Black Lives Matter

[rebusrankin]

The U of Mississippi's nickname is the Rebels. They're named after all of the students who dropped out of the U of Miss in 1861 to fight for the confederacy. How the hell do you keep that name in 2020?

[Tracker]

16 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

The U of Mississippi's nickname is the Rebels. They're named after all of the students who dropped out of the U of Miss in 1861 to fight for the confederacy. How the hell do you keep that name in 2020?

Now we're into a bit of a grey area- the UNLV team is called "The Running Rebels". Where do you stop? 

[Mr Dee]

Just coming out now.

A week ago, there were many reports out of Minneapolis that protesters, reporters, and even medics had found that the tires of their cars were slashed at some point during a night of protest. Witnesses said at the time that law enforcement officers had carried out the act. And now there is clear evidence to support that claim. Mother Jones located video footage that shows officers slashing tires at a highway overpass. The officers at the scene appear to be a mixture of state troopers and county police.

https://apple.news/Af4Fby6TjTj6VvouLHYE9gw

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

I saw this on a deep dive from a poster's link and thought I would bring it up here... my apologies if it's been posted already- just thought I'd share.

 

 

[Tracker]

16 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Just coming out now.

A week ago, there were many reports out of Minneapolis that protesters, reporters, and even medics had found that the tires of their cars were slashed at some point during a night of protest. Witnesses said at the time that law enforcement officers had carried out the act. And now there is clear evidence to support that claim. Mother Jones located video footage that shows officers slashing tires at a highway overpass. The officers at the scene appear to be a mixture of state troopers and county police.

https://apple.news/Af4Fby6TjTj6VvouLHYE9gw

 

These idiots and would-be brownshirts have simultaneously shown why police are not to be trusted and have made it a lot more difficult for the good cops to do their necessary jobs. Now, lets see which mayors, governors and federal politicians will condemn this and take actions to punish the guilty.

[Floyd]

26 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Just coming out now.

A week ago, there were many reports out of Minneapolis that protesters, reporters, and even medics had found that the tires of their cars were slashed at some point during a night of protest. Witnesses said at the time that law enforcement officers had carried out the act. And now there is clear evidence to support that claim. Mother Jones located video footage that shows officers slashing tires at a highway overpass. The officers at the scene appear to be a mixture of state troopers and county police.

https://apple.news/Af4Fby6TjTj6VvouLHYE9gw

 

Fascist state

[Mr Dee]

[The Unknown Poster]

Will be fascinating to watch. 

[Brandon]

42 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Will be fascinating to watch. 

It worked for New York back in the day.... only for people to complain and wanting to re-do it again to them these days.    

I don't see how they can make a drastic change... it'll be the same officers with the same equipment and with the same training.  It's not like they'll have a drastic change in how they perform the duties.   The only deterrent I think they could implement is a more severe punishment for any wrong doing.

[The Unknown Poster]

This is what people generally mean when they say defund the police or reallocate resources.  It’s hard to wrap the mind around, get rid of police.  But it’s more about employing resources to better deal with the actual issues. 
 

 

[Brandon]

It doesn't help when some people use the term properly and others are not and screaming that Winnipeg Police is evil and needs to be abolished/defunded.  It really doesn't help that the Jayda lady is full of hate and hurting the cause by sending mixed and bad messages.  

WPS has a really really high budget that could be cut down... it would help immensely if we had a better justice system or bigger jails to lock people up so that the police members don't need to drive around town checking all the low level thugs breaking curfew.   The cadet system helps a lot... maybe they could increase the amount of cadets or create some other kind of "lite police officer" where they can do all the calls/jobs that a full blown police officer isn't needed for.   

My other idea (for when I run for mayor) they can generate a tonne of money by having non officers write tickets for people driving with cell phones (distracted driving) and writing speeding tickets. 

[The Unknown Poster]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

It doesn't help when some people use the term properly and others are not and screaming that Winnipeg Police is evil and needs to be abolished/defunded.  It really doesn't help that the Jayda lady is full of hate and hurting the cause by sending mixed and bad messages.  

WPS has a really really high budget that could be cut down... it would help immensely if we had a better justice system or bigger jails to lock people up so that the police members don't need to drive around town checking all the low level thugs breaking curfew.   The cadet system helps a lot... maybe they could increase the amount of cadets or create some other kind of "lite police officer" where they can do all the calls/jobs that a full blown police officer isn't needed for.   

My other idea (for when I run for mayor) they can generate a tonne of money by having non officers write tickets for people driving with cell phones (distracted driving) and writing speeding tickets. 

