Least favourite non-Bomber

[Noeller]

3 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I would not actually put Dunigan in that conversation of “best of the best”. 

each to their own, for sure... I've got no problem with that. 

[bearpants]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

and I'll go to bat in saying that he, along with Henry Burris, is one of the most overrated players in league history. AC/Burris/Allen don't belong in the same breath as Flutie, Moon, Ray and Dunigan.....IMO.

Sure, I won't dispute that... but it doesn't mean he wasn't a great QB for a long stretch of time...

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

and I'll go to bat in saying that he, along with Henry Burris, is one of the most overrated players in league history. AC/Burris/Allen don't belong in the same breath as Flutie, Moon, Ray and Dunigan.....IMO.

Gotta disagree just a bit.  Flutie & Moon absolutely - they were in a class by themselves.

But Ray and Calvillo were similar in both style of play and effectiveness.  Lots of dink & dunk with the odd medium or long pass mixed in. 

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, Mark H. said:

Gotta disagree just a bit.  Flutie & Moon absolutely - they were in a class by themselves.

But Ray and Calvillo were similar in both style of play and effectiveness.  Lots of dink & dunk with the odd medium or long pass mixed in. 

as good as Ricky Ray was, I would say he's one of the most underrated players in league history. People have never given him enough credit. Best pure passer I ever witnessed. 

[Jpan85]

Anthony Calvillo is right up there with the best of the QB's that have played in the CFL. Only a couple seasons where he did not shred the Bombers defense.

[17to85]

Honestly Calvillo really benefited from the situation around him. For my money Ray was better, just outside of his Edmonton time didn't have tremendous teams around him. 

Honestly not sure where to slot Dunigan in with the all time club. Guy had a peak as high as anyone IMO, trouble was injuries matter right? 

[SpeedFlex27]

36 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I would not actually put Dunigan in that conversation of “best of the best”. 

The number 713 says hello. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by SpeedFlex27

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly Calvillo really benefited from the situation around him. For my money Ray was better, just outside of his Edmonton time didn't have tremendous teams around him. 

Honestly not sure where to slot Dunigan in with the all time club. Guy had a peak as high as anyone IMO, trouble was injuries matter right? 

Ray isn't just better than Calvillo, he's WAY better. Frito was ridiculous. The argument that Calvillo is an all time great because he shredded the Bombers in the 2000s doesn't really mean much to me. He was good, no question, but as with Damon Allen, he was really overrated. 

[Brandon]

I only question Calvillo because of the book ends of his career....   no doubt in a solid system with a solid cast he was elite.   He looked much more average in his early and later days with sub par teams.    I also don't think injuries (like with Ray) is what made his production slow down.   

The reason I think Ray is more elite is because so many receivers looked absolutely elite when playing with him and then when they were not they suddenly became very average.    

[Noeller]

26 minutes ago, Brandon said:

The reason I think Ray is more elite is because so many receivers looked absolutely elite when playing with him and then when they were not they suddenly became very average.    

Yes. Best pure passer maybe ever.  Doug Flutie is the greatest overall QB this league has ever seen, no question, and could do everything. Pass, run, read defenses as well as anyone...he did everything. Ray was as good a passer and d-reader, and possibly even better, but didn't have the run game. Ray was a surgeon. He doesn't get nearly enough respect for being on the Mount Rushmore of CFL QBs.

[Jpan85]

Ricky threw for 30 TDs once in his career AC did it 7 times. Ray threw for 5000 yards 4 times AC threw for 5000 tyards seven times . 6000 yards once only one of five guys to do that.

[Brandon]

3 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Ricky threw for 30 TDs once in his career AC did it 7 times. Ray threw for 5000 yards 4 times AC threw for 5000 tyards seven times . 6000 yards once only one of five guys to do that.

Jonathan Jennings passed for 5200 yards ..... sometimes stats do not tell the full picture.  

AC was definitely elite... but it didn't hurt that he started with guys like Pringle and moved on to teams with fully stacked o-line and great receivers and a top notch defense.  

If I were to put both guys against each other at their prime and healthy... I choose Ricky Ray.

Also Calvillo had a 3 - 5  Grey Cup record  (and was 1 - 5 before winning his last two)   compared to Ray who had 4 - 1 record in the big game with two different teams.

[Mark H.]

