Covid-19

[FrostyWinnipeg]

This still revelevant but more so couple years ago. 

[HardCoreBlue]

57 minutes ago, CodyT said:

Maybe you're right. I don't think I'm void of critical thinking but have trouble cementing my opinion only because I think there is crucial validities on both sides. I'm not trying to gas light anybody. Merely trying to get a better scope. 

Also whether your fact/opinion is right or wrong, how does degrading someone else bring them any closer to your side? I can understand walking away from someone who is so far out in the strasphere, but why bother with the insults? It's petty and beneath you, or anyone else.

It just creates a further divide. 

To me the media conversation is less about covid itself but the fallacies I've seen with other subject matter of years and years

I think where you and I part ways is your use of the term ‘both sides’.

Absurdity no matter where it’s coming from is not a side.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, CodyT said:

Maybe you're right. I don't think I'm void of critical thinking but have trouble cementing my opinion only because I think there is crucial validities on both sides. I'm not trying to gas light anybody. Merely trying to get a better scope. 

Also whether your fact/opinion is right or wrong, how does degrading someone else bring them any closer to your side? I can understand walking away from someone who is so far out in the strasphere, but why bother with the insults? It's petty and beneath you, or anyone else.

It just creates a further divide. 

To me the media conversation is less about covid itself but the fallacies I've seen with other subject matter of years and years

What do you qualify as crucial validities? I am honestly curious. 

 

I will do my best to give you good information. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[bustamente]

I get my giggles from Fox News, it's the longest running comedy on tv, even their presenters cause they are not journalists don't believe a word they say, it's all done for ratings as they have unearthed a segment of the American population that is unread and will believe anything and follow anything that someone that they perceive to be better than them says

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, bustamente said:

I get my giggles from Fox News, it's the longest running comedy on tv, even their presenters cause they are not journalists don't believe a word they say, it's all done for ratings as they have unearthed a segment of the American population that is unread and will believe anything and follow anything that someone that they perceive to be better than them says

Disagree. Fox does not pretend to know more than anyone- they just echo and amplify anything their Neanderthal viewers might believe.

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Disagree. Fox does not pretend to know more than anyone- they just echo and amplify anything their Neanderthal viewers might believe.

This is a chicken and egg argument, but I do think that it's fair to say that Fox introduces some pretty horrible propaganda as well.  Looking at you, Tucker.

[JCon]

9 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Disagree. Fox does not pretend to know more than anyone- they just echo and amplify anything their Neanderthal viewers might believe.

Disagree. They've spent the last 30 years reshaping the minds of Americans, per Murdoch's desire to dumb down entire generations. He's evil and his empire is too. So many dead. So much blood on his filthy rich hands. 

[Mark H.]

47 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

This is a chicken and egg argument, but I do think that it's fair to say that Fox introduces some pretty horrible propaganda as well.  Looking at you, Tucker.

Absolutely.  And watch just one thing from Fox on say, youtube, and their algorithm bombards you with similar propaganda.

It is quite hard for older people (for example) to navigate and decipher fact from fiction.  

In dealing with people who I would describes as 'victims of propaganda and confirmation bias' I find that the social media algorithms create by far the largest amount of harm

 

[Noeller]

39 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Absolutely.  And watch just one thing from Fox on say, youtube, and their algorithm bombards you with similar propaganda.

It is quite hard for older people (for example) to navigate and decipher fact from fiction.  

In dealing with people who I would describes as 'victims of propaganda and confirmation bias' I find that the social media algorithms create by far the largest amount of harm

 

All of the platforms (even Twitter as of the latest update) now defaulting to the "For You" (algorithm-based) feeds is a plague on society... 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

All of the platforms (even Twitter as of the latest update) now defaulting to the "For You" (algorithm-based) feeds is a plague on society... 

It is a plague and a travesty.  And the same anger that they often present with, is what you get when you try to gently steer someone away from it

[Noeller]

30 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

It is a plague and a travesty.  And the same anger that they often present with, is what you get when you try to gently steer someone away from it

A bit of good news.... 

 

 

[Mark H.]

As info.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-flu-covid-deaths-surveillance-report-january20-1.6720677

[WildPath]

On 2023-01-20 at 8:33 AM, CodyT said:

After having some time to articulate my thoughts I think it comes out something like this.

Ultimately I believe the best situation is to protect the elderly and vulnerable by any means necessary. The economics and social mental health aspects are difficult to deal with but if I were the old, or vulnerable I'd appreciate my society looking out for me too.

I am double vaccinated, after all, though much consideration was put into that choice.

I also think wearing a mask is the right thing to do. It is no problem to me to wear a mask, whether I think it prevents spread or not. If it makes the person next to me more comfortable than I am all for that

Where I think a lot of " anti vaxxers " and even myself fall of is because of complete lack of truck in government, and main stream media. I don't trust fox, cnn, msnbc, or any major news network anymore than I trust a poster on here. Right or wrong I just don't buy what they are selling. I know an agenda is being pushed. 

