Wanna-B-Fanboy Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 Honest question about this: If I was a protester... and these guys come at us... without any indication of their authority or where that authority originates from... can we fight back to defend ourselves?
TrueBlue4ever Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said: Honest question about this: If I was a protester... and these guys come at us... without any indication of their authority or where that authority originates from... can we fight back to defend ourselves? They seem to have patches on their arms. But to answer your question, you could fight back but would get a beatdown, just as you would if you knew they were legit police or of you knew they were not. US has “stand your ground” law (at least on some states) where homicide is justifiable if you feel threat. The bigger question is, do they have the proper authority to effect an arrest? If they are not a legitimate police force, then they have no authority to legally arrest and charge someone. That may not be their goal, though.
Wanna-B-Fanboy Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, TrueBlue4ever said: They seem to have patches on their arms. But to answer your question, you could fight back but would get a beatdown, just as you would if you knew they were legit police or of you knew they were not. US has “stand your ground” law (at least on some states) where homicide is justifiable if you feel threat. The bigger question is, do they have the proper authority to effect an arrest? If they are not a legitimate police force, then they have no authority to legally arrest and charge someone. That may not be their goal, though. If superior numbers of protesters stood their ground and shitkicked them... would that be a punishable offense?
Wideleft Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said: They seem to have patches on their arms. But to answer your question, you could fight back but would get a beatdown, just as you would if you knew they were legit police or of you knew they were not. US has “stand your ground” law (at least on some states) where homicide is justifiable if you feel threat. The bigger question is, do they have the proper authority to effect an arrest? If they are not a legitimate police force, then they have no authority to legally arrest and charge someone. That may not be their goal, though. The Nisour Square Massacre occurred on September 16, 2007 where employees of Blackwater Security Consulting (now Academi), a private military company contracted by the US government to provide security services in Iraq, shot at Iraqi civilians, killing 17 and injuring 20 in Nisour Square, Baghdad, while escorting a U.S. embassy convoy.[1][2][3] The killings outraged Iraqis and strained relations between Iraq and the United States.[4] In 2014, four Blackwater employees were tried[5] and convicted in U.S. federal court; one of murder, and the other three of manslaughter and firearms charges.[6] Blackwater guards claimed that the convoy was ambushed and that they fired at the attackers in defense of the convoy. The Iraqi government and Iraqi police investigator Faris Saadi Abdul stated that the killings were unprovoked.[7][8] The next day, Blackwater Worldwide's license to operate in Iraq was temporarily revoked.[9] The U.S. State Department has said that "innocent life was lost",[10] and according to the Washington Post, a military report appeared to corroborate "the Iraqi government's contention that Blackwater was at fault".[11] The Iraqi government vowed to punish Blackwater.[12] The incident sparked at least five investigations, including one from the Federal Bureau of Investigation.[13] The FBI investigation found that, of the 17 Iraqis killed by the guards, at least 14 were shot without cause.[14] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisour_Square_massacre Edited June 3, 2020 by Wideleft
Tracker Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Wideleft said: The Nisour Square Massacre occurred on September 16, 2007 where employees of Blackwater Security Consulting (now Academi), a private military company contracted by the US government to provide security services in Iraq, shot at Iraqi civilians, killing 17 and injuring 20 in Nisour Square, Baghdad, while escorting a U.S. embassy convoy.[1][2][3] The killings outraged Iraqis and strained relations between Iraq and the United States.[4] In 2014, four Blackwater employees were tried[5] and convicted in U.S. federal court; one of murder, and the other three of manslaughter and firearms charges.[6] Blackwater guards claimed that the convoy was ambushed and that they fired at the attackers in defense of the convoy. The Iraqi government and Iraqi police investigator Faris Saadi Abdul stated that the killings were unprovoked.[7][8] The next day, Blackwater Worldwide's license to operate in Iraq was temporarily revoked.[9] The U.S. State Department has said that "innocent life was lost",[10] and according to the Washington Post, a military report appeared to corroborate "the Iraqi government's contention that Blackwater was at fault".[11] The Iraqi government vowed to punish Blackwater.[12] The incident sparked at least five investigations, including one from the Federal Bureau of Investigation.[13] The FBI investigation found that, of the 17 Iraqis killed by the guards, at least 14 were shot without cause.[14] And no one was ever charged because Blackwater 's mercenaries are not answerable to any court.
TrueBlue4ever Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tracker said: And no one was ever charged because Blackwater 's mercenaries are not answerable to any court. Not according to the article: "In 2014, four Blackwater employees were tried[5] and convicted in U.S. federal court; one of murder, and the other three of manslaughter and firearms charges"
Tracker Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said: Not according to the article: "In 2014, four Blackwater employees were tried[5] and convicted in U.S. federal court; one of murder, and the other three of manslaughter and firearms charges" And........?
TrueBlue4ever Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tracker said: And........? And so they were charged and convicted in an American court. So they were answerable to a court according to the article.
Tracker Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 Just now, TrueBlue4ever said: And so they were charged and convicted in an American court. So they were answerable to a court according to the article. I would be interested to learn what punishment they actually received. I am surprised to know that they were actually brought up on charges.
Tracker Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 FBI finds no evidence ‘indicating Antifa involvement’ in DC protest despite Trump’s claims: report NBC News The FBI found no intelligence “indicating Antifa involvement” in violence surrounding Sunday’s protest near the White House despite President Donald Trump’s attempts to cast blame on radical leftists, according to an FBI situation report obtained by The Nation. An FBI source told the outlet that other situation reports, produced daily by the FBI since the weekend, have similarly shown no evidence of Antifa involvement.
