Renaming Sports Teams

[Bigblue204]

15 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Careful throwing around the "stupid" label. That is unnecessary in my view. We are allowed to express opinions and should not be slagged if it differs for another's. There are people who believe in vaccination, but some who don't. Should we automatically change polio and measles protocols for kids because some are offended by vaccinations? That could be a parallel to your position. (I exaggerate of course, but the way to win that argument is to back up the scientific evidence pro and con in the vaccine discussion, rather than throwing out the "stupid take" vitriol as a fact when it amounts to opinion only).

How about discussing why someone else's point of view may be misguided, not just calling it an incredibly stupid take because you don't see things that way. Cite the people who are offended and why they are offended, and not just assume they must be because you have decided for them. Discussion, not name-calling please.

That's fair. Though I don't see how stupid is any different then snowflake or SWJ when they're being used the way they are. And I will never call the defense of racism anything other then unintelligent. To say only some people find this racist, so I'm not going to stop doing it...is an unintelligent thing to say and do. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Bigblue204

[Bigblue204]

came across this just now on the twitter machine
 

 

[GCn20]

5 hours ago, Floyd said:

It’s a derogatory Cree term that was accidentally adopted by non-indigenous - you are correct

Inupiat and western arctic still use it but probably easiest just to change it

was thinking huskies might work but that also actually was a derogatory name for Inuit culture  and Edmonton yellow heads is hard to chant 

Its actually a Dene term not Cree.

[Floyd]

28 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Its actually a Dene term not Cree.

No you are incorrect - plus is doesn’t even really sound like Dene words

The cree word for eaters of raw meat legit sounds like Eskimo...

 

[TBURGESS]

20 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Its actually a Dene term not Cree.

It means "Eats Raw Meat" in single native language, which is more explanatory than derogatory because they ate raw seal.

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

That's fair. Though I don't see how stupid is any different then snowflake or SWJ when they're being used the way they are. And I will never call the defense of racism anything other then unintelligent. To say only some people find this racist, so I'm not going to stop doing it...is an unintelligent thing to say and do. 

You shouldn't mind being called stupid then, but I won't go there.

I'm not defending racism. I'm defending freedom of speech. If you don't like Eskimo, don't use it. If you don't like Indian, don't use it. If you don't like the N word, don't use it. It doesn't matter what words you don't like. Give them whatever power you want to, just don't call anyone who disagrees with your opinion stupid and don't expect everyone to agree with your definitions.

[Bigblue204]

13 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

It means "Eats Raw Meat" in single native language, which is more explanatory than derogatory because they ate raw seal.

You shouldn't mind being called stupid then, but I won't go there.

I'm not defending racism. I'm defending freedom of speech. If you don't like Eskimo, don't use it. If you don't like Indian, don't use it. If you don't like the N word, don't use it. It doesn't matter what words you don't like. Give them whatever power you want to, just don't call anyone who disagrees with your opinion stupid and don't expect everyone to agree with your definitions.

For the most part, I don't care what people call me. I wasn't the one complaining about using stupid I also didn't complain about people use snowflake or SJW. I simply pointed out how other terms were being used.

lol. So your freedom of speech is ok. But mine isn't? I mean if you don't like the term stupid, don't use it. Even though I didn't actually call you stupid. I don't think you're a stupid person, I do think your opinion on this subject is unintelligent. I also don't expect everyone to agree with me and I don't think I said everyone should...or that I expect everyone to. 
 

[Blueandgold]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 My opinion is that the discussion is important, but that we should not knee-jerk react because someone tells me that others are offended without hearing from the supposed "offended" group, and I do see a lot of that happening. When North Dakota looked at the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, they actually talked with the 10 Native tribes in the area, and apparently 8 of the 10 were happy with the name and saw it as a sign of respect bestowed on the local indigenous peoples. Two did not share that view, and the name got changed. No one died as a result of the debate either way, so in the end this is not a big world issue.

Okay so here’s the rub, 80% like the name and think it’s honourable while 20% think it’s racist. Why are we caving to a vocal minority? In this case, the vast majority of people who have a say in this matter support the decision. Everything offends someone, if we need a consensus to make a decision there won’t be any names in sports(or decisions made in general). If 80% isn’t enough, what is?