Again this is just how I see it personally, not based on fact or fiction. If I don't trust the government or the media or any of the propaganda they spew, how am I supposed to trust the experts, scientists and health officials they bring on to tell me to get the vaccine. It is serious to put something into your body, especially when you lack confidence in the information being provided to you.

I thought the way the media and federal government set out to make vaccine hesitant people to be racists, disillusioned, crazy stupid people to be a major turn off to me. A vaccine passport to identify the "outsiders" was a major turn off to me.

What we've done here is create an us vs them mentality. The wealthiest people in the world have grown wealthier while the middle and lower class have struggled. We should be looking for solutions as a team through a very very complex issue instead of fighting amongst each other.

I do see that there are a lot of ignorant stubborn people who refuse to move on their stance or hear others concerns at all. A lot of this comes from the loud anti vaxxers. I see it happening with the vaccinated also. It just creates hostility and gets everyone defensive

I appreciate this post, but a few points:

- The divisions have been brewing for a long time, but have definitely become worst from the whole Covid situation and response. I think some people from both sides have a tendency to project the other side as the extremes of the other side. I think the right / alt-right has really used this to win political points and gain money/power. See - Pollievre, Pierre. An interesting book on the increasing political divisions is 'Why We're Polarized' by Ezra Klein.

- The rich have become richer, just as they've been doing for decades. I don't believe this is any conspiracy with media or government related to Covid that has caused this as you'd really have to have a ton of people in on it that definitely aren't towing the government message anymore (see below related to medical professionals going against public messaging currently). Like all crises, Covid just provided another way for rich and powerful to adapt quickly and take advantage in a new way.

- It seems to me the new government message (at least provincially) is to disregard Covid and get on with life. This was a fairly sudden change that wasn't based in medical reality according to many doctors (I believe the majority, but how would I really be able to say that for sure). Doctors Manitoba was critical of the province for this and many other doctors spoken out about it as well.

- If you don't trust the government or mainstream media there are several good medical professionals I follow. All of them are very much pro Covid vaccination and many have been outspoken that they mask up and encourage others to do the same, if not call on the province to reintroduce masking requirements. A small selection of ones I've learned a lot from: Jason Kindrachuk, PhD (Assistant Professor - Medical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases), Dr. Julie Lajoie (U of M researcher with PhD in immunology and virology) - I've talked with her personally and she's presented in my class, Angela Rasmussen, PhD (Virologist), Dr. David Fisman (U Toronto, Epidemiology), Dr. Philippe Lagace-Wiens (St. Boniface Hospital, Medical Microbiology and Infectious Disease). I think it is easy to find the odd doc to support whatever viewpoints someone may have, but I've tried to not have a selection bias for pro-vax, pro-masking.

 

On 2023-01-20 at 9:05 AM, Wideleft said:

Oh boy!

This is why you've made yourself a target around here.    The weakness in almost all your arguments is that you speak in absolutes when all you have is your own anecdotal evidence as "research".  You seem incapable of comprehending complexity or nuance because it's just easier to relate your "knowledge" based on what you see in your small corner of the world.

To top it off, you have the nerve to suggest that your detractors (like me) get off social media because it's poisoning our minds.  As someone who constantly provides links to information, I suspect that you can't even access half of them.  Do you even subscribe, bro?

A problem is that he tries to argue what is and what he sees anecdotally as a counter to arguments about what ought to be. Its like saying we shouldn't fight climate change because he sees cars driving around daily. I'm not sure if its an intentional lack of critical thinking or just an attempt to make a convenient argument that hopefully nobody will see through. Saying that this board has some type of selection bias for people who believe Covid is serious where nobody in "the real world" would argue against him is also pretty odd.

Edited January 21, 2023 by WildPath

[Tracker]

                                               

[Wideleft]

COVID-19 misinformation cost at least 2,800 lives and $300M, new report says

 

Report examines how vaccine hesitancy affected COVID-19 infections, hospitalizations and deaths

Darren Major · CBC News · Posted: Jan 26, 2023 5:00 AM CST | Last Updated: 10 hours ago

 

The spread of COVID-19 misinformation in Canada cost at least 2,800 lives and $300 million in hospital expenses over nine months of the pandemic, according to estimates in a new report out Thursday.

The report — released by the Council of Canadian Academies (CCA), an independent research organization that receives federal funding — examined how misinformation affected COVID infections, hospitalizations and deaths between March and November of 2021.

The authors suggest that misinformation contributed to vaccine hesitancy for 2.3 million Canadians. Had more people been willing to roll up their sleeves when a vaccine was first available to them, Canada could have seen roughly 200,000 fewer COVID cases and 13,000 fewer hospitalizations, the report says.