TrueBlue4ever Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Tracker said: I would be interested to learn what punishment they actually received. I am surprised to know that they were actually brought up on charges. According to this article, the officer convicted of murder got life, the other 3 each got 30 years (which was the minimum for the firearms offences). https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/13/former-blackwater-guards-sentencing-baghdad-massacre
Tracker Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said: And so they were charged and convicted in an American court. So they were answerable to a court according to the article. The fact is Slatten has been given exceptional protection from justice. The US government first intervened on Slatten and the fellow Blackwater guards’ behalf to protect them from prosecution in Iraq, passing the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act on October 4, 2007, ensuring that US mercenaries, no matter where they were operating and what crimes they committed would be prosecuted, leniently, in US courts. For now, Slatten remains behind bars, as do Slough, Liberty and Heard, whose sentencing hearings are scheduled for September 5. However, the possibility remains of a Presidential pardon. It was reported in May that President Donald Trump had “made expedited requests” for pardon papers for several soldiers, including Slatten, accused of heinous war crimes. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/08/17/slif-a17.html Edited June 3, 2020 by Tracker
Floyd Posted June 3, 2020 Report Posted June 3, 2020 2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said: According to this article, the officer convicted of murder got life, the other 3 each got 30 years (which was the minimum for the firearms offences). https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/13/former-blackwater-guards-sentencing-baghdad-massacre Yeah but besides that...
Fred C Dobbs Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 Lots of military types on the streets in Washington: Quote Why Trump has the FBI, ICE and TSA patrolling Washington streets Among them are personnel from the national guard, US Secret Service, US Park Police, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Drug Enforcement Administration, US Marshals Service, Bureau of Prisons, Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Federal Protective Service and the Transportation Security Administration. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/politics/federal-authorities-washington-dc/index.html?utm_source=twCNN&utm_term=link&utm_content=2020-06-04T00%3A41%3A05&utm_medium=social
Tracker Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 Bill Barr Takes Charge of Trump’s Crackdown as the Military Tries to Back Away As President Trump continues to try and drum up support for his call for states to “dominate” protesters and beef up police presence against them, Attorney General Bill Barr and a team of senior Justice Department officials have quietly taken the lead on disrupting the protests and going after the petty criminals who may be using the demonstrations as cover. It’s been a controversial move, even within Barr’s own department. One federal prosecutor called Barr’s most high-profile effort to quell the unrest “politically-charged [and] bogus.” A senior law enforcement official called it “a political ploy to make being anti-Trump look like terrorism.” https://www.thedailybeast.com/bill-barr-barr-takes-charge-of-trumps-crackdown-as-military-tries-to-back-away?ref=home
bigg jay Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 It's amazing what can happen when both sides decide to work together... Brandon, Tracker, blue_gold_84 and 1 other 2 2
The Unknown Poster Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 If the military continues to move away from this as they should and IF Trump loses and tries to "defend" himself using DOC swat members, those dudes will get a hell of a rude awakening if coming face to face with actual military protecting the constitution.
HardCoreBlue Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 15 hours ago, Tracker said: FBI finds no evidence ‘indicating Antifa involvement’ in DC protest despite Trump’s claims: report NBC News The FBI found no intelligence “indicating Antifa involvement” in violence surrounding Sunday’s protest near the White House despite President Donald Trump’s attempts to cast blame on radical leftists, according to an FBI situation report obtained by The Nation. An FBI source told the outlet that other situation reports, produced daily by the FBI since the weekend, have similarly shown no evidence of Antifa involvement. I’m sure Bill Barr will send out his own memo discounting these findings and conclude Antifa are not only responsible for violent protests across the country but also responsible for Covid 19. blue_gold_84 1
do or die Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 So where is all this actual Antifa evidence? As opposed to the actual news reports coming out, about some right wing groups....
The Unknown Poster Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, do or die said: So where is all this actual Antifa evidence? As opposed to the actual news reports coming out, about some right wing groups.... Well part of the issue is Antifa isnt really an organized group. Many left wing protesters may identify as supporting the antifa movement (and who wouldnt...arent we all anti fascists?). Trump announcing the terrorist designation was just a distraction designed to rile his base. In fact its designed to create violence because those gun-toting idiots can justify to themselves that everyone protesting is antifa and antifa are terrorists, ust like al qaeda so they can be killed. And obviously to distract from the fact that the bulk of violence is from white wing groups. And sure, you DO have some crazy far left nuts too. But the FBI has been saying for years that the largest domestic terrorism threat are white supremacy groups. Trump has been oxygen for the smoldering flames of those people. Tracker 1
Tracker Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 If memory serves, one of the first things that the Trump administration did (I think it was Jeff Sessions) when it came into power was to dismantle the FBI task force that was monitoring right-wing extremists. The Unknown Poster and Wanna-B-Fanboy 1 1
The Unknown Poster Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 Keep the protests going and growing right through the election. The people can take back their nation. Just vote. blue_gold_84, HardCoreBlue and Fred C Dobbs 2 1
Tracker Posted June 4, 2020 Report Posted June 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: Keep the protests going and growing right through the election. The people can take back their nation. Just vote. This election may be the last chance Americans have to reclaim their democracy. Trump, the GOP and the alt-right will not leave power without bloodshed. It will probably come down to who the military and police support.
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