say I am a big supporter of balanced budgets in most situations. One of the reasons is that it then allows us to run a deficit in tough times. I fully understand where printing money and hyper inflation takes us because Ive lived through it.  I'm vaxed, still go out and have been a big supporter of our rules. And would like to see the rules slowly reduced.

I agree maybe let's ignore the Nazis at these protests. But %90 the others that  are protesting have been fighting the rules all along. If we had followed their ways we would have overwhelmed our hospital system. Look up the numbers. Can you imagine matching Peru's %6 fatality rate ? I know  multiple anti vaxers whose lives were saved in ICU when they got Covid  because there was room for them. These are people who have fought any rules from the start. There is no nation, no society , no civilization ,nor has there ever been one that has not had restrictions on freedoms. What we can't allow is a small group of people to do is stop business,  stop trade, and give a black eye to this country internationally.  The City, the truckers association,  the business associations all are asking for it to be stopped.

As far as your solutions for fixing our healthcare system let's discuss #1 ,going totally private. I will ignore Switzerland because they are an outlier in every discussion on anything. Let's look at the US. MY figures are prepandemic  and off the top of my head but they should be quite accurate.  Cost, Canada - % 10.7  of our GDP.  US - % 17.3. Effectiveness, Canada 12- 14 th in life expectancy. The US 32- 35th in life expectancy. Just for fun see if you can name 35 modern, advanced functioning countries.  It puts them down with some very ugly company.  The last time I looked, the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US was illness. The vast majority of people in the US want universal healthcare. But their well to do people are quite healthy.  A totally private system can't even enter the discussion. There are many other systems we can look at to fix the inadequacies in our system. Interestingly France had quite a low death rate during Covid and their particular system is often rated very high. But there is no system in the world that wasn't overloaded in Covid. 

Finally I know just as many people who have been affected by the rules who are pro mask, and vax, as those who aren't. What we see at the protests and blockades are the childish ,arrogant , selfish and thoughtless ones.

[WildPath]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

My mini rant/opinions:

I've known 5 different sets of people who were double/triple vaxxed and were very cautious and still somehow ended up with COVID.  All recovered fine and moved on with life.  

This isn't about truckers or nazi or whatever weird comments were above. 

It's so easy for people to throw stones and say stay at home for another 2 years and do what's right when they have cushy jobs that allow them to stay at home and live that life.     

I feel mostly sorry for the folks who have lost their jobs and the other ones struggling to get by because hours have been slashed,  I've lived pay cheque to pay cheque back when I was young and believe me it was stressful,  I couldn't imagine doing the same now with a house/wife/kids now to deal with.

I feel for those who have suffered mental health issues (kids and adults) for being isolated and just because you can be alone in a house for weeks on end,  not everyone is constructed the same way and some are dealing with massive mental health issues.  

Some people live in distorted reality in which money can be printed and given out with no consequences,  this isn't the reality of the world.   At some point the world needs to move on.  

People **** on certain political parties,  sure the NDP talks a big game now but if they were in charge and facing the kind of pressures that the Liberals/PC currently are they most definitely would be doing the same thing.  It's easy to talk big when you don't have the consequences to deal with.  Maybe look around the world and see what other countries are doing,  most are moving on with life.

I think the people complaining simply are entitled and live in a bubble / safe space and think that they deserve to be living in a Utopian society where we can't possibly have to live in a world that faces adversity. 

I agree that the current situation with ICU and our whole medical system is not where it should be.  Things should of been changed and if not should be in the process of changing on a Federal and Provincial level.

However the reality is that this requires a tonne of money so you have these options:

1 - Eliminate free medical care and go fully private  

2 - Increase taxes heavily to off set costs.

3 - Roll with what we have in which we don't increase taxes heavily to off set costs and just deal with poor services. 

4 - Do not increase taxes and create a massive debt for future generations to deal with

 

 

If you are scared to go out,  then be thankful that in todays world you could order basically anything you want online both groceries and products and that you have that option of staying home and staying safe.   You are allowed to wear a mask in public even after the mandate has ended.  

Maybe reflect and instead of focusing on the 0.005% trouble markers in protests  and maybe your own beliefs as well... maybe consider the 99.9% of the poputation of the country who may think differently.   The vast majority of the population support moving on.   

This is coming from a white guy with lots of money who works out of home and has no financial issues and loves to stay at home and play video games and not go out.  If someone like me can not think selflishly for himself then surely the naysayers can as well.

Just my opinions,

Just want to contrast that with the reality that I know from working with some of the most affected families.

I teach a group of kids who have someone in their family that is at high risk of dying if they contract Covid. There are people in their families that have had to quit their jobs in order to protect someone vulnerable at their house. There are kids trying to take classes while in the hospital. These kids have not been able to see friends for almost 2 years because of the risk to their lives that it poses. They have accepted these realities because that is what is required to keep them safe. The more Covid that is spreading in communities, the more these families are at risk regardless of how careful they try to be. They can get Covid from the many doctor appointments they have. They can get Covid from going to pick up groceries. These are kids who desperately want to play with friends again, but a reckless attitude towards Covid places them at too great of a risk. While this is my experience with a vulnerable group, there are many other vulnerable groups who are similarly put at heightened risk and lose some freedoms because of uncontained Covid spread in communities.

