2020-21 NFL Discussion Thread

Mr Dee · January 4, 2021

48 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

My response is what would Streveler's passing rating be if he was the full time starter? It wouldn't be pretty.

I’m not sure I can agree with you passing off such a comment.

Mark F · January 4, 2021

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

There are some GMs that would be furious. If that was Earl Lunsford & Russell Wilson was Bomber QB, he'd be traded. I don't think Cal Murphy would have been too happy if Tom Clements helped Joe Pop get a $35,000 bonus by changing the play.

signed a two million dollar contract, on cut down day management said tale 850 or your cut.

screw that ****.

SpeedFlex27 · January 5, 2021

10 hours ago, Mark F said:

why does it make me smug if an athletic event bores me? I cant sit through an entire nfl game.

I prefer the CFL.

But don't make it out that the NFL is some kind of easy. That's as bad as what Esiason said about the CFL as it's wrong.

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

signed a two million dollar contract, on cut down day management said tale 850 or your cut.

screw that ****.

NFL contracts aren't guaranteed for most players. How is what the Seahawks did any worse than a CFL GM cutting a veteran player on a 2 year deal because they owe him his bonus? It's the same ****.

Edited January 5, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

SpeedFlex27 · January 5, 2021

To Mark F & others in this conversation, we may disagree but isn't wonderful to be talking ball again????

Edited January 5, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

SpeedFlex27 · January 5, 2021

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Um....you have it backwards...when Walters became GM he made a point of addressing the line via the Draft. Then it got significantly better. Bryant has been here for a while, he has played on some bad Bomber olines. It got better because our GM/Scouts were able to recognize Canadian talent, AND we had one of the GOATS as a LT. I'm not sure why you chose the Oline to show how bad CND talent can be...I'd say there are far more Cnd linemen in the NFL then any other position.

It took years to develop the first 3 quality Canadian OL. Walters was a big part of that but we still didn't see the fruit of his drafts until at least 2016. By then Drew Willy was a human piniatta. He was getting hit on nearly every play. He never recovered from the fear he felt after his leg was seriously injured. Panicking while standing in the pocket trying to find receivers while his blocking constantly broke down.

17to85 · January 5, 2021

3 hours ago, Booch said:

If a joe average fan had an opportunity to watch a top level NCAA guy, or former NFL name, game in and game out...or the opportunity to watch Billy Joe Jenkins from butt crack Sask who would have a hard time making a PAC 10 school...just cause he's Canadian..well I know what I would want/choose...especially if I am forking out money for it..

I know who I would choose too. And it's Billy Joe from Butt Crack Saskatchewan. If I want to watch the top athletes the NFL already exists. Give me something I can connect to, and that is canadians.

CodyT · January 5, 2021

7 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I know who I would choose too. And it's Billy Joe from Butt Crack Saskatchewan. If I want to watch the top athletes the NFL already exists. Give me something I can connect to, and that is canadians.

I feel I'm in the middle with this discussion. Its hard to watch Brock Ralph's (for example) starting games in the cfl... if the talent could reach the Demski level I would be more satisfied

But sometimes you see some players out there and its a bad look

Booch · January 5, 2021

The CFL itself is the Canadian version of football which already makes it better than the American version...regardless of who is playing...my opinion and not looking for people to jump on board with my thought.

I'll watch it and support it if it was all Chinese players..American..Canadian...Russian, as long as they are the best and the money forked out to watch is worth the talent on the field...plain and simple and hamstringing the GM's with a set amount of players based on Passport should be a thing of the past and teams should be able to earn more leeway based on tenure and loyalty

Sure it's nice to see Billy (Joe..Butt Cracks finest) ply his trade, but come on...you can watch that at the junior...CIS or highschool level, where that player might be a star...Canadians can and always will compete, but I dont think in the numbers that are being force fed on teams...Watch any game, and 9 times out of 10 most of those Canadians who aren't starters rarely hit the field save for a special teams play, so how much enjoyment and excitement does that give the fan, but if you had a guy like a Whitehead, or an extra monster rushing off the edge to come in and cause some havoc...cause it's allowed roster wise...pretty sure nobody would be booing and cancel their seats for the next game....Times are changing as has the ratio over the years....the game is Canadian..Americans have been in it...forever

