Covid-19

[Floyd]

13 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What facts don’t we have?   I mean I’m sure you’re far more qualified than all the medical experts telling us the facts.  But whatever. 

You understand that the information that I am quoting is from the World Health Organization - i.e. the experts

This is the sad part of society today - if someone points out something by actually looking at the facts instead of following the denial or the panic.

Canada currently has a 0.017% death rate in Covid cases - that may change but the curve seems flattened in large parts of Canada.

[Floyd]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No, there are no both sides. This is a science argument and science doesn't pick sides. The effectiveness of the flu shot is what it is. Vaccines are for herd immunity and protecting the weakest among us.

I think what he means is that the flu shot we get addresses the flu strain from the previous season and the strains are always evolving...

[17to85]

Just now, Floyd said:

I think what he means is that the flu shot we get addresses the flu strain from the previous season and the strains are always evolving...

Yes and the limitations of it are well documented. That doesn't mean there is another side to any arguments. 

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, Floyd said:

You understand that the information that I am quoting is from the World Health Organization - i.e. the experts

This is the sad part of society today - if someone points out something by actually looking at the facts instead of following the denial or the panic.

Canada currently has a 0.017% death rate in Covid cases - that may change but the curve seems flattened in large parts of Canada.

Flattened because we're all for the most part taking extraordinary measures to keep it that way. The issue is always going to be that when things open up again it will spike. This is a very contagious virus. It's not necessarily the most deadly, but it spreads so easily you can overwhelm the system pretty easily. 

[Floyd]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Yes and the limitations of it are well documented. That doesn't mean there is another side to any arguments. 

There's always another side - I mean you could argue that flu shots should be focused on the young and the old as opposed to everyone simply based on capacity and supply

[Floyd]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Flattened because we're all for the most part taking extraordinary measures to keep it that way. The issue is always going to be that when things open up again it will spike. This is a very contagious virus. It's not necessarily the most deadly, but it spreads so easily you can overwhelm the system pretty easily. 

Yes I stated that lockdown worked very quickly in my original post 

Toronto-Montreal corridor is where the real challenge will be...  its also a population density virus

But the spike issue will need to be addressed - how long do you just keep people hiding in their houses?  At some point, we're going to have to say 'hey we flattened the curve, do your best to social distance but we need to start living again'

I think lockdown lasts one more month in Canada - but we really could ease it - in western Canada at least - by Easter

[Noeller]

They won't take any chances of this thing breaking out. They'll be overly cautious and the lockdown will continue for the better part of the summer. If we're all out and about by Labour Day, I'm calling it a win... 

[HardCoreBlue]

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Flattened because we're all for the most part taking extraordinary measures to keep it that way. The issue is always going to be that when things open up again it will spike. This is a very contagious virus. It's not necessarily the most deadly, but it spreads so easily you can overwhelm the system pretty easily. 

Again, this is all we need to know. Full stop.

No 'well you can argue this, you can argue that'. This is fact. Act on it. If you don't, you are being extremely irresponsible. 

[Floyd]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

They won't take any chances of this thing breaking out. They'll be overly cautious and the lockdown will continue for the better part of the summer. If we're all out and about by Labour Day, I'm calling it a win... 

I could see that as well... but I think you need the military to enforce that - I think we have a month of 'voluntary' lockdown before people start getting really squirrelly

One month full lockdown and half measures until Labour Day - likely limited interprovincial travel, reduced numbers in stores/public areas and masks

I think the end result will be a very isolated society - large stores will probably increase cameras and decrease staff - we will be fully automated after this for right or wrong

[The Unknown Poster]

18 minutes ago, Floyd said:

You understand that the information that I am quoting is from the World Health Organization - i.e. the experts

This is the sad part of society today - if someone points out something by actually looking at the facts instead of following the denial or the panic.

Canada currently has a 0.017% death rate in Covid cases - that may change but the curve seems flattened in large parts of Canada.

That’s not what I disagreed with.  If you had read what I wrote we were mostly in agreement.  But then you said I wasn’t reading facts.   My point being dont prop up the ravings of science deniers just because they finally grip, however tenuous, a logical point.  There is pretty of room for debate and discussion among the rest of us without giving legitimacy to those people. That’s all. 
 

the Covid vs flu debate carries no weight right now.  

[blue_gold_84]

20 minutes ago, Floyd said:

...flu season just over runs poor nations not rich ones.

You mean developed countries with advanced medical infrastructure deal with illness, sickness, and disease better than those without...? Wow, what a massive shocker.

The flu still affects developed nations, though. And more than it should based on how many refuse to vaccinate.

[Tiny759]

25 minutes ago, Floyd said:

 

Canada currently has a 0.017% death rate in Covid cases - that may change but the curve seems flattened in large parts of Canada.

Question, how are you calculating the death rate? 

[Floyd]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

That’s not what I disagreed with.  If you had read what I wrote we were mostly in agreement.  But then you said I wasn’t reading facts.   My point being dont prop up the ravings of science deniers just because they finally grip, however tenuous, a logical point.  There is pretty of room for debate and discussion among the rest of us without giving legitimacy to those people. That’s all. 

the Covid vs flu debate carries no weight right now.  

