Black Lives Matter

[HardCoreBlue]

10 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Anybody wondering why there are 11 pages about "riots" (not protests) and yet no one (including me) saw fit to start a thread about police murdering George Floyd?  

What does it say about us that we find one subject so much more noteworthy than the other?

Or at least change the name of this thread to anti-racist protests.

[Tracker]

Iraq war veteran accuses cops of ‘walking around like stormtroopers’ during protests: ‘There’s a rot at the heart of policing’

“Deescalate,” a term that is often used by responsible law enforcement officers, refers to efforts to calm down an intense situation and not escalate the potential for violence — and Iraq War veteran Rafael Noboa y Rivera, in a disturbing article for the Daily Beast, warns that during the “Justice for George Floyd” protests, way too many police have been doing the opposite of deescalating.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/iraq-war-veteran-accuses-cops-of-walking-around-like-stormtroopers-during-protests-theres-a-rot-at-the-heart-of-policing/

[HardCoreBlue]

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Iraq war veteran accuses cops of ‘walking around like stormtroopers’ during protests: ‘There’s a rot at the heart of policing’

“Deescalate,” a term that is often used by responsible law enforcement officers, refers to efforts to calm down an intense situation and not escalate the potential for violence — and Iraq War veteran Rafael Noboa y Rivera, in a disturbing article for the Daily Beast, warns that during the “Justice for George Floyd” protests, way too many police have been doing the opposite of deescalating.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/iraq-war-veteran-accuses-cops-of-walking-around-like-stormtroopers-during-protests-theres-a-rot-at-the-heart-of-policing/

Deranged idiot is facilitating this with his bluster about total domination.

[blue_gold_84]

De-escalation of a tense, high stress, dynamic situation requires proper training vis a vis intervention techniques and incident management, regardless of the severity. For whatever reason, it seems like many law enforcement agencies in the US don't have that. I have to believe that's one reason why we see so many incidents go the other way, often with very ugly outcomes.

[Tracker]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

De-escalation of a tense, high stress, dynamic situation requires proper training vis a vis intervention techniques and incident management, regardless of the severity. For whatever reason, it seems like many law enforcement agencies in the US don't have that. I have to believe that's one reason why we see so many incidents go the other way, often with very ugly outcomes.

Because so many of US police forces have been militarized, the operational attitude in protests is not to deescalate, but to crush as if it were a military engagement.

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

De-escalation of a tense, high stress, dynamic situation requires proper training vis a vis intervention techniques and incident management, regardless of the severity. For whatever reason, it seems like many law enforcement agencies in the US don't have that. I have to believe that's one reason why we see so many incidents go the other way, often with very ugly outcomes.

Yeah but they de-escalte how will they be able to shoot someone?

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Or at least change the name of this thread to anti-racist protests.

How about "Fall of the American Empire"

[JCon]

 

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Or at least change the name of this thread to anti-racist protests.

I disagree, no one is watching or commenting on the actual protest marches which have been reasonably well-organized and occur mostly during the daytime, the night-time rioting is the main focus of this thread, people seem unable or unwilling to differentiate  between the two events, but they are separate.  

[HardCoreBlue]

12 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

How about "Fall of the American Empire"

How about we turn that frown upside down and call it flushing this deranged idiot and his ilk down the drain. It's taking longer than we like, but it will happen. 

 

4 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I disagree, no one is watching or commenting on the actual protest marches which have been reasonably well-organized and occur mostly during the daytime, the night-time rioting is the main focus of this thread, people seem unable or unwilling to differentiate  between the two events, but they are separate.  

Nope they are not separate. That's not how this works. People way smarter than me would agree they aren't separate. We will agree to disagree.

Edited June 2, 2020 by HardCoreBlue
added more to the label

[blue_gold_84]

1 minute ago, Tracker said:

Because so many of US police forces have been militarized, the operational attitude in protests is not to deescalate, but to crush as if it were a military engagement.