Another thing that annoys me about these conversations is that it’s (mostly) white people with no stake in the matter telling everyone else how they need to think. I agree with JT in that if the Inuit people do not like the name that it should be changes. But I don’t think it should be changed if four people consider it honourable and one considers it to be offensive. I don’t know if the Eskimos have talked with tribes in the same way that North Dakota has, but they certainly should. 
 

My personal feeling is that context is important. A football player wears his jersey with pride. I would personally consider it to be an honourable thing to be named after a team. I also believe that using terms like Eskimo in other ways allows the term to evolve and it can take away the racist stigma attached to it. However, as I stated earlier it’s the opinion of the Inuit people that matters. I’m personally not Inuit, so my opinion doesn’t mean a thing here. If a strong majority support the name, it should stay. If a strong majority do not support the name, it should go. It’s really that simple to me. 

[blue_gold_84]

I thought the reference to "eaters of raw meat" was debunked some years ago and was actually believed to refer to "people who tied/wore snowshoes." (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Eskimo-people, https://www.uaf.edu/anlc/resources/inuit_or_eskimo.php)

Granted, the latter seems far less offensive* but when you consider the term "eskimo" has been removed from usage by governments in which the arctic regions operate, I don't think it's unreasonable to float the idea of a professional sports team ceasing usage of that term to name itself and choosing something more acceptable from a sociocultural standpoint in the 21st century.

* offensive is a relative term, IMO, and is subject to the experiences of that particular individual or group

[Floyd]

51 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

It means "Eats Raw Meat" in single native language, which is more explanatory than derogatory because they ate raw seal.

You shouldn't mind being called stupid then, but I won't go there.

I'm not defending racism. I'm defending freedom of speech. 

There is no ‘single native language’ - Eskimo is a derogatory term for inuks used by their mortal enemy the cree

it wasn’t just randomly and accurately describing a people.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

No you are incorrect - plus is doesn’t even really sound like Dene words

The cree word for eaters of raw meat legit sounds like Eskimo...

 

Do you speak Cree? I do.

[Floyd]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Do you speak Cree? I do.

Only a few words of swampy Cree

whats the cree word for ‘you eat raw meat’ - then we can decide if it sounds like Eskimo together

because the Dene words don’t sound anything like it

 

[blue_gold_84]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Do you speak Cree? I do.

What does your ability to speak Cree have to do with you saying it's a Dene term?

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

What does your ability to speak Cree have to do with you saying it's a Dene term?

It has to do with the fact that I know it's not a cree term. Thought that was pretty obvious.

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Only a few words of swampy Cree

whats the cree word for ‘you eat raw meat’ - then we can decide if it sounds like Eskimo together

because the Dene words don’t sound anything like it

 

The original term eskimo became that by the French from the Dene word Ayassemo (sp?). The Cree do not have a term for eater of raw meat. Our term for the Inuit is Atchmikisiw (sp?) which translates to lacer/wearer of snowshoes. The Cree language has very few specific descriptors in the language.

Edited July 9, 2020 by GCn20

[blue_gold_84]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It has to do with the fact that I know it's not a cree term. Thought that was pretty obvious.

https://thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/eskimo

Quote

Origin

The origin of the word Eskimo is a matter of some contention, but it is generally understood to be of Algonquian origin, Innu-aimun (Montagnais) more specifically. It was long thought to mean “eaters of raw meat.” Algonquian language speakers (including dialects of Cree, Innu-aimun and Ojibwa) have used words to describe the Inuit that would substantiate this definition, including ashkipok (Eastern Ojibwa), eshkipot (Ojibwa), askamiciw (Cree), kachikushu (North Shore Montagnais).

However, scholars like Ives Goddard have argued that those forms only support an Ojibwa root, rather than the understood Innu-aimun origin. This theory points to the origin of the word as the Innu-aimun awassimew/ayassimew, which means roughly “one who laces snowshoes.” It is possible that this term was used generally by the Innu to describe the Mi’kmaq, and was later transferred to Inuit upon contact between the two groups. As the word came into use in Ojibwa, its original meaning may have become blurred, as the ashk- prefix can also mean raw or fresh in Ojibwa. French explorers and settlers translated the word to esquimaux, the Danish spelling of which has persisted in English use.

It mentions Cree. It makes no mention of Dene.

What's pretty obvious is you being wrong. Actually, it's blatantly obvious.

[TBURGESS]

9 minutes ago, Floyd said:

There is no ‘single native language’ - Eskimo is a derogatory term for inuks used by their mortal enemy the cree

it wasn’t just randomly and accurately describing a people.