It is so easy to pretend that the pandemic is over because we all desperately want normal lives back, but that fairy tale just isn't the case. Hospitals are still "flexing" for capacity which means normal operations are just not happening. This puts everyone at risk.

We are learning more about the lingering effects of a Covid infection, including for mild cases which would not be considered "long covid". There is an increased risk of kids developing type 1 diabetes after a previous Covid infection. There are likely also lingering effects in the brain and heart from Covid post-infection. 

It is easy to frame it as "scared to go out", but why not "scared to wear a mask" or "scared to get a vaccination"? Both should actually not be a big deal breaker when we are talking about saving lives and protecting from long term effects of Covid. If masks/vaccinations aren't mandated, those most likely to be infected/spread are placing an even greater burden on those who choose to stay safe.

The vast majority of the population does not support moving on. According to a recent Leger poll only 32% support removing all restrictions. In addition, I am assuming a lot of people are still underestimating the impact of Covid because of government attitudes towards Covid - "if they say if is over/safe, then we really should be opening up." This is not what the WHO or most medical experts say.

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the school divisions keep masks until the end of the school year.

School divisions did not impose the mask mandate, the cohorts, etc. I doubt that it's within their jurisdiction to keep the mandates in place.  That would need to come from public health. Just look at what happened when isolation requirements changed.

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

1) I've known 5 different sets of people who were double/triple vaxxed and were very cautious and still somehow ended up with COVID.  All recovered fine and moved on with life.  

2)This isn't about truckers or nazi or whatever weird comments were above. 

3)It's so easy for people to throw stones and say stay at home for another 2 years and do what's right when they have cushy jobs that allow them to stay at home and live that life.     

I feel mostly sorry for the folks who have lost their jobs and the other ones struggling to get by because hours have been slashed,  I've lived pay cheque to pay cheque back when I was young and believe me it was stressful,  I couldn't imagine doing the same now with a house/wife/kids now to deal with.

I feel for those who have suffered mental health issues (kids and adults) for being isolated and just because you can be alone in a house for weeks on end,  not everyone is constructed the same way and some are dealing with massive mental health issues.  

4)Some people live in distorted reality in which money can be printed and given out with no consequences,  this isn't the reality of the world.   At some point the world needs to move on.  

People **** on certain political parties,  sure the NDP talks a big game now but if they were in charge and facing the kind of pressures that the Liberals/PC currently are they most definitely would be doing the same thing.  It's easy to talk big when you don't have the consequences to deal with.  Maybe look around the world and see what other countries are doing,  most are moving on with life.

5) I think the people complaining simply are entitled and live in a bubble / safe space and think that they deserve to be living in a Utopian society where we can't possibly have to live in a world that faces adversity. 

I agree that the current situation with ICU and our whole medical system is not where it should be.  Things should of been changed and if not should be in the process of changing on a Federal and Provincial level.

6) However the reality is that this requires a tonne of money so you have these options:

1 - Eliminate free medical care and go fully private  

2 - Increase taxes heavily to off set costs.

3 - Roll with what we have in which we don't increase taxes heavily to off set costs and just deal with poor services. 

4 - Do not increase taxes and create a massive debt for future generations to deal with

If you are scared to go out,  then be thankful that in todays world you could order basically anything you want online both groceries and products and that you have that option of staying home and staying safe.   You are allowed to wear a mask in public even after the mandate has ended.  

Maybe reflect and instead of focusing on the 0.005% trouble markers in protests  and maybe your own beliefs as well... maybe consider the 99.9% of the poputation of the country who may think differently.  7) The vast majority of the population support moving on.   

This is coming from a white guy with lots of money who works out of home and has no financial issues and loves to stay at home and play video games and not go out.  If someone like me can not think selfishly for himself then surely the naysayers can as well.

Just my opinions,

1) I've heard this lots. Like it has some kind of meaning. Yes people do get it and recover just fine. But that just isn't the case for everyone. Not sure why one matters more than the other.

2) I agree that there arent a lot of truckers that are a part of this. Nazi's too, though 1 nazi is too many for me and they should be violently silenced afaic. However there does seem to be a minority of white supremist a part of this. Pat King is calling for today to be "Orange shirt day". We all know Sept 30th is also called that, for a specific reason. Trying to co-opt that movement is a **** head thing to do and again should be met with violence afaic.

3) I'm not sure I've seen anyone advocate for people to not work and just stay at home and do nothing.

4) Who do you think believes this? 

5) This can be said for 1 side. But I don't think it applies to the side you think it does.

6) The only answer out of this that will work is increased taxes or leaving the increased taxes to our children. Private won't work at all. And increasing our spending on infrastructure should have started 20 years before Covid. We are too far behind now, which is why every government won't do what's needed, because the taxes would be increased significantly, basically ending their hope of winning an election. On top of that, how many of these protestors do you think would support driving up taxes (not 1 or 2% like 5 or 10%) to get us out of this? 