There has been so many instances where high level guys have balked at coming up here soley based on ratio, and prior FYI's from players here they know..or got turfed due to it that tried and were flat out told to not waste their time. effort and chance from injury because you may be competing for a spot on a team with a player who couldn't start currently with an NCAA team (or be hard pressed) and may only stick...may...if a team finds some lucky gem and can re-work the ratio...we have lost a lot of high end talent from coming, and with that a lot of street cred and ability to truly legitimize the league...and thats just sad....they also know as well there's no chance to get on a roster as a back up special teamer cause majority of those as well are dictated by ratio

..

Bigblue204 · January 5, 2021

15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

It took years to develop the first 3 quality Canadian OL. Walters was a big part of that but we still didn't see the fruit of his drafts until at least 2016. By then Drew Willy was a human piniatta. He was getting hit on nearly every play. He never recovered from the fear he felt after his leg was seriously injured. Panicking while standing in the pocket trying to find receivers while his blocking constantly broke down.

Ok so your argument originally was that our Oline sucked because the team tried drafting Olineman and weren't successful. I'm saying that is not what happened. Before Walters, our drafting of Olineman was basically nil. That WAS the problem...former management did not prioritize drafting linemen. And the team spent years playing americans and trading/signing other teams cast offs.

It wasn't until Walters came in and made olineman a priority in the Draft that the oline got significantly better. Chungh started as a rookie and Goosen was a 2nd year starter. The other 3 positions were given to the best players who happened to be american (1 being an all time great).

Bigblue204 · January 5, 2021

1 hour ago, Booch said:

The CFL itself is the Canadian version of football which already makes it better than the American version...regardless of who is playing...my opinion and not looking for people to jump on board with my thought.

I'll watch it and support it if it was all Chinese players..American..Canadian...Russian, as long as they are the best and the money forked out to watch is worth the talent on the field...plain and simple and hamstringing the GM's with a set amount of players based on Passport should be a thing of the past and teams should be able to earn more leeway based on tenure and loyalty

Sure it's nice to see Billy (Joe..Butt Cracks finest) ply his trade, but come on...you can watch that at the junior...CIS or highschool level, where that player might be a star...Canadians can and always will compete, but I dont think in the numbers that are being force fed on teams...Watch any game, and 9 times out of 10 most of those Canadians who aren't starters rarely hit the field save for a special teams play, so how much enjoyment and excitement does that give the fan, but if you had a guy like a Whitehead, or an extra monster rushing off the edge to come in and cause some havoc...cause it's allowed roster wise...pretty sure nobody would be booing and cancel their seats for the next game....Times are changing as has the ratio over the years....the game is Canadian...Americans have been in it...forever

There has been so many instances where high level guys have balked at coming up here soley based on ratio, and prior FYI's from players here they know..or got turfed due to it that tried and were flat out told to not waste their time. effort and chance from injury because you may be competing for a spot on a team with a player who couldn't start currently with an NCAA team (or be hard pressed) and may only stick...may...if a team finds some lucky gem and can re-work the ratio...we have lost a lot of high end talent from coming, and with that a lot of street cred and ability to truly legitimize the league...and thats just sad....they also know as well there's no chance to get on a roster as a back up special teamer cause majority of those as well are dictated by ratio

..

I see your point. But honestly I think this is becoming an outdated point of view. The talent of Canadians in the game now is the best it's ever been. Yes there are a few guys playing who would lose out on a spot without the ratio, but that is decreasing every year. More and more Canadians are getting signed to the NFL before the CFL and more and more CFLers are signing down south too.

If anything the ratio is giving guys an opportunity who likely wouldn't have been given a shot. You can't ignore the perception American coaches have of Canadian players (though that seems to be changing too). Would Andrew Harris ever have been given a shot to play if he wasn't Canadian? Demski? Boateng? Begelton? These guys aren't exciting to watch play? If we didn't have the ratio, we also don't have home town hero's making legacies for themselves or the story lines that brings. Getting rid of the ratio isn't the answer, developing better Canadians is. And that appears to be happening.

