Covid-19

[Noeller]

I believe it's been mentioned many many times on here, but Canada has some of the most stringent protocols for approving new medicines. It wouldn't get approved for use in this country unless it's been through all the tests. I'll continue to trust the doctors and scientists. 

[bluto]

I know, I know... But they did approve it in this country without all the tests.

So please forgive me if I can't get past this sort of word-wizardry:

Quote

"Health Canada has put in place a fast-tracked review process to assess COVID-19 vaccines. If manufacturers apply through the interim order process, we're able to start the review process right away. We are also able to review any new evidence as it becomes available, instead of waiting until all studies are completed. We've dedicated more scientific resources to complete these reviews so that they're done quickly but without cutting corners."

Do what you reason to be right for your situation and I'll still be hopeful for everyone's best outcome. Just praying that they don't lock us down again. 

[HardCoreBlue]

8 hours ago, Noeller said:

I believe it's been mentioned many many times on here, but Canada has some of the most stringent protocols for approving new medicines. It wouldn't get approved for use in this country unless it's been through all the tests. I'll continue to trust the doctors and scientists. 

And I would assume the people who greatly scrutinize and place a heavy amount of skepticism around the validity, purpose and composition of these specific vaccines for this virus put the same amount of their energy, vigour and focus into all the medical care treatments they are told to put into their bodies to treat other conditions they may be experiencing and the food/drink they ingest?

8 hours ago, Noeller said:

I believe it's been mentioned many many times on here, but Canada has some of the most stringent protocols for approving new medicines. It wouldn't get approved for use in this country unless it's been through all the tests. I'll continue to trust the doctors and scientists. 

Yup you know the people who have actually been formally educated and trained in these areas.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

In a deviation from federal recommendations, Florida Gov. DeSantis' administration is advising residents under the age of 65 not to get the new Covid boosters from Pfizer and Moderna. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/desantis-administration-advises-no-covid-shots-under-65-rcna104912

It's related to topic 

 

[Noeller]

lunatic..... willfully killing the most vulnerable. 

[bluto]

Looks like "safe & effective" is finally dead as a trope. From the NCI commissioners report (Sept 15):

 

“It is important to understand that the COVID-19 vaccines were never approved under the traditional approval process for drugs in Canada,” 

“Under the alternative authorization process, the necessity to establish the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines through an objective manner appears to have been set aside.”

“This cannot be an appropriate standard for approving a drug that the Government intends to administer to the entire population. It is difficult to conceive of a less-scientific test for drug authorization than that found in the Interim Order.”

“The result was that while chief medical officers across the country repeatedly assured Canadians that the COVID-19 vaccines were ‘safe and effective’—the general Canadian population had no understanding that their authorization process had not required objective proof of safety nor efficacy.”

“We all know there's a new vaccine that's coming around the corner, [a] new mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. And there's essentially no evidence for it, there's been no clinical trial done in human beings showing that it benefits people, there's been no clinical trial showing that it is a safe product for people. And not only that, but then there are a lot of red flags.”

 

https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/commissioners-report/

[Noeller]

"National Citizens Inquiry"............oi.... *******....... vey. 

[17to85]

There's been a massive clinical global trial, millions and millions (billions probably?) Of shots given and shown to be safe and effective. 

Covid vaccines show what is capable when There's an urgency to get things done. Conspiracy theorists need to **** off.

[Super Duper Negatron]

Most (all?) of Europe, Australia, NZ, etc. have opted to explicitly recommend the booster only to high risk groups. I don't think questioning policies here is necessarily conspiracy theories...NA would have access to the same data, so the difference is curious, at a minimum.

[bluto]

It usually goes like this:

Q: Do you think that the C-19 shots are Safe & Effective.

A: Absolutely.

Q: So you got them?

A: Yes.

Q: Did you ever get Covid?

A: A few times.

Q: So they're Effective?

A: Yup.

Q: It works?

A: Yes, I may have gotten even more sick without it.

Q: Are you at all aware of this shot's side effect profile?

A: A bit.

Q: It doesn't concern you at all?

A: No, they must have tested it.

... OK, I'm out.

Edited September 19, 2023 by bluto

[HardCoreBlue]

3 minutes ago, bluto said:

It usually goes like this:

Q: Do you think that the C-19 shots are Safe & Effective.

A: Absolutely.

Q: So you got them?

A: Yes.

Q: Did you ever get Covid?

A: A few times.

Q: So they're Effective?

A: Yup.

... OK, I'm out.

If you think you're being clever here and you're cutting thru all the garbly nonsense with truth and cold hard facts, you're not.

This is just dumb and dangerous.

[Noeller]

6 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

If you think you're being clever here and you're cutting thru all the garbly nonsense with truth and cold hard facts, you're not.

This is just dumb and dangerous.