Alex Himelfarb, chair of the expert panel that wrote the report, said that its estimates are very conservative because it only examined a nine-month period of the pandemic.

"It's pretty clear that tens of thousands of hospitalizations did occur because of misinformation," Himelfarb told reporters. "We are confident that those are conservative estimates."

Himelfarb also said the $300 million estimate covers only hospital costs — the study didn't include indirect costs associated with factors such as delayed elective surgeries and lost wages.

A number of studies have found that getting vaccinated can reduce the risk of COVID infection and hospitalization. But only 80 per cent of Canadians have been fully vaccinated, according to the latest data from Health Canada.

The CCA report defines two groups of vaccine-hesitant individuals: those who were reluctant to get a shot and those who refused. It says that reluctant individuals expressed concerns about vaccines in general and questioned the speed with which COVID vaccines were developed.

Vaccine refusers, on the other hand, were more likely to believe that the pandemic is a hoax or greatly exaggerated, the report says.

Beyond the health impacts, misinformation is depriving people of their right to be informed, said Stephan Lewandowsky, a professor at the University of Bristol's School of Psychological Science in the U.K. and one of the report's authors.

"In a democracy, the public should be able to understand the risks we're facing … and act on that basis," he said. "But if you're drenched in misinformation … then you're distorting the public's ability — and you're denying people the right — to be informed about the risks they're facing."

The report says misinformation relies on simple messages meant to evoke emotional reactions. It says misinformation is often presented as coming from a credible source, such as a scientific publication.

Ideology can play a role: authors

The authors also suggest that misinformation can be driven by someone's personal worldview, ideology or political identity.

"Denial of collective action problems is going to be very [prevalent] among people who don't like collective action," Himelfarb said, noting that misinformation can flow into political messaging.

"When misinformation becomes tied up with identity and ideology, political leaders will often look to misinformation as a means of building their coalition," he said. He did not point to any single politician.

People's Party of Canada Leader Maxime Bernier, a vocal opponent of COVID-19 public health restrictions and vaccine passports, appeared to unify a portion of the electorate that views pandemic policies as government overreach when he finished with roughly five per cent of the vote in the 2021 election.

Lewandowsky said social media can contribute to the spread of misinformation, but policies to counter such misinformation — such as requiring labels on inaccurate information — could help.

Himelfarb said it's important to balance tackling misinformation with freedom of expression.

"Finding that sweet spot is a challenge," he said.

Lewandowsky said one way to strike a balance would be to make sure reliable information is more widely available and to give people tools to identify misinformation.

"The people who do misinform us have a certain repertoire of rhetorical techniques … and we can identify those," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cost-of-covid-19-misinformation-study-1.6726356

[HardCoreBlue]

52 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

COVID-19 misinformation cost at least 2,800 lives and $300M, new report says

 

Report examines how vaccine hesitancy affected COVID-19 infections, hospitalizations and deaths

Darren Major · CBC News · Posted: Jan 26, 2023 5:00 AM CST | Last Updated: 10 hours ago

 

The spread of COVID-19 misinformation in Canada cost at least 2,800 lives and $300 million in hospital expenses over nine months of the pandemic, according to estimates in a new report out Thursday.

The report — released by the Council of Canadian Academies (CCA), an independent research organization that receives federal funding — examined how misinformation affected COVID infections, hospitalizations and deaths between March and November of 2021.

The authors suggest that misinformation contributed to vaccine hesitancy for 2.3 million Canadians. Had more people been willing to roll up their sleeves when a vaccine was first available to them, Canada could have seen roughly 200,000 fewer COVID cases and 13,000 fewer hospitalizations, the report says.

Alex Himelfarb, chair of the expert panel that wrote the report, said that its estimates are very conservative because it only examined a nine-month period of the pandemic.

"It's pretty clear that tens of thousands of hospitalizations did occur because of misinformation," Himelfarb told reporters. "We are confident that those are conservative estimates."

Himelfarb also said the $300 million estimate covers only hospital costs — the study didn't include indirect costs associated with factors such as delayed elective surgeries and lost wages.

A number of studies have found that getting vaccinated can reduce the risk of COVID infection and hospitalization. But only 80 per cent of Canadians have been fully vaccinated, according to the latest data from Health Canada.

The CCA report defines two groups of vaccine-hesitant individuals: those who were reluctant to get a shot and those who refused. It says that reluctant individuals expressed concerns about vaccines in general and questioned the speed with which COVID vaccines were developed.

Vaccine refusers, on the other hand, were more likely to believe that the pandemic is a hoax or greatly exaggerated, the report says.

Beyond the health impacts, misinformation is depriving people of their right to be informed, said Stephan Lewandowsky, a professor at the University of Bristol's School of Psychological Science in the U.K. and one of the report's authors.