Honestly, I don't care if some wannabe doesn't want to come up here to play. To me, that means they don't have the passion that's needed to make it in the first place, and that's ok too...not everyone can be a CFLer.

Booch · January 5, 2021

10 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I see your point. But honestly I think this is becoming an outdated point of view. The talent of Canadians in the game now is the best it's ever been. Yes there are a few guys playing who would lose out on a spot without the ratio, but that is decreasing every year. More and more Canadians are getting signed to the NFL before the CFL and more and more CFLers are signing down south too.

If anything the ratio is giving guys an opportunity who likely wouldn't have been given a shot. You can't ignore the perception American coaches have of Canadian players (though that seems to be changing too). Would Andrew Harris ever have been given a shot to play if he wasn't Canadian? Demski? Boateng? Begelton? These guys aren't exciting to watch play? If we didn't have the ratio, we also don't have home town hero's making legacies for themselves or the story lines that brings. Getting rid of the ratio isn't the answer, developing better Canadians is. And that appears to be happening.

Honestly, I don't care if some wannabe doesn't want to come up here to play. To me, that means they don't have the passion that's needed to make it in the first place, and that's ok too...not everyone can be a CFLer.

never said some canadians couldn't compete and become stars..they do now, and often....but are the minority...and some may not have become stars as well if the talent pool they were competing against was stronger too...BTW last time i checked Begelton was an import.

And hardly an outdated point of view...sure the canadian boys have gotten way better, and a lot of that has to do with American coaching in American football environments, but at same point those American guys at same time have been getting better too...so thats kind of a wash, and more than a few guys would lose a spot if ratio was reduced, or eliminated. You also hit nail on head that more Canadians than ever have been signed to NFL deals, or PR spots, but that doesn't help elevate the CFL game in anyway, and from my time in the sport the best of the best Canadians always got shots, thats nothing new, it's just more Canadians now have taken their talent to the south for their formative years, and college, and are trained and play as Americans with all the perks, bells and whistles...in essence are basically U.S ball players. The main reason for the lack of Canadian talent, especially at skill positions is soley at the feet of the poor Canadian Football Coaching, Facilities and training available to them here, hence the best generally bolt south for college, or as in many cases finish off their highschool at US prep schools....I see it every year. We run training and combine/development camps and every year the Canadian enrollment grows...this is in the U.S btw...and generally the new crop of guys you can pick out the Canadians and Euro guys right away in skill assessment drills and measurables from the Americans...after a couple off seasons though of proper training and training/scrimmaging at élite talent at their age its like night and day...its just the way it is

Sure the ratio has given a guy the opportunity in a lot of cases to get that chance....can't deny that, won't dispute that...but that doesn't happen overnight, and the end result generally isn't the best option you "could" have had..

Also not sure who you were referring to as some wanna be who wanted to come here and doesn't have the passion to make it...you would be utterly shocked at the talent...recognizable name talent that balked...they had passion, but also brains...why risk injury and future possible lively hood, time and effort to compete for a spot that basically you know you have a 1% shot at making, and thats only if a whole bunch of things go right in your fight for it

Bigblue204 · January 5, 2021

48 minutes ago, Booch said:

never said some canadians couldn't compete and become stars..they do now, and often....but are the minority...and some may not have become stars as well if the talent pool they were competing against was stronger too...BTW last time i checked Begelton was an import.

And hardly an outdated point of view...sure the canadian boys have gotten way better, and a lot of that has to do with American coaching in American football environments, but at same point those American guys at same time have been getting better too...so thats kind of a wash, and more than a few guys would lose a spot if ratio was reduced, or eliminated. You also hit nail on head that more Canadians than ever have been signed to NFL deals, or PR spots, but that doesn't help elevate the CFL game in anyway, and from my time in the sport the best of the best Canadians always got shots, thats nothing new, it's just more Canadians now have taken their talent to the south for their formative years, and college, and are trained and play as Americans with all the perks, bells and whistles...in essence are basically U.S ball players. The main reason for the lack of Canadian talent, especially at skill positions is soley at the feet of the poor Canadian Football Coaching, Facilities and training available to them here, hence the best generally bolt south for college, or as in many cases finish off their highschool at US prep schools....I see it every year. We run training and combine/development camps and every year the Canadian enrollment grows...this is in the U.S btw...and generally the new crop of guys you can pick out the Canadians and Euro guys right away in skill assessment drills and measurables from the Americans...after a couple off seasons though of proper training and training/scrimmaging at élite talent at their age its like night and day...its just the way it is