7 hours ago, Noeller said:

as good as Ricky Ray was, I would say he's one of the most underrated players in league history. People have never given him enough credit. Best pure passer I ever witnessed. 

He was underrated by Eskie fans who didn’t know any better. And by Argo fans who thought the new kid in town (Collaros) had more potential. 

[Mark H.]

21 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Jonathan Jennings passed for 5200 yards ..... sometimes stats do not tell the full picture.  

AC was definitely elite... but it didn't hurt that he started with guys like Pringle and moved on to teams with fully stacked o-line and great receivers and a top notch defense.  

If I were to put both guys against each other at their prime and healthy... I choose Ricky Ray.

Also Calvillo had a 3 - 5  Grey Cup record  (and was 1 - 5 before winning his last two)   compared to Ray who had 4 - 1 record in the big game with two different teams.

No doubt.  The Als’ string of first places finishes but poor playoff performances can not be denied. 

[SpeedFlex27]

33 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

No doubt.  The Als’ string of first places finishes but poor playoff performances can not be denied. 

Calvillo did win 3 Grey Cups. I'd gladly take that if Collaros wins 2 more. 

[17to85]

8 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Calvillo did win 3 Grey Cups. I'd gladly take that if Collaros wins 2 more. 

3 grey cups with how many free tickets to the dance? 

Honestly a lot of calvillos success is tied to the team he was on. Look at how many people thought he was done the one year he had a less than superb offensive line. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

16 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The number 713 says hello. 

Oh please. Alfred Jackson once had 308 receiving yards in a game. Fred Reid had 260 rushing yards. Sean Salisbury once threw for 454 yards and 6 TDs in a game. Danny Barrett hit 601 passing. David Archer and Kent Austin each had a season of over 6,000 yards passing. Would you put any of them in the "best of the best" category? One big game (or season) does not make an all-time elite.

[Brandon]

It wasn't like Dunigan was a one game wonder.....  he did fantastic with a bunch of different teams despite having health issues along the way.   

[Blueandgold]

Ray was great, but it’s crazy to me to say he was FAR better than AC. They were on the same tier. Its easy to forget that 3 of Rays 4 GC wins were prior to a real salary cap being implemented. Edmonton was alway a successful team who had more money to spend. 

It’s also worth mentioning that Ray had a mid career lull after the salary cap was Implemented and before he went to Toronto. AC isn’t the only QB who had some lacklustre years.  

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Oh please. Alfred Jackson once had 308 receiving yards in a game. Fred Reid had 260 rushing yards. Sean Salisbury once threw for 454 yards and 6 TDs in a game. Danny Barrett hit 601 passing. David Archer and Kent Austin each had a season of over 6,000 yards passing. Would you put any of them in the "best of the best" category? One big game (or season) does not make an all-time elite.

Actually David Archer and Kent Austin should be considered on par with Dunigan as all time greats 

But Ray, Flutie, Allen - these are elite QBs - Allen has to be in that category because he changed quarterbacking in the CFL really

[Floyd]

1 minute ago, Blueandgold said:

Ray was great, but it’s crazy to me to say he was FAR better than AC. They were on the same tier. Its easy to forget that 3 of Rays 4 GC wins were prior to a real salary cap being implemented. Edmonton was alway a successful team who had more money to spend. 

It’s also worth mentioning that Ray had a mid career lull after the salary cap was Implemented and before he went to Toronto. AC isn’t the only QB who had some lacklustre years.  

Rays mid career lull was from Edmonton’s crap OL

[Pete Catan's Ghost]

Hugh Campbell (the exec. not the player)

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

It wasn't like Dunigan was a one game wonder.....  he did fantastic with a bunch of different teams despite having health issues along the way.   

All I said was Dunigan was not in my conversation of all-time best of the best QBs . Speed's rebuttal was to highlight one game. He was more than a one game wonder, less than the all-time top tier in my view.

[HardCoreBlue]

4 hours ago, Floyd said:

Actually David Archer and Kent Austin should be considered on par with Dunigan as all time greats 

But Ray, Flutie, Allen - these are elite QBs - Allen has to be in that category because he changed quarterbacking in the CFL really

Great point about Allen. He made me a believer of him.

[Noeller]

Damon Allen by far the most overrated CFL QB ever. There's a reason he wasn't a first ballot HOFer......