I agree.  But its a sign of the issues coming to a head.  People exaggerate.  And I think its a legitimate frustration.  Its like a negotiation. If you tell the dealership the price you're willing to pay he will counter higher.  People saying Ef the Police, get rid of them altogether...they're angry and frustrated.  Police have LONG needed reform

I interacted with police a lot over the years and it always blew my mind that highly paid officers would sit around for a couple of hours doing witness statements.  Seems like an easy thing to off load on civilians trained in note taking/witness questioning or cadets.  Winnipeg has (or did) one of the largest per population forces in Canada but Ive seen so many calls where 5 or 6 cars respond and they're all "off line" dealing with something that doesnt require them all.

In one case, I heard a call over the ready for a serious incident and for available cars in the area to respond.  No one at my incident did.  Two minutes later, dispatch specifically called an officer on scene and asked if he and partner could respond and he replied no, busy.  

The worst thing to happen to police forces was unions.  Or at least, modern police forces.  Its all about increasing salaries, increasing complement.  And if 80% of calls are not traditional law enforcement, what the fack are we paying cops for?  Compare a cop with a social worker in terms of education and salary and workload.  Compare to nurses.

I know many good cops.  But police reform as been badly needed for a long time.

[Mark H.]

19 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Oh excellent, those are fine ideas.  Not to take this thread too far off topic, but the usual portrayal and perception of Tommy Douglas is very interesting.

When one knows that he believed in and promoted eugenics, statements such as the one above ring rather hollow. 

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[johnzo]

I've been thinking about this a lot and while we in the USA point fingers at bad cops, I think that failure in civilian leadership is a huge part of the root cause.

The USA prioritizes heroes over caretakers.  This means that as every other social service has been defunded, cop departments have gotten fatter and fatter and have taken on responsibilities that are really not responsibilities that call for heroic armed response.  Like a wellness check.  You're worried about the senior next door, the person you send shouldn't be armed unless that senior is setting up a sniper nest.  You got a jumper ready to jump off a bridge?  Response doesn't need to be armed.  You got a traffic accident or a speeding ticket?  Response doesn't need to be armed.

Anyone from the lowest sinner to the saintliest saint is going to get cynical when they're asked to do an impossible job.  A modern American big-city cop has to be a social worker, EMT, a peacekeeper, and a peacemaker, a dozen other things.  That's too many goddamn jobs.  And the cynicism that rightfully evolves from that is a great place for bad bad **** -- from roided out Spartan thin blue line cops to white supremacy -- to grow. 

And note that domestics, esp. violent ones, are a special ******* nightmare, because those are at a really hard intersection of social work and public safety work.  Got no answer for that.

So yeah, we gotta weed out some bad hombres in the police department -- but we also have to change the job description.  I do want the state to have the ability to confront people who are armed and who are hurting civilians.  But I don't want the state armed response agency to be the single universal number to call when there's something going on that's a little weird or unusual -- or when someone runs a stop sign.

[The Unknown Poster]

18 minutes ago, johnzo said:

I've been thinking about this a lot and while we in the USA point fingers at bad cops, I think that failure in civilian leadership is a huge part of the root cause.

The USA prioritizes heroes over caretakers.  This means that as every other social service has been defunded, cop departments have gotten fatter and fatter and have taken on responsibilities that are really not responsibilities that call for heroic armed response.  Like a wellness check.  You're worried about the senior next door, the person you send shouldn't be armed unless that senior is setting up a sniper nest.  You got a jumper ready to jump off a bridge?  Response doesn't need to be armed.  You got a traffic accident or a speeding ticket?  Response doesn't need to be armed.

Anyone from the lowest sinner to the saintliest saint is going to get cynical when they're asked to do an impossible job.  A modern American big-city cop has to be a social worker, EMT, a peacekeeper, and a peacemaker, a dozen other things.  That's too many goddamn jobs.  And the cynicism that rightfully evolves from that is a great place for bad bad **** -- from roided out Spartan thin blue line cops to white supremacy -- to grow. 

And note that domestics, esp. violent ones, are a special ******* nightmare, because those are at a really hard intersection of social work and public safety work.  Got no answer for that.

So yeah, we gotta weed out some bad hombres in the police department -- but we also have to change the job description.  I do want the state to have the ability to confront people who are armed and who are hurting civilians.  But I don't want the state armed response agency to be the single universal number to call when there's something going on that's a little weird or unusual -- or when someone runs a stop sign.