I'm not sure "militarization" of a law enforcement agency is necessarily the issue. Although, I'd say it plays a part. Certainly, it would give shitty officers (AKA bullies with badges) more fuel to act poorly but I think there's a lack of accountability and adequate training playing far more prominent roles in LEOs making the wrong decisions on the job or simply flat out abusing the authority they've been given due to little or no checks and balances in the recruiting process in US jurisdictions. We've seen police brutality events and excessive use of force incidents for decades down there, even prior to LEOs being provided with military style gear/equipment post 9/11. 
A lack of training/education leads to ignorance which in turns stokes the fires of fear. It's a bad combination, especially for someone carrying a firearm.

Take this article from 2016 regarding hours required to be a police officer vs. other jobs: https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/jobs-training-police-trnd/index.html

And this fact checking report from Snopes regarding training in Scandinavian countries compared to the US: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/police-training-killings-usa-nordic/

Agencies here in Canada have access to similar inventories, such as the RCMP, WPS, TPS, etc., but we don't see the same frequency of such ugly, brutal incidents. That isn't to say LEOs here in Canada are squeaky clean (far from it, to be sure) but I think there's better, longer, and more comprehensive and accountable training in place for them to perform their duties more proficiently and professionally. Obviously, bullies with badges still exist in this country but that crappy phenomenon doesn't seem to as prominent compared to our southern neighbour.

https://online.wlu.ca/news/2017/01/03/policing-canada-vs-policing-usa

Quote

Size and Structure

One of the most basic differences between Canada and the U.S. is the sheer number of different law enforcement agencies. In Canada there are less than 235 police services, while in the U.S. there are 18,000 policing agencies for a country that is only 10 times greater than Canada in terms of population size. There is also no American equivalent of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Another significant difference is how policing organizations are monitored and structured. For example, civilian oversight plays a significant role in Canada. In Halifax, for example, a police shooting is investigated by the Serious Incident Response Team, and residents can make complaints straight to an independent commissioner. In the U.S., civilian oversight can vary greatly from town to town or county to county. In many instances, it is close to non-existent except for perhaps a pension oversight board.

Use of Force

The use of lethal force in the U.S. far outstrips Canada. Adjusting for population differences, the police in the U.S. use lethal force about six times as often as Canadian officers. In raw numbers, between 1990 and 2014 there were 376 fatal police shootings in Canada. In 2015 alone in the U.S. there were at least 987. However, the U.S. number is likely higher because of the number of police agencies (18,000) and the fact there is no federal national tracking of police shootings in the U.S.

We share many similarities with respect to law enforcement but I'd say the checks and balances here provide a significant advantage to the Canadian public, which makes for a significant difference in incidents taking place. Policing is not perfect here by any means and there's still so much more that can be done to improve things, both regarding better policing and more accountability to the public, of whom LEOs are sworn to serve and protect above all else.

My point is this: I think it goes without saying we're in a far better situation here in Canada.

[Wideleft]

How to Fix American Policing

At a painful time, a roundup of proposed remedies

07.13.2016

 

The question isn’t new, but after last week it seems more urgent than ever: What reforms are available to improve the relationship between police and the black communities they serve?

That question has figured in policy platforms issued by a variety of groups, from leaders of the Black Lives Matter movement (that platform is called Campaign Zero), to the President’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing to the NAACP. Some platforms apply to a single jurisdiction, such as the proposals for the New York City Police Department issued by Communities United for Police Reform. Some ideas come from academics. Some come from community advocates or the ranks of law enforcement. Some ideas have been pitched for decades while others have surfaced in recent years. Many have been discussed at national conferences on this question, hosted by the Department of Justice.

Last week, the tension between black and blue, as some have phrased it, sparked protests and vigils around the country, following the shooting deaths of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, La.; Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minn.; and police officers Patrick Zamarripa, Michael Smith, Michael Krol, Lorne Ahrens and Brent Thompson in Dallas.