I didn't say there was. I said it was in a single native language. IE not every native language.

FTR: I'm no expert in native languages, I'm only going by what I've read on the subject and the etymology of the word Eskimo isn't as cut and dry as some folks think.

From Wikipedia:

The most commonly accepted etymological origin of the word "Eskimo" is derived by Ives Goddard at the Smithsonian Institution, from the Montagnais (see Algonquian languages) word meaning "snowshoe-netter"^[15] or "to net snowshoes".^[14] The word assime·w means "she laces a snowshoe" in Montagnais. Montagnais speakers refer to the neighbouring Mi'kmaq people using words that sound like eskimo^[37][38]

In 1978, Jose Mailhot, a Quebec anthropologist who speaks Montagnais, published a paper suggesting that Eskimo meant "people who speak a different language".^[39][40] French traders who encountered the Montagnais in the eastern areas, adopted their word for the more western peoples and spelled it as Esquimau in a transliteration.^{[citation needed]}

Some people consider Eskimo offensive because it is popularly perceived to mean^{[15][40][41][42]} "eaters of raw meat" in Algonquian languages common to people along the Atlantic coast.^[14][43][44] One Cree speaker suggested the original word that became corrupted to Eskimo might have been askamiciw (which means "he eats it raw"); the Inuit are referred to in some Cree texts as askipiw (which means "eats something raw").^{[43][44][45][46]}

From Webster:

Eskimo is a word that presents challenges for anyone who is concerned about avoiding the use of offensive language. Its perceived offensiveness stems partly from a now-discredited belief that it was originally a pejorative term meaning "eater of raw flesh," but perhaps more significantly from its being a word imposed on aboriginal peoples by outsiders.

[Eternal optimist]

Well I don't know about the other people in here but I am definitely offended.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

The bolded part is again an incredibly stupid take. "Only some people think this is racist!" lol. No need to change I guess.

I haven't stated anywhere that there is a consensus in the inuit community about the name. There likely never will be. And to ask for a consensus is asinine. It's just not how anything is done for the most part. "A portion of a group of people think that the word....is now racist. how is that enough for a forced change?" You can't see how stupid that comment is? Yes I took words out, I did so to remove your attempt at justifying racism.

I'm not sure how what you shared from wikipedia is any more in favour of keeping the name then what I shared...name was given as an insult...some people are ok with it...some people aren't...Yup that's the story.

In short, some people are totally fine with Eskimo. Some people are not. Yup that pretty much sums up what we're talking about.

Jordan Tootoo said he had no problem with the name Eskimo.  He said older people were  comfortable with it. Don't find it offensive. Neither does he 

[Bigblue204]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Jordan Tootoo said he had no problem with the name Eskimo.  He said older people were  comfortable with it. Don't find it offensive. Neither does he 

yes

[SpeedFlex27]

31 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Wow I'm so lost. But, back to the point....if you're against the name change, you're a racist.

Jordan Tootoo a racist? 

[blue_gold_84]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Jordan Tootoo said he had no problem with the name Eskimo.  He said older people were  comfortable with it. Don't find it offensive. Neither does he 

In his statement, however, he also said his not being offended by the term does not mean the team should keep its name.

He does think the discussion should take place and those affected should be consulted. Needless to say, it is by no means a cut and dry issue.

[Bigblue204]

11 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Jordan Tootoo a racist? 

read Jordans statement again. And then show everyone where he says he is against changing the name.

[SpeedFlex27]

11 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

read Jordans statement again. And then show everyone where he says he is against changing the name.

Tootoo's not but he said it isn't offensive. The message I take from him is that he wouldn't change it.  To me, 10% are making 90% of the noise. It's always like that. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by SpeedFlex27

[Goldkobra]

I'm an aboriginal man, and i consider the term eskimo to be in the same vein as calling a Canadian a canuck or an American a yankee.  It's more of a nickname that can be used as a slur depending on context. I'm not opposed to changing the name, but i don't feel its necessary. 

[Super Duper Negatron]

Why is all the discussion around whether the term is an offensive way to refer to a minority group or not, when really the question should be "why the hell do we need sports teams named after minority groups"?

We can probably all agree that "transgender" isn't an offensive term for a specific group of people, but calling a team the Transgenders would be more than a little messed up.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Super Duper Negatron