Im no expert on the history of law enforcement but certainly the police have exploded beyond their intended purpose.  Even when you look at the movement to decriminalize some drug possession.  You have police working highways, pulling over a car for whatever infraction, find weed and now its a felony.  Is that really the intended purpose of policing?

Union better get a clue here because if Minneapolis actually comes up with a model that eliminates the MPD as we know it and replaces it with something smaller, more efficient and that WORKS, then its going to spread.

Throwing more bodies at crime clearly isnt working.  And it becomes bloated.  Look at Winnipeg where the police are losing how much from their budget due to the suspension of photo enforcement in school zones?  Why are they reliant on that money?  Its not remotely about safety, its about revenue.  A cop needs a high school diploma, starts at $50,000+ and hits $100,000 after 5 years and they all do tons of OT.    Compare that to nurses and social workers.  

[Tracker]

As another way of looking at police violence, an ER nurse posted that they see intoxicated, confused, angry and violent people every day day and haven't killed one of them. A bit of an oversimplification, but a good point nonetheless.

[Tracker]

Man accused of driving his truck into a Virginia protest is an ‘admitted KKK leader’: prosecutor

In Henrico County, Virginia, 36-year-old Harry H. Rogers was arrested on Sunday for allegedly driving his truck into a crowd of nonviolent George Floyd protestors — and according to prosecutor Shannon Taylor, Rogers is a high-ranking member of the Ku Klux Klan.

Justin Mattingly of the Richmond Times-Dispatch reports that Taylor, in an official statement, asserted: “While I am grateful that the victim’s injuries do not appear to be serious, an attack on peaceful protesters is heinous and despicable — and we will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. The accused, by his own admission and by a cursory glance at social media, is an admitted leader of the Ku Klux Klan and a propagandist for Confederate ideology.”

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/man-accused-of-driving-his-truck-into-a-virginoa-protest-is-an-admitted-kkk-leader-prosecutor/

[Tracker]

Trump takes a swing and a miss at Romney for joining Black Lives Matter protest

President Donald Trump mocked Sen. Mitt Romney, (R-UT), on Monday for marching in a Washington protest over the death of George Floyd in police custody.

“Tremendous sincerity, what a guy,” Trump tweeted. “Hard to believe, with this kind of political talent, his numbers would ‘tank’ so badly in Utah!”

The tweet came in response to a video posted by Washington Post reporter Hannah Nathanson. Romney said in the video that he was “marching to find a way to end violence and brutality and to make sure that people understand that black lives matter

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/trump-takes-a-swing-and-a-miss-at-romney-for-joining-black-lives-matter-protest/

[The Unknown Poster]

Why isnt the KKK listed as a domestic terrorist group?

[JCon]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Why isnt the KKK listed as a domestic terrorist group?

It's a career limiting move, I'm sure. 

[Tracker]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Why isnt the KKK listed as a domestic terrorist group?

Because they are not black, brown, gay, Asian or progressives.

[Tracker]

Family of unarmed black student killed in New Jersey trooper custody kept in the dark on the basics
Maurice Gordon was shot fatally multiple times while in the custody of a white New Jersey State Trooper on May 23

Two days before George Floyd was killed in police custody on May 25 in Minneapolis, an unarmed 28-year-old black man was shot fatally multiple times while in the custody of a white New Jersey State Trooper along the Garden State Parkway in Burlington County.

While in Minnesota, the four officers allegedly involved in Floyd's killing have been identified, fired from their jobs, charged and arrested, here in New Jersey, the public doesn't yet know who the trooper was and what his employment status is.

https://www.salon.com/2020/06/08/family-of-unarmed-black-student-killed-in-new-jersey-trooper-custody-kept-in-the-dark-on-the-basics_partner/

[rebusrankin]

12 minutes ago, Tracker said:

As another way of looking at police violence, an ER nurse posted that they see intoxicated, confused, angry and violent people every day day and haven't killed one of them. A bit of an oversimplification, but a good point nonetheless.

This is true but when an ER Nurse has a person in one of these categories in a threatening state, they call for and get security. Anecdotally, I have been in the ER with a family member suffering from a mental illness, when that family member started screaming, yelling and becoming aggressive, security was called.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, rebusrankin said:

This is true but when an ER Nurse has a person in one of these categories in a threatening state, they call for and get security. Anecdotally, I have been in the ER with a family member suffering from a mental illness, when that family member started screaming, yelling and becoming aggressive, security was called.

For sure, but security isnt making $100,000 a year either.  Security responds to prevent violence but the patient is still under the care of people with more training.  In fact you make a good case for civilian security with expert oversight by social workers/health experts