What follows is a canvass of proposed reforms, including ones renewed in the aftermath of last week’s killings:

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2016/07/13/how-to-fix-american-policing

[Floyd]

If only some past president could have warned them about the danger of the military industrial complex...

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

Because so many of US police forces have been militarized, the operational attitude in protests is not to deescalate, but to crush as if it were a military engagement.

Yep. It's the "cowboy" mentality as I said before. A very American way of looking at the world. Everything is showdown at the OK Corral. That's why the words Vietnam and 9/11 sting so much, Not just tragedies, but the tough USA getting punched in the mouth and not having a response. Not just a loss, but an embarrassment to their ego. Losing the schoolyard fight. That mentality bleeds into their right to bear arms, their "policemen of the world" attitude, their military and police stance.   

Edited June 2, 2020 by TrueBlue4ever

[TrueBlue4ever]

41 minutes ago, JCon said:

 

Funny that African-Americans have been realizing it (and telling us) for a long time, yet white people still, even with the evidence of George Floyd and countless other victims before him, did not internalize it until they were tear-gassed as peaceful protestors last night. Even this commentator said they ignored it abroad. No, they ignored it at home too, because it was black people and not them who suffered. That's what they have been trying to tell you all along. Thanks for waking up. (Would say the same thing to myself).

[Wideleft]

We are the governed. We no longer consent to let the police kill us.

By 

Eugene Robinson 

Columnist

June 1, 2020 at 6:07 p.m. CDT

This coast-to-coast uprising is not about terrorism, foreign or domestic. It’s not about arson, looting or carpeting streets with broken glass. It’s about a powerful phrase in the Declaration of Independence: “the consent of the governed.” Police in this country no longer have our consent to kill African Americans unjustly and with impunity.

Is that clear now?

What’s striking about the protests over the killing of George Floyd is not just the intensity of the anger the protesters express but how widely that anger has spread. Citizens have held demonstrations, marches and vigils in more than 60 cities across the country and in nearly every state. And in the week since a Minneapolis police officer ended Floyd’s life by kneeling on his neck, as Floyd pleaded “I can’t breathe,” passions have not diminished. If anything, crowds have become more ardent.

To me, this feels less and less like just another iteration of the set-piece drama we’ve lived through so many times — an unjust killing, a few days of protest, a chorus of promises of reform, a return to normal, an all-too-brief interlude until the next unjust killing. This eruption feels like a potential inflection point, a collective decision that “normal” is no longer acceptable.

 

That message is being delivered in every major American city. Whether it is being heard and understood remains to be seen.

It is no surprise that President Trump and his aides are deaf, dumb and blind. Trump was chased into his underground bunker Friday night when protesters briefly threatened to storm the White House fence. He salved his bruised ego with a tweet about how anyone who managed to enter the grounds would be met by “vicious dogs” and “ominous weapons.” But on Sunday night, as some protesters set fires across the street in Lafayette Square and the city of Washington imposed a curfew, I saw something I don’t think I’ve ever seen before: The White House went completely dark. It looked like a vacant home, an empty mansion, a luxury property perhaps in foreclosure.

In terms of the kind of presidential leadership that could help heal the nation, the “nobody’s home” metaphor is depressingly perfect. Trump went into hiding to avoid the protesters. When Trump did call Philonise Floyd, George Floyd’s brother, to offer his condolences, “He just kept, like, pushing me off, like ‘I don’t want to hear what you’re talking about,’ ” Floyd said afterward. And the message certainly hadn’t gotten through by the time Trump convened governors for a Monday conference in a call in which he reportedly told them that “most of you are weak” and urged them to “dominate” the protesters with overwhelming force.

Trump isn’t alone in his deafness. Presumably stating the view of the administration, Trump’s national security adviser, Robert C. O’Brien, told CNN on Sunday that he did not believe there was any “systemic racism” in U.S. police forces. Rather, he said, he thought there were “a few bad apples” who need to be rooted out.