Wildly. Misinformation kills people, period. 

[bluto]

16 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

If you think you're being clever here and you're cutting thru all the garbly nonsense with truth and cold hard facts, you're not.

This is just dumb and dangerous.

No, but I do think that the questions are fair and the answers are factual and typical of what you'd hear.

[HardCoreBlue]

Just now, bluto said:

No, but I do think that the questions are fair and the answers are factual and typical of what you'd hear.

Right, asking questions, raising concerns, informing yourself are good. No one here on this board that I've seen is suggesting blind faith. 

Real experts and specialists trained and experienced in specific areas can help inform people in how to be a responsible citizen, how to make good decisions for themselves, their families and people they care about knowing the benefit/risks involved.

With your original dumb and dangerous post (I'm not calling you dumb, I'm calling your post dumb), it's completely misrepresenting the science and how our system works which is not perfect but it's pretty damn good. 

This anecdotal story that always sticks out to me was a nurse telling people she was treating a patient who was spewing nonsense about the safety and purpose of vaccines. She was treating him on an unrelated condition to Covid, pumping him full 5 different substances but nothing from him about what she was ingesting into his body. 

[bluto]

7 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Right, asking questions, raising concerns, informing yourself are good. No one here on this board that I've seen is suggesting blind faith. 

Real experts and specialists trained and experienced in specific areas can help inform people in how to be a responsible citizen, how to make good decisions for themselves, their families and people they care about knowing the benefit/risks involved.

With your original dumb and dangerous post (I'm not calling you dumb, I'm calling your post dumb), it's completely misrepresenting the science and how our system works which is not perfect but it's pretty damn good. 

This anecdotal story that always sticks out to me was a nurse telling people she was treating a patient who was spewing nonsense about the safety and purpose of vaccines. She was treating him on an unrelated condition to Covid, pumping him full 5 different substances but nothing from him about what she was ingesting into his body. 

That's fine if you think that my post is dumb, HCB.

I have a similar opinion of being mandated to take an untested, unproven, known bad side effects, brand new technology and calling it the science. Or insisting that isn't blind faith.

Either way, you've the freedom to take as many of them as you please. But you don't have the freedom to use the word effective and expect to not hear some pretty obvious, elephant-in-the-room type of questions.

[JCon]

13 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Right, asking questions, raising concerns, informing yourself are good. No one here on this board that I've seen is suggesting blind faith. 

Real experts and specialists trained and experienced in specific areas can help inform people in how to be a responsible citizen, how to make good decisions for themselves, their families and people they care about knowing the benefit/risks involved.

With your original dumb and dangerous post (I'm not calling you dumb, I'm calling your post dumb), it's completely misrepresenting the science and how our system works which is not perfect but it's pretty damn good. 

This anecdotal story that always sticks out to me was a nurse telling people she was treating a patient who was spewing nonsense about the safety and purpose of vaccines. She was treating him on an unrelated condition to Covid, pumping him full 5 different substances but nothing from him about what she was ingesting into his body. 

Save your breath. Everything is a conspiracy. It's the most tested, widely used vaccine in history but the anti-science, anti-evidence crowd doesn't care. 

[HardCoreBlue]

3 minutes ago, JCon said:

Save your breath. Everything is a conspiracy. It's the most tested, widely used vaccine in history but the anti-science, anti-evidence crowd doesn't care. 

You're absolutely correct, especially when you write the bolded part. 

 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 hours ago, bluto said:

Looks like "safe & effective" is finally dead as a trope. From the NCI commissioners report (Sept 15):

 

“It is important to understand that the COVID-19 vaccines were never approved under the traditional approval process for drugs in Canada,” 

“Under the alternative authorization process, the necessity to establish the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines through an objective manner appears to have been set aside.”

“This cannot be an appropriate standard for approving a drug that the Government intends to administer to the entire population. It is difficult to conceive of a less-scientific test for drug authorization than that found in the Interim Order.”

“The result was that while chief medical officers across the country repeatedly assured Canadians that the COVID-19 vaccines were ‘safe and effective’—the general Canadian population had no understanding that their authorization process had not required objective proof of safety nor efficacy.”

“We all know there's a new vaccine that's coming around the corner, [a] new mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. And there's essentially no evidence for it, there's been no clinical trial done in human beings showing that it benefits people, there's been no clinical trial showing that it is a safe product for people. And not only that, but then there are a lot of red flags.”

 

https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/commissioners-report/

Why would you have more faith in this "report" than the other thousands? 

I mean everything you have posted above has been disproven and explained away. 

 

I mean here is the human trials for moderna's shot:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.08.22.23293434v1

 

Like- these people ******* lie, obfuscate, omit and cherry pick to feed this false narrative... I don't see the appeal of their faux convictions about these conspiracy theories. 

