2020-21 NFL Discussion Thread

[Mr Dee]

Who says everything Strev does would be automatic? I realize that the NFL has bigger players and more athletic but man who would have thought Streveler was going to be so adept at running plays and bulldozing to make those plays work.

I still think he’s a weapon you can use, inside or out. Plays are designed for certain players. Plays should be designed for Strev.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Kingsbury is running the air raid offense he is definitely not running same old NFL concepts.

They all basically run the same thing on the goal line because there's no room to do anything. Hand off 5 yards deep & the back finds the hole or gets tackled for a loss. Or fade into the back of the end zone if they are further out. You guys are actually angry at Kingsbuiry for not putting in Streveler? That's funny.  You'll be angry for a long time. Murray is the Cardinals franchise player & he'll play. Bidwell isn't going to say anything as he probably doesn't know anything about Streveler. 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Stickem said:

Cripes...Streve could have fallen into the end zone and stretched for the td....And besides he's already run a play where he picked them up a crucial first down...He just doesn't get enough of those chances when I feel he should...Just my take

I agree he should get more opportunities, but that doesn't mean he is automatic.

1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

Who says everything Strev does would be automatic? I realize that the NFL has bigger players and more athletic but man who would have thought Streveler was going to be so adept at running plays and bulldozing to make those plays work.

I still think he’s a weapon you can use, inside or out. Plays are designed for certain players. Plays should be designed for Strev.

Too lazy to re-read, but whoever posted that they lost because they didn't put in Streveler because he is a sure thing I believe was the terminology.  Kyler Murray is a far superior running QB and a million times better passer than Streveler. You put him on the field. If Kingsbury doesn't like his odds of a QB sneak then it's probably because he doesn't like the match between his OL and their DL. Also, the FG attempt was not a mistake.

Edited November 30, 2020 by GCn20

[Mark F]

3 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Kingsbury is running the air raid offense he is definitely not running same old NFL concepts.

air raid is don coryell probably forty years old. i think.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Mark F

[Jpan85]

3 minutes ago, Mark F said:

air raid is don coryell probably forty years old.

They are different. Air Raid was developed by a coached named Hal Mumme at Valdosta St. in mid 90's then took it to Univeristy of Kentucky where he turned Tim Coach into first overall pick. On his staff was Mike Leach who made the concept famous by using it at Texas Tech, Washington St and now at Mississippi St. His influence has spread across college football and now a 

Quote

The Scheme is notable for its focus on passing. As many as 65–75% of the calls during a season result in a passing play. The QB has the freedom to audible to any play based on what the defense is showing him at the line of scrimmage. In at least one instance, as a result of the QB's ability to audible, as many as 90%^[4] of the run plays called in a season were chosen by audible at the line of scrimmage.

An important element in this offense is the inclusion of the no huddle. The QB and the offense race up to the line of scrimmage, diagnose what the defense is showing, and then snap the ball based on the QB's play call. This not only allows a team to come back if they are many points down as seen in the 2006 Insight Bowl^[5] but it also allows them to tire out the defense, allowing for bigger runs and longer pass completions. The fast pace limits the defense's ability to substitute players and adjust their scheme. The hurried pace can cause defensive mental mistakes such as missed assignments, being out of position or too many men on the field.

Another important aspect of the Air Raid offense is the split of the offensive linemen. In a conventional offense, the linemen are bunched together fairly tightly but in an Air Raid offense, linemen are often split apart about a half to a full yard from another. While in theory this allows easier blitz lanes, it forces the defensive ends and defensive tackles to run further to reach the quarterback for a sack. The quick, short passes offset any Blitz that may come. Another advantage is that by forcing the defensive line to widen, it opens up wide passing lanes for the QB to throw the ball through with less chance of having his pass knocked down or intercepted.

Fundamental air raid play concepts include Mesh, Stick and Corner, All Curls, 4 Verts, and Fast Screens. These plays are designed to get the ball out of the QB's hand quickly, stretch the defense horizontally and vertically, and allow the QB to key on one defensive player who will forced to make a decision on which receiver to cover in his assigned area. While air raid plays are commonly designed to beat zone coverages, they also work well against man-to-man schemes since air raid offenses often employ receivers with more than average speed, thus giving them an advantage in man-to-man coverage.

The mesh concept is the bread and butter of the air raid offense and stretches the defense vertically with an outside receiver running a deep route, typically a post route, the running back sliding out into the flat after checking for blocking assignments, and the two remaining receivers running shallow crossing routes that setup a natural pick, or coverage rub.