And as for the violence and looting seen in some cities, the administration is focusing its fire instead on “antifa,” a loosely organized leftist movement — and paying no attention to white-supremacist groups that reportedly also are taking advantage of the moment to provoke greater conflict, much less to actions by the police that have escalated confrontations in some cities.

That whole analysis — apples and antifa — is wrong to the point of irrelevance. Look at the sheer number of protests. Look at the level of anger, and yes, the destruction of property. Look at the persistence of demonstrators who pour out of their homes night after night, putting themselves at risk not only of clashes with police but also contracting covid-19. Look at the protesters themselves — African Americans, whites, Latinos, Asians, a rainbow of outrage.

They are saying, quite clearly, that enough is enough. What happened to Floyd should never happen again. Consent is withdrawn. 

Policymakers should realize that it’s time to stop talking about police reform and actually change the racist army-of-occupation culture that poisons too many police departments. This will be hard to do — veteran officers who define that culture are hard to dislodge, powerful police unions often resist reform efforts, justice systems reflexively give police officers the benefit of the doubt even in the most egregious cases.

But the basic principle is simple: Policing is something that must be done with and for a community, not to a community. Those officers should have been made to understand that their duty was to treat Floyd like a citizen — not like some black guy whose life was worthless.

Governors, mayors and police chiefs around the country must hear and understand the message: If these racist killings continue, there will be hell to pay.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-are-the-governed-we-no-longer-consent-to-let-the-police-kill-us/2020/06/01/9fad7274-a440-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html

[17to85]

A big part of fixing the policing issue in the states would be if they got serious about gun control too. 

When everyone might be packing heat it means the cops are always on edge about that as well as all the other systemic issues. 

Bottom line that country has a lot of problems that they simply refuse to even try and tackle. 

[Brandon]

7 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

How to Fix American Policing

At a painful time, a roundup of proposed remedies

07.13.2016

 

The question isn’t new, but after last week it seems more urgent than ever: What reforms are available to improve the relationship between police and the black communities they serve?

That question has figured in policy platforms issued by a variety of groups, from leaders of the Black Lives Matter movement (that platform is called Campaign Zero), to the President’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing to the NAACP. Some platforms apply to a single jurisdiction, such as the proposals for the New York City Police Department issued by Communities United for Police Reform. Some ideas come from academics. Some come from community advocates or the ranks of law enforcement. Some ideas have been pitched for decades while others have surfaced in recent years. Many have been discussed at national conferences on this question, hosted by the Department of Justice.

Last week, the tension between black and blue, as some have phrased it, sparked protests and vigils around the country, following the shooting deaths of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, La.; Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minn.; and police officers Patrick Zamarripa, Michael Smith, Michael Krol, Lorne Ahrens and Brent Thompson in Dallas.

What follows is a canvass of proposed reforms, including ones renewed in the aftermath of last week’s killings:

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2016/07/13/how-to-fix-american-policing

A national standard would be the ideal solution,  unfortunately every county and and every area has completely different standards and training at this point in time.  It also doesn't help that the amount of funding and hiring practices wildly vary.   Some places you literally sign up and they hand you a gun and tell you to serve justice. 

What would be ideal (my opinion) is if they had a national policing where everyone is trained the same (properly) ,  paid the same and where the officers move around and get assigned posts across the country.  Basically the RCMP in the States.   This way it would help prevent local corruption,  you wouldn't have a bunch of Cletus's policing in the South and hopefully it would weed out bad candidates and hire more quality people. 

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Tracker said:

Because so many of US police forces have been militarized, the operational attitude in protests is not to deescalate, but to crush as if it were a military engagement.

The same thing happened in 1968 at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Mayor Richard Daley, a Democrat who iwas just like Donald Trump wanted to crush the protesters & the Chicago police was nasty & vicious. They tear gassed & beat members of the media covering the convention. They did the same to innocent bystanders & protesters. To men & women. Didn't matter. The media called it a "police riot". There were many injuries to cops & the protesters but it didn't crush the anti war movement, it solidified it. But let's not kid ourselves. Like today, there were anarchists in the crowd that wanted violence as well to promote their agenda. But the police handled this all wrong.