 

I get it, Covid sucks- the response while warranted was extreme and broke a lot of people, communities and so on. But man, if you can't recognize fact from manufactured/misplaced rage, I don't know what to tell you.

 

It is good to be skeptical and question the science, good data and sound science thrives on that. It harms the scientific process if you can't accept the findings and where the data points to, because it doesn't fit your narrative or preconceived ideas. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[HardCoreBlue]

20 minutes ago, bluto said:

That's fine if you think that my post is dumb, HCB.

I have a similar opinion of being mandated to take an untested, unproven, known bad side effects, brand new technology and calling it the science. Or insisting that isn't blind faith.

Either way, you've the freedom to take as many of them as you please. But you don't have the freedom to use the word effective and expect to not hear some pretty obvious, elephant-in-the-room type of questions.

Yup the majority of well trained, well educated, well experienced, well respected Canadian and International experts and specialists in many different areas of science, medicine, ethics etc etc completely dupe people with the word effective and completely gloss over elephant in the room type questions when testing the effectiveness of efficacy of treatment type substances. But only for Covid type ailments.

 The biggest issue for you is not the science, it's being mandated to do something that requires a choice on your part.

I find it completely ironic that some of the same anti-science, anti-evidence people for years have told people that if they don't like our country than get the hell out but now are saying Canada is becoming a third world anti-freedom dictatorship .

Are they going to heed their own advice they provide to others who slog this country for other reasons?

 

[Bigblue204]

4 hours ago, bluto said:

Looks like "safe & effective" is finally dead as a trope. From the NCI commissioners report (Sept 15):

https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/commissioners-report/

This is what drives me crazy. There isn't a medicine on the planet that's safe and effective for everyone. It doesn't happen, has never happened. And likely won't in our lifetime (though AI may change that). Does that mean no one should take it? No. Does it mean they're lying...no. It means that for the vast majority of people, it's fine. But like everything, you may have a reaction to it. Should Tylenol be pulled from the shelves? Should cough meds? Penicillin? Where do we draw the line?

The form I've had to fill out for the shots I've gotten have explained this. I'm not sure what else people want?

2 hours ago, bluto said:

That's fine if you think that my post is dumb, HCB.

I have a similar opinion of being mandated to take an untested, unproven, known bad side effects, brand new technology and calling it the science. Or insisting that isn't blind faith.

Either way, you've the freedom to take as many of them as you please. But you don't have the freedom to use the word effective and expect to not hear some pretty obvious, elephant-in-the-room type of questions.

it was not brand new.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 hours ago, bluto said:

I have a similar opinion of being mandated to take an untested, unproven, known bad side effects, brand new technology and calling it the science. Or insisting that isn't blind faith.

a) it's tested. thoroughly. there are REAMS of data that support this. I don't understand how you missed all of that data and studies upon studies, upon studies... not to mention the real life data that has poured in from hundreds of MILLIONS of shots... it's not untested. I fail to see why you still argue this point.

 

b) it proven (see above)

Sure there are side effects- medicine often does when you have millions of different people with different physiologies taking any medication. 

 

Odd point here, but how can you know that there are side effects if it's untested? I honestly would like to know how you can have these two competing ideas be true in your mind.

 

c) it's not a new technology... it's over  60 years old. first discovered in the 60s.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[17to85]

4 hours ago, bluto said:

 

Q: Are you at all aware of this shot's side effect profile?

A: A bit.

Q: It doesn't concern you at all?

A: No, they must have tested it.

... OK, I'm out.

A: yes I am aware

A: concern me? Not really because I am also aware of the effects of covid and they are worse and more common. 

 

Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

[bustamente]

 

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2023-09-12 at 12:42 PM, Super Duper Negatron said:

Serious question (with no judgement) for everyone here. As a healthy 40-something with kids, is anyone planning on getting the booster for either them or their kids? I had the first round of 3 shots, and the kids have the first 2 themselves, and nothing since. We all had covid since our last shots which is one big reason we didn't bother with a booster.

I've had 5 but didn't get the 6th in the spring/summer. Gonna get the jab in early November. Going to the US for American Thanksgiving & have to pass through a very overcrowded Seattle airport. It's crazy how small the place is with tens of thousands of people using it as it's the hub for Alaska Airways. Will try to get as much protection as I can. 

[SpeedFlex27]

14 hours ago, JCon said:

Save your breath. Everything is a conspiracy. It's the most tested, widely used vaccine in history but the anti-science, anti-evidence crowd doesn't care. 

Now the stupid disbelievers aren't getting the required shots for diseases like Diptheria, Polio, Mumps & Measles for their kids. Claim they're unsafe. I guess putting on leafy underwear & dancing barefoot around a fire moaning incoherently works now. What a bunch of moronic fools for parents. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by SpeedFlex27