Sure the ratio has given a guy the opportunity in a lot of cases to get that chance....can't deny that, won't dispute that...but that doesn't happen overnight, and the end result generally isn't the best option you "could" have had..

Also not sure who you were referring to as some wanna be who wanted to come here and doesn't have the passion to make it...you would be utterly shocked at the talent...recognizable name talent that balked...they had passion, but also brains...why risk injury and future possible lively hood, time and effort to compete for a spot that basically you know you have a 1% shot at making, and thats only if a whole bunch of things go right in your fight for it

I could have sworn Begelton was CDN...Wasn't there a big REC in calgary that was? edit: Brescacin is who I was thinking of.

Anyway, that's what I mean. To increase the talent pool in the CFL better Canadian supports are needed. It's an interesting thing to think about (getting rid of the ratio) and I obviously lean towards keeping it. But I don't think there would be a significant jump in entertainment if it were gone.

I honestly don't care if they are big names or not. I don't question their passion for making it in the NFL. But if they don't even want to come and TRY the CFL...obviously their passion for being a professional football player isn't that great. Or they would do it. Yes they would be risking all of the things you mentioned...but that's what it takes to play in the CFL. If they REALLY wanted to play, they would. Like all the Americans currently sitting on the PR.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Bigblue204

17to85 · January 5, 2021

I am not saying people are wrong to want to watch the best of the best, but for me seeing the guys who wouldn't have gotten a chance get that chance is something I personally value.

Booch · January 5, 2021

23 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I could have sworn Begelton was CDN...Wasn't there a big REC in calgary that was? edit: Brescacin is who I was thinking of.

Anyway, that's what I mean. To increase the talent pool in the CFL better Canadian supports are needed. It's an interesting thing to think about (getting rid of the ratio) and I obviously lean towards keeping it. But I don't think there would be a significant jump in entertainment if it were gone.

I honestly don't care if they are big names or not. I don't question their passion for making it in the NFL. But if they don't even want to come and TRY the CFL...obviously their passion for being a professional football player isn't that great. Or they would do it. Yes they would be risking all of the things you mentioned...but that's what it takes to play in the CFL. If they REALLY wanted to play, they would. Like all the Americans currently sitting on the PR.

yeah I assumed it was Brescani..I just didn't remember the name so didnt wanna throw one out there hahaha

And I don't want to rid the ratio, as it gives an avenue for Canadians to get a foot in the door, and get that chance....and yes you still have to have that Canadian content outside the actual CFL game itself in terms of players, but I would like to see more Americans allowed to be role/ST guys and get a shot as well, deepens the talent on the field, as well as encourages more guys to continue their dream, and draws better talent up to Canada.

But there are guys who didn't come not from lack of passion...but being behind the 8-ball right from the get go, and really no shot of landing a spot, other than un-seating an established vet (which rarely happens cause thats playing with fire) and watching a lesser player with no business of being ahead of you on depth chart soley because they have to be...its a shame, but also a nature of the beast of the CFL

TBURGESS · January 5, 2021

The best Canadian's are in the NFL. The next best are the 6 or 7 starting caliber Canadian's on every team. The rest are backups/special teams guys.

I'd love to see what the CFL looked like if the best players in the world played it, but with the ratio and the NFL bucks, that's never going to happen.

Personally, I'd like to see less jobs given to Canadian's simply because of their birth certificate. I'd reduce the number of starting Canucks required by 1 and the number of overall Canucks required on each team by 2 or 3. That would allow teams to have better players at less money while increasing the talent level in the league. It would cost the worst 2 or 3 Canucks on each team their jobs, unless they could beat out the import talent. If they can't do that, then they really don't deserve the roster spots anyway.