7) You have no way of proving this.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Bigblue204

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

School divisions did not impose the mask mandate, the cohorts, etc. I doubt that it's within their jurisdiction to keep the mandates in place.  That would need to come from public health. Just look at what happened when isolation requirements changed.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that Manitoba Courts are keeping the mask mandates.

[Bigblue204]

8 minutes ago, WildPath said:

It is easy to frame it as "scared to go out", but why not "scared to wear a mask" or "scared to get a vaccination"? Both should actually not be a big deal breaker when we are talking about saving lives and protecting from long term effects of Covid. If masks/vaccinations aren't mandated, those most likely to be infected/spread are placing an even greater burden on those who choose to stay safe.

This is something I say all the time too. I've come across people who say "I got Covid, it was no big deal I was over it in a week etc Why are we acting scared?" But then they won't get the shot because of the potential of side effects. So when I say "I got the shot, my arm hurt for a bit and it felt like the flu for a day, it was no big deal. Why are we acting scared of it?" They tend to not agree with that stance.

[Mark H.]

14 minutes ago, WildPath said:

 In addition, I am assuming a lot of people are still underestimating the impact of Covid because of government attitudes towards Covid - "if they say if is over/safe, then we really should be opening up." This is not what the WHO or most medical experts say.

It is hard to rationalize this when you hear what Dr. Tam and other global health experts are saying.  Or should we just assume they are caving to people who are tired of the restrictions? That their decisions are not based on public health data?  I have a hard time thinking of trained professionals in that way, especially given that our Canadian experts have imposed some of the toughest restrictions in the world.  

[Mark H.]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I can tell you with 100% certainty that Manitoba Courts are keeping the mask mandates.

All I know is, school divisions have pretty much in lock step imposed and/or removed everything according to what public health directed.  

[iHeart]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

I guess with today's announcement the protest ended and they left? 

Cuz the province of MB has no say on trucker mandates. 

I mean if this rally really Is about freedoms right? 

Is it over now or do they stay till March 1st in blowing snow? 

hey I'm surprised they were still there even when we've had a couple of days of blowing snow, even Occupy Winnipeg couldn't handle it (remember when that was a thing?)

Edited February 11, 2022 by iHeart

[WildPath]

5 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

It is hard to rationalize this when you hear what Dr. Tam and other global health experts are saying.  Or should we just assume they are caving to people who are tired of the restrictions? That their decisions are not based on public health data?  I have hard time thinking of trained professionals in that way, especially given that our Canadian experts have imposed some of the toughest restrictions in the world.  

As far as I am aware, Dr. Tam has said that restrictions need to be reviewed once we are out of the Omicron wave. Maybe she did say that we should get rid of all restrictions, but I just can't find that anywhere. I've never heard her say anything about getting rid of mask mandates, but again, I could have missed it. I still have seen nothing stronger from her than saying policies will need to be re-examined to be sustainable for a longer period of time.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, JCon said:

These are the protesters. 

You are saying every protestor is a nazi?  Come on now.     Misguided and uninformed maybe. but calling people a Nazi truly shows how ignorant you are.    You shouldn't use terms like that so loosely and to accuse everyone of being a Nazi is terrible.  Shame on you. 

[JCon]

Just now, Brandon said:

You are saying every protestor is a nazi?  Come on now.     Misguided and uninformed maybe. but calling people a Nazi truly shows how ignorant you are.    You shouldn't use terms like that so loosely and to accuse everyone of being a Nazi is terrible.  Shame on you. 

They are nazis. Read the MOU. Look at their leaders. 

 

And, shame on you for blowing it off. 

[Goalie]

Do non nazis fly nazi flags? 

[Mark H.]

34 minutes ago, WildPath said:

As far as I am aware, Dr. Tam has said that restrictions need to be reviewed once we are out of the Omicron wave. Maybe she did say that we should get rid of all restrictions, but I just can't find that anywhere. I've never heard her say anything about getting rid of mask mandates, but again, I could have missed it. I still have seen nothing stronger from her than saying policies will need to be re-examined to be sustainable for a longer period of time.

"We need to plan for the different scenarios and just be ready for a time of emergence of new variants. But we've got to move on and see how we can make our societal functions closer to what they were before the pandemic."

"Tam said the possibility of new, more severe variants still poses a risk to future planning, but that it is time for governments and public health experts to "lay out a strategy and a plan towards moving back to something that is nearer normalcy."

https://www.cp24.com/news/omicron-may-be-peaking-but-covid-19-isn-t-done-with-us-yet-tam-1.5749861

[Brandon]

12 minutes ago, JCon said:

They are nazis. Read the MOU. Look at their leaders. 

 

And, shame on you for blowing it off. 

Super ignorant comment shame on you.      Seriously you make light of Nazis and throw that word on anything.            

Its as stupid as saying that anyone who voted for Trump is 100% racist/nazi/criminal horrible human.   If you think that way then I truly feel sorry for you.