 

[Wideleft]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

A big part of fixing the policing issue in the states would be if they got serious about gun control too. 

When everyone might be packing heat it means the cops are always on edge about that as well as all the other systemic issues. 

Bottom line that country has a lot of problems that they simply refuse to even try and tackle. 

While I strongly agree that in broad terms gun control is a huge problem, it is not germaine to this issue.  The proof is how differently police approach and confront people of colour as opposed to how they treat whites.  Where was the tear gas when the white nationalists stormed the Michigan State Capitol building or in Charlottesville?  It's not hard to find footage of police shootings of POC for minor traffic infractions, while the Bundy's of the world are literally pointing their weapons at law enforcement and nothing happens.

 

 

[Tracker]

Attorney for George Floyd’s Family: Authorities Told Us Three Other Officers Will Be Charged

The family of George Floyd has learned the three other officers involved in his police killing last week will also be charged, a civil-rights attorney said Tuesday. Ben Crump, the lawyer representing the Floyd family, said in an interview on the Today show that authorities have told his clients that the three officers will be charged. “We heard that they expect to charge those officers...We understand they will be charged. That is what the family is hearing from the authorities and he [George Floyd] died on the scene and that's important to note,” Crump told host Hoda Kotb. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/attorney-ben-crump-says-authorities-told-george-floyd-family-three-other-officers-will-be-charged?ref=home

[Tracker]

Six Atlanta Officers Charged for Tasing, Assaulting Two Students: DA

Charges have been filed against the six Atlanta police officers involved in an assault on two college students during a protest. Two of the officers were fired Sunday after the incident was captured live on local station CBS46. Charges against the six officers include aggravated assault, simple battery, criminal damage to property, pointing a handgun, and aggravated battery.

The students, 22-year-old Messiah Young and 20-year-old Teniyah Pilgrim, both attend historically black colleges in Atlanta and were arrested after the city’s 9 p.m. curfew while in their car leaving a protest at Atlanta’s Centennial Olympic Park. The officers shattered the car’s driver side window and tased Young. Pilgrim was detained, but released without charges. Young was charged with fleeing the scene and driving with an expired license, but Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms ordered the charges to be dropped.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/six-atlanta-officers-charged-for-tasing-assaulting-two-students-da-says?ref=home

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

This kind of sums it up...

 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

46 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The proof is how differently police approach and confront people of colour as opposed to how they treat whites.  Where was the tear gas when the white nationalists stormed the Michigan State Capitol building or in Charlottesville?  It's not hard to find footage of police shootings of POC for minor traffic infractions, while the Bundy's of the world are literally pointing their weapons at law enforcement and nothing happens.

 

 

Totally agree. The entire time I am watching these protests... I kept thinking of the Michigan protest against the stay at home orders- there is a stark difference in how each group was treated... 

Armed protesters storming the capitol in Michigan and nothing... nothing... 

George Floyd protesters... unarmed and peacefully protesting boom, crack down. 

What do you think would have happened if the Black protesters were armed to the teeth like these assholes? 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Totally agree. The entire time I am watching these protests... I kept thinking of the Michigan protest against the stay at home orders- there is a stark difference in how each group was treated... 

Armed protesters storming the capitol in Michigan and nothing... nothing... 

George Floyd protesters... unarmed and peacefully protesting boom, crack down. 

What do you think would have happened if the Black protesters were armed to the teeth like these assholes? 

 

 

If history is to repeat itself, America will get new gun control - just like in the days of the Black Panthers.

When Black Panthers Carried Guns, Conservatives Supported Gun Control

The debate around guns has not always been the partisan stalemate it is today. But it has, like so many other political issues in the US, always been partly about race.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/joshuamanson/gun-control-history-race-black-panther-party-conservatives