Booch · January 5, 2021

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

The best Canadian's are in the NFL. The next best are the 6 or 7 starting caliber Canadian's on every team. The rest are backups/special teams guys.

I'd love to see what the CFL looked like if the best players in the world played it, but with the ratio and the NFL bucks, that's never going to happen.

Personally, I'd like to see less jobs given to Canadian's simply because of their birth certificate. I'd reduce the number of starting Canucks required by 1 and the number of overall Canucks required on each team by 2 or 3. That would allow teams to have better players at less money while increasing the talent level in the league. It would cost the worst 2 or 3 Canucks on each team their jobs, unless they could beat out the import talent. If they can't do that, then they really don't deserve the roster spots anyway.

agreed, and I'd go one step further to honor tenure and loyalty...can count as a non-import...would also encourage continuity, and those Americans who choose that route....would be paid as a starting Canadian and benefit $$ wise as well instead of jumping all over trying to chase the almighty dollar, and generally outside of QB's and the odd superstar never do get to their Canadian counterpart's salary level anyway

Bigblue204 · January 5, 2021

1 hour ago, Booch said:

agreed, and I'd go one step further to honor tenure and loyalty...can count as a non-import...would also encourage continuity, and those Americans who choose that route....would be paid as a starting Canadian and benefit $$ wise as well instead of jumping all over trying to chase the almighty dollar, and generally outside of QB's and the odd superstar never do get to their Canadian counterpart's salary level anyway

Isn't that going to be a new rule though? An american vet on the same team for 3 years will be considered a non import? Or did I just imagine that...

Booch · January 6, 2021

43 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Isn't that going to be a new rule though? An american vet on the same team for 3 years will be considered a non import? Or did I just imagine that...

i think I recall that, but I think to just replace someone when injured...I'd like to see it as an actual starter

SpeedFlex27 · January 6, 2021

7 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Ok so your argument originally was that our Oline sucked because the team tried drafting Olineman and weren't successful. I'm saying that is not what happened. Before Walters, our drafting of Olineman was basically nil. That WAS the problem...former management did not prioritize drafting linemen. And the team spent years playing americans and trading/signing other teams cast offs.

It wasn't until Walters came in and made olineman a priority in the Draft that the oline got significantly better. Chungh started as a rookie and Goosen was a 2nd year starter. The other 3 positions were given to the best players who happened to be american (1 being an all time great).

It took years to build a quality OL that gave us a chance... chance... to win a championship. We were piss poor even with Stanley Bryant playing for us in his prime. In 2013, we had the worst 5 starters in the CFL. It took another 3 years to improve. We drafted Tyson Pencer in 2012 & he never played. We drafted 2 OL in 2011 so I don't know how you can say previous management didn't draft OL. More like Joe Mack's picks weren't very good. And that is the problem trying to build a Canadian OL. It's not like the NFL where the top picks can just slide in & play as they're pro ready. In the CFL most OL picks have liabilities that need work & guys can take 2-3 years before they're ready to start if they do. So, it's a crap shoot.

Mark F · January 9, 2021

Saturday, January 9

MATCHUP		TIME (PT)	NAT TV	TICKETS	LOCATION
Indianapolis	Buffalo	10:05 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $10,852	Bills Stadium, Orchard Park
AFC Wild Card Playoffs
Los Angeles	Seattle	1:40 PM	FOX		Lumen Field, Seattle
NFC Wild Card Playoffs
Tampa Bay	Washington	5:15 PM	NBC		FedExField, Landover
NFC Wild Card Playoffs

Sunday, January 10

MATCHUP		TIME (PT)	NAT TV	TICKETS	LOCATION
Baltimore	Tennessee	10:05 AM		Tickets as low as $198	Nissan Stadium, Nashville
AFC Wild Card Playoffs
Chicago	New Orleans	1:40 PM	CBS	Tickets as low as $573	Mercedes-Benz Superdome, New Orleans
NFC Wild Card Playoffs
Cleveland	Pittsburgh	5:15 PM	NBC	Tickets as low as $473	Heinz Field, Pittsburgh