"In a democracy, the public should be able to understand the risks we're facing … and act on that basis," he said. "But if you're drenched in misinformation … then you're distorting the public's ability — and you're denying people the right — to be informed about the risks they're facing."

The report says misinformation relies on simple messages meant to evoke emotional reactions. It says misinformation is often presented as coming from a credible source, such as a scientific publication.

Ideology can play a role: authors

The authors also suggest that misinformation can be driven by someone's personal worldview, ideology or political identity.

"Denial of collective action problems is going to be very [prevalent] among people who don't like collective action," Himelfarb said, noting that misinformation can flow into political messaging.

"When misinformation becomes tied up with identity and ideology, political leaders will often look to misinformation as a means of building their coalition," he said. He did not point to any single politician.

People's Party of Canada Leader Maxime Bernier, a vocal opponent of COVID-19 public health restrictions and vaccine passports, appeared to unify a portion of the electorate that views pandemic policies as government overreach when he finished with roughly five per cent of the vote in the 2021 election.

Lewandowsky said social media can contribute to the spread of misinformation, but policies to counter such misinformation — such as requiring labels on inaccurate information — could help.

Himelfarb said it's important to balance tackling misinformation with freedom of expression.

"Finding that sweet spot is a challenge," he said.

Lewandowsky said one way to strike a balance would be to make sure reliable information is more widely available and to give people tools to identify misinformation.

"The people who do misinform us have a certain repertoire of rhetorical techniques … and we can identify those," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cost-of-covid-19-misinformation-study-1.6726356

So what happens, and you can thank social media for this, is when I am spreading misinformation, lies (whether on purpose or I genuinely believe in these lies) and I'm countered with facts, all I do then is seed doubt with these facts being thrown at me by playing the victim, I'm the bearer of truths and these people who are countering with their facts are lying and spreading misinformation to counter the original lies I used.

Mission accomplished to seed confusion, doubt everywhere and create a both sides argument when in fact there is only one side, the side of fact, i.e., science doesn't care about your 'opinions'.

[Goalie]

I recently started a new job (I won some lotto money a while ago and quit the grocery store but was getting bored with my kid at school all day)working for the city and I take the bus to work,*parking aint worth it* *ecopass is* I've noticed that the ppl who wear masks (myself and others) aren't hacking all ride long and ppl who aren't wearing masks are. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Goalie

[WildPath]

But think of how much the economy was stimulated! I'm sure if you look at the books from Rebel News and the like, their profits went through the roof by feeding the misinformation.

[Bigblue204]

12 hours ago, WildPath said:

But think of how much the economy was stimulated! I'm sure if you look at the books from Rebel News and the like, their profits went through the roof by feeding the misinformation.

Most of the if not all the "leaders" in the antivax category have started to sell things. Malone is selling supplements that protect your heart.

[HardCoreBlue]

12 hours ago, WildPath said:

But think of how much the economy was stimulated! I'm sure if you look at the books from Rebel News and the like, their profits went through the roof by feeding the misinformation.

Capitalism at it’s finest. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

13 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Crapitalism at it’s finest. 

Fixed it for you.

[Tracker]

 

                            

[Tracker]

 

                      

WHO: COVID Still An Emergency But Nearing 'Inflection' Point

GENEVA (AP) — The coronavirus remains a global health emergency, the World Health Organization chief said Monday, after a key advisory panel found the pandemic may be nearing an “inflexion point” where higher levels of immunity can lower virus-related deaths.

Speaking at the opening of WHO’s annual executive board meeting, WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said “there is no doubt that we’re in a far better situation now” than a year ago — when the highly transmissible Omicron variant was at its peak.
But Tedros warned that in the last eight weeks, at least 170,000 people have died around the world in connection with the coronavirus. He called for at-risk groups to be fully vaccinated, an increase in testing and early use of antivirals, an expansion of lab networks, and a fight against “misinformation” about the pandemic.

“We remain hopeful that in the coming year, the world will transition to a new phase in which we reduce hospitalizations and deaths to the lowest possible level,” he said.

Tedros’ comments came moments after WHO released findings of its emergency committee on the pandemic which reported that some 13.1 billion doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been administered — with nearly 90% of health workers and more than four in five people over 60 years of age having completed the first series of jabs.

“The committee acknowledged that the COVID-19 pandemic may be approaching an inflexion point,” WHO said in a statement. Higher levels of immunity worldwide through vaccination or infection “may limit the impact” of the virus that causes COVID-19 on “morbidity and mortality,” the committee said.

[Mark H.]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-covid-booster-recommendations-change-1.6735069

[Super Duper Negatron]

2 hours ago, Mark H. said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-covid-booster-recommendations-change-1.6735069

Studies appear to be coming out that are also confirming this approach for younger (under 50) healthy people. I have my first 3 and honestly am torn on whether to get another at this point.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Super Duper Negatron