That makes sense.

Right now, GTA looks like the real danger zone in Canada... I'm actually surprised as to how its leveled in Vancouver

[Floyd]

5 minutes ago, Tiny759 said:

Question, how are you calculating the death rate? 

I click on the link and read the information.

[Tiny759]

3 minutes ago, Floyd said:

I click on the link and read the information.

Ok well maybe you didn’t read it good enough. It says 214 deaths out of 12924 cases in canada. That’s a 1.65% death rate, not a 0.017% death rate. Huge difference.

[The Unknown Poster]

If I was going to be suspicious of anything it would be trump embracing these death toll predictions.   He wants to put our worst case scenario so he can claim victory when it’s not as many.  Watch.  
 

and don’t forget his real prediction was zero. 

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, pigseye said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/the-coronavirus-pandemic-is-the-breakthrough-xi-jinping-has-been-waiting-for-and-hes-making-his-move/ar-BB128rTu?ocid=spartandhp

 

Interesting article, but if this is their strategy I can see it absolutely backfiring, ramping up their economy to produce crap we don't really need will do them little good if all Western economies and consumers are in lock down.

"As the geopolitical upheavals set off by the pandemic shudder with a force without precedent since the Second World War, some things, however, are clear and plain. China’s most draconian lockdowns have been lifted. Beijing is claiming victory over the plague. And the Chinese Communist Party is seizing what its senior officials are calling the “opportunity” of the pandemic to realize the party’s long-game objective of fully eclipsing North America and Europe in the global order."

"Battered by the worst first-quarter economic performance since 1976, the Chinese economy is now being shifted into hyperdrive. Production is already back on track to achieve Beijing’s goal of making 2020 the year the country’s annual Gross Domestic Product doubles in size from 2010 to $13.1 trillion. But Beijing isn’t just doubling down on its usual methods, which involve constraining access to China’s growing markets while securing technological and global supply-chain dominance in critical trade sectors, and otherwise resorting to crude foreign-policy strong-arm tactics to get its way."

 

If they tie their plan to ideology they'll create the opposite effect they intended, and create immense push-back.  We may not fully understand  how they operate but it's clear they don't understand how we operate either.

"What’s new is that the Chinese state is committing vast resources to a hybrid strategy of intensified propaganda and information control in lockstep with an aggressive Russian-style disinformation effort. Aimed almost entirely at western audiences, the effort takes its cues from several Kremlin-backed operations, most obviously the barrage of fabricated “news” unleashed on behalf of the Donald Trump campaign during the 2016 U.S. presidential elections.

Experts in the field say Beijing isn’t just selling a “narrative” anymore. The new strategy is intended to spread chaos and confusion and incite mistrust of governments in democratic countries. According to an analysis undertaken by the Alliance for Securing Democracy (ASD), a project of the German Marshall Fund of the United States, Beijing is adopting “increasingly aggressive tactics and techniques” and rapidly ramping up its messaging on social media platforms, often cross-pollinating with Russian and Iranian disinformation efforts and amplifying conspiracy theories from fringe third-party websites."

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/the-coronavirus-pandemic-is-the-breakthrough-xi-jinping-has-been-waiting-for-and-hes-making-his-move/

[Tracker]

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

If I was going to be suspicious of anything it would be trump embracing these death toll predictions.   He wants to put our worst case scenario so he can claim victory when it’s not as many.  Watch.  
 

and don’t forget his real prediction was zero. 

He is real familiar with "zero". It represents his IQ and empathy.

[Floyd]

23 minutes ago, Tiny759 said:

Ok well maybe you didn’t read it good enough. It says 214 deaths out of 12924 cases in canada. That’s a 1.65% death rate, not a 0.017% death rate. Huge difference.

Correct - that was a typo - thanks

Another study just came out citing 1.4% mortality rate 

Point remains the same however - Canada is doing a very good job

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

https://globalnews.ca/news/6774805/rcmp-fine-calgary-teen-physical-distancing-coronavirus/

[AtlanticRiderFan]

11 hours ago, J5V said:

I have never claimed that coronavirus is no big deal so don't make stuff up. As to the flu shot being ineffective, there is lots of support for that argument. I think the intelligent thing to do is weigh both sides before you decide. Personally I don't care whether you get a flu shot or not. I wish you good health either way.

You didn't come out and say that coronavirus was no big deal, but you have definitely downplayed the severity of it, and you have implied that the measures being taken are too extreme. But those measures are what will prevent the healthcare system from being overrun, and in turn, people dying because they couldn't get proper treatment. And if the measures don't work, it's because not enough people listened. But if they do work, it wasn't an overreaction; it means we took proper precautions.

[Floyd]

3 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6774805/rcmp-fine-calgary-teen-physical-distancing-coronavirus/

Yeah my friend's landlord just returned from Hawaii...  Whitehorse police said they would arrest him if he was seen in Whitehorse in the next two weeks

[17to85]

I suspect what we will see is a gradual loosening of restrictions. The thing will continue to spread, but hopefully slowly enough to manage.

[Noeller]

Mass gatherings will be the last thing to reappear, but I'm hoping businesses are allowed to reopen sooner than anything... 

[The Unknown Poster]