And Coryell offense

Quote

The Coryell offense is based on Sid Gillman's offense that required the defense to defend the entire field.^[4] The passing game was based on timing and rhythm, and coaching the system required a lot of repetition.^[10] Coryell expanded on those principles by putting receivers in motion. With the new defensive rules limiting contact to near the line of scrimmage, receivers in motion would be virtually impossible to jam. Coryell not only placed wide receivers in motion, he did so with tight ends and running backs as well. Putting the players in motion also had the advantage of allowing the quarterback to determine pre-snap if the defense would be playing zone or man-to-man defense.^[4] It was easier to read the coverage before the snap than afterwards due to the pass rush.^[10] It is also harder for a defender to cover if he has to change direction with the receiver instead of squaring up and getting set before a play. Defenses that react to the motion could get confused, leaving a defender in the wrong position.^[11]

The offense did not have any set formations, as receivers could line up anywhere on any given pass play.^[4] Passes were thrown to a spot before the receiver even got there, allowing defenders no hint where the pass was being targeted.^[12] Each receiver had two or three different route options they could adjust depending on the coverage during the play.^[13] Throwing a deep pass was the first option on each play.^[10] Coryell's offense had more progressions than Gillman's, with backup options for screen passes and underneath routes.^[14]

The Coryell offense is a combination of deep and mid range passing and power running.^[15] The offense relies on getting all five receivers out into patterns that combined stretched the field, setting up defensive backs with route technique, and the quarterback throwing to a spot on time where the receiver can catch and turn upfield. Pass protection is critical to success because at least two of the five receivers will run a deep in, skinny post, comeback, speed out, or shallow cross.

Overall, the goal of the Coryell offense is to have at least two downfield, fast wide receivers who adjust to the deep pass very well, combined with a sturdy pocket quarterback with a strong arm. The Coryell offense uses three key weapons. The first is a strong inside running game, the second is its ability to strike deep with two or more receivers on any play, and the third is to not only use those two attacks in cooperation with each other, but to include a great deal of mid-range passing to a TE, WR, or back.

 

[Stickem]

47 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I agree he should get more opportunities, but that doesn't mean he is automatic.

Too lazy to re-read, but whoever posted that they lost because they didn't put in Streveler because he is a sure thing I believe was the terminology.  Kyler Murray is a far superior running QB and a million times better passer than Streveler. You put him on the field. If Kingsbury doesn't like his odds of a QB sneak then it's probably because he doesn't like the match between his OL and their DL. Also, the FG attempt was not a mistake.

Regarding the field goal.....the shank says different...He wouldn't have had to kick a 50 yarder IF Streve lines up behind two of those big o line guys and pummels the line....Murray may be a running qb. but not the type Chris is....He's already proven he can get a yard with that club....why not try it again...Piss poor coaching as far as I'm concerned and probably one of the reasons the Cards will be also rans

[JCon]

45 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Regarding the field goal.....the shank says different...He wouldn't have had to kick a 50 yarder IF Streve lines up behind two of those big o line guys and pummels the line....Murray may be a running qb. but not the type Chris is....He's already proven he can get a yard with that club....why not try it again...Piss poor coaching as far as I'm concerned and probably one of the reasons the Cards will be also rans

Look, we can quibble about the why the Cards lost and whether Strev deserves more touches but you're forgetting the most important thing.... The Cards lost and the 9ers beat LA. It was a great day. Plus, the Patriots moved further down the draft order. 

[bustamente]

49ers will be playing their next 2 home games at State Farm Stadium in Arizona, well at least the field will be in better shape

[rebusrankin]

Fun fact on the Air Raid, Hal Mumme took concepts from Don Matthew's CFL offenses. There is a great book on the development of that offense called, "The Perfect Pass" by S.C. Gwynne.

[bustamente]

Raven and Steelers now moved to Wednesday

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Stickem said:

Regarding the field goal.....the shank says different...He wouldn't have had to kick a 50 yarder IF Streve lines up behind two of those big o line guys and pummels the line....Murray may be a running qb. but not the type Chris is....He's already proven he can get a yard with that club....why not try it again...Piss poor coaching as far as I'm concerned and probably one of the reasons the Cards will be also rans

I don't understand why people are even debating this as it is the Head Coach who makes the decision as to who plays where & when. He won't p[ay. Streveler is a marginal  NFL backup because of his arm & accuracy. He'll never be a long term NFL starter, if at all. He is a niche qb that is successful in a specific type of offense or running certain types of plays as we saw in 2019. I expect to see him back in the CFL in the next 2-3 seasons. 

[Mark F]

singleton not looking that good.

eagles four yards offence halfway theough quarter 2.

[Mr Dee]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He'll never be a long term NFL starter, if at all. He is a niche qb that is successful in a specific type of offense

I don’t think anybody expects Strev to be a starter, but you said it yourself, play in a specific type of offence. That’s the whole point. Run him in a specific type of offence. And they’re not doing that. That’s what he does. That’s who he is. Having him on the bench on short yardage situations is nuts. They’ll failing at that. They’re allowed 2 QBs on the field...why not one being Strev. 
We’ll never know what he can do in the NFL if he never gets that chance.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

I don’t think anybody expects Strev to be a starter, but you said it yourself, play in a specific type of offence. That’s the whole point. Run him in a specific type of offence. And they’re not doing that. That’s what he does. That’s who he is. Having him on the bench on short yardage situations is nuts. They’ll failing at that. They’re allowed 2 QBs on the field...why not one being Strev. 
We’ll never know what he can do in the NFL if he never gets that chance.

Here's the thing. The Cards aren't doing it because they don't want to. Simple as that. There are so many qbs out there that they don't need to. I think Kingsbury will evaluate the backup position this off season & decide whether he wants to bring in an NFL veteran to play behind Murray next year,

Edited December 1, 2020 by SpeedFlex27

[Stickem]

13 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

I don’t think anybody expects Strev to be a starter, but you said it yourself, play in a specific type of offence. That’s the whole point. Run him in a specific type of offence. And they’re not doing that. That’s what he does. That’s who he is. Having him on the bench on short yardage situations is nuts. They’ll failing at that. They’re allowed 2 QBs on the field...why not one being Strev. 
We’ll never know what he can do in the NFL if he never gets that chance.

Exactly.....I hope he gets a chance in opportunities that present themselves...like in the last game...Failing that we have to find the dough and bring him back here (I know   ho ho....would take a Mike Riley type contract and that ain't gonna happen)

[Mark F]

19 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Fun fact on the Air Raid, Hal Mumme took concepts from Don Matthew's CFL offenses. There is a great book on the development of that offense called, "The Perfect Pass" by S.C. Gwynne.

interesting.... his offence was basically unstoppable in the CFL

[Jpan85]

Marcus Sayles released again

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

The desperation of the Streveler fan boys to see him play and their belief that he is the end all be all but for being held back is rivalling Trump supporters who still believe he lost the election. 

[Mr Dee]

11 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

The desperation of the Streveler fan boys to see him play and their belief that he is the end all be all but for being held back is rivalling Trump supporters who still believe he lost the election. 

You’re being sarcastic of course..

[SpeedFlex27]

[Mark F]

18 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

You’re being sarcastic of course..

I dont get the disdain from the person quoted by you,  for the hope some of us have for a guy that played a large part in winningg the cup, and who clearly liked wpg.

I support streveller.  call me a fan boy I guess.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Mark F

[TrueBlue4ever]

My disdain is not for Streveler or those who merely hope he does well. 

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

My disdain is not for Streveler or those who merely hope he does well. 

Can you show us where someone said he is the end all be all of QBs? All I've seen is people wanting him to get a chance and QB sneaks lol.

[Bigblue204]

16 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Can you show us where someone said he is the end all be all of QBs? All I've seen is people wanting him to get a chance at QB sneaks lol.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

No one here hates Streveler. We all want him to do well but the NFL is a different game. I think special teams is more important up here in the CFL than the NFL as they have an extra down to work with on a smaller field. So, the style of play he has just isn't as important in the NFL. Which is why he shone in the Bomber offense last year.

He has to learn to make all the throws if he wants any kind of future in the NFL. Taysom Hill is learning that now as QB of the Saints while Brees is out. It doesn't matter now if he can play running back, qb or receiver. It's can he move the ball for 60 minutes running the entire offense? Not just a handful of plays designed for him. Time will tell. Can Streveler play in an NFL offense & be effective moving the ball or is he just a niche qb who comes in on short yardage?

I also said that once a player leaves he is a former Bomber to me. He's no longer here & although I'd like to see him do well. I didn't become a Cardinals fan because he plays for them.  Nor will I be. So, I look at him as just another NFL rookie trying to do well & keep his job.