2020-21 NFL Discussion Thread

[SpeedFlex27]

9 hours ago, bustamente said:

Streveler is not a drop back passer, if your first option is not there, run

You can't be a one read qb in the NFL or CFL. High school qbs can do better than that with their reads. Streveler is & always will be a "gimmick qb". Give him a set of plays suited to his talents & let him rip in certain game situations. But a full time NFL or CFL qb he will never be. That being said, love to have him back here so Buck can use him the same way LaPo did in 2019. 

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Well the cardinals top receiver was never open. I saw their OL get abused several times. That's a tough outing on a young qb. Especially when you think streveler wasn't even a starter in winnipeg. He doesn't have a ton of playing experience anyway.

Read where media & fans in Arizona want the team to sign a veteran backup to Murray even before this game was played. I expect that will happen as HC Cliff Kingsbury & GM Steve Keim will be under pressure to strengthen significantly the backup qb position. I think that Streveler will at some point be released. I can't see other NFL teams picking him up (but I could be wrong). I hope he ends up back here. 

[SpeedFlex27]

8 hours ago, Mark F said:

yup. slow, predictable, 

If it's slow & predictable why did Chris Streveler struggle today? He should have been able to have been successful but he wasn't. You & other CFL fans who constantly say things like this have to ask yourself that question. Why didn't Streveler do better? You dismiss it like the NFL game is so uncomplicated & predictable that it's easy or something.

It's not. It's a game that is complicated made even moreso with freakishly great athletes playing at every position. I love the CFL but we have mandated inferior Canadian players starting because of the ratio rule who shouldn't even be on the field & can be exploited.

In the NFL the best players play. In the CFL Canadians will play while a better American player sits or is cut. A physical runner like Streveler can easily take on typically smaller CFL defensive linemen & Sam linebackers as they are essentially another 195 lb defensive back used for run support but are primarily slot covers. That & the wider CFL field gives more room to run which is why Strev had such success up here. The NFL is a more physical game with bigger running backs as well as huge O & D lines able to pound teams. The CFL is about speed & finesse. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[Eternal optimist]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

It's not. It's a game that is complicated made even moreso with freakishly great athletes playing at every position. I love the CFL but we have mandated inferior Canadian players starting because of the ratio rule who shouldn't even be on the field & can be exploited.

In the NFL the best players play. In the CFL Canadians will play while a better American player sits or is cut. A physical runner like Streveler can easily take on typically smaller CFL defensive linemen & Sam linebackers as they are essentially another 195 lb defensive back used for run support but are primarily slot covers. That & the wider CFL field gives more room to run which is why Strev had such success up here. The NFL is a more physical game with bigger running backs as well as huge O & D lines able to pound teams. The CFL is about speed & finesse. 

Having Canadian players play in the CFL is part of what makes the league just that - Canadian. Whilst it definitely increases the rift in talent between the CFL and NFL overall, removing the ratio I think would be detrimental overall to the game, it'd basically just turn the CFL into NCAA North Division...

I have no problem with our league paying Canadian players to play a Canadian game. That said though, I will agree that just as there are smug NFL fans that dismiss the CFL, there are similarly smug CFL fans that dismiss the NFL as boring. I don't think either is right personally.

[Mark F]

2 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

CFL, there are similarly smug CFL fans that dismiss the NFL as boring. I don't think either is right personally.

why does it make me smug if an athletic event bores me? I cant sit through an entire nfl game. 

I prefer the CFL. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Mark F

[17to85]

The NFL is boring not because of their rules not the players. It's just such a slow pace to the game. Not individual plays but the time it takes for any action to actually happen... booorrrring. Then you get the largely inconsequential special teams plays. Yeah the CFL has vastly superior rules and I will argue that to the death. 

[Goalie]

9 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The NFL is boring not because of their rules not the players. It's just such a slow pace to the game. Not individual plays but the time it takes for any action to actually happen... booorrrring. Then you get the largely inconsequential special teams plays. Yeah the CFL has vastly superior rules and I will argue that to the death. 

Agreed. More TV stoppages. The 45 second clock.. the game being over with 4 minutes left really. Ok 3 but most times it's over by then. 

 

It's just boring. CFL spoils us a wee bit in terms of action and truly finishes down to the end. Perhaps only rivaled by hockey. 

[Stickem]

Streve had a rough outing yesterday...no doubt about that....It looks like he is more suited to OUR game than the hyped up league to the south....Chris may be given another shot and if not successful he most likely will be looking at coming back to the CFL ...We shall see

[Goalie]

3 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Streve had a rough outing yesterday...no doubt about that....It looks like he is more suited to OUR game than the hyped up league to the south....Chris may be given another shot and if not successful he most likely will be looking at coming back to the CFL ...We shall see

I heard New England was interested before he signed with the Cards. Wonder if Bellichek still is. If not I'd suspect he comes here or follows Lapo. 

[blue_gold_84]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

why does it make me smug if an athletic event bores me? I cant sit through an entire nfl game. 

I prefer the CFL. 

Having a preference doesn't make you smug. Enjoying a particular sport is subjective after all.

I can't stand the clock format in the NFL. If there's time left in a game, finish the damn game.

[Mark F]

re strev...... maybe if he was given plays similar to whay taysom hill initially got, he would have done better.

give him a chance to get confidence.

 

29 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Agreed. More TV stoppages

forty five minutes of ads in one half. not to mention half screen in game ads.

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

re strev...... maybe if he was given plays similar to whay taysom hill initially got, he would have done better  

At some point you have to make the defence fear your arm if you want to have success running the ball as a QB. Hill has shown enough to be a viable threat. Streveler has not done that even in his time in the CFL. His success here in the short term was largely based on having Harris and Demski as viable options out of the backfield so teams could not just key on him on random plays. That credit goes to LaPolice despite many not wanting to give that due credit. When Streveler became the full time starter after Nichols’ injury, teams got wise by spying him and forcing him to beat them with his passing. For the most part, he was unsuccessful and that is why they rushed in Collaros to save the season. The question is will he become a Turner Gill who shows that he has no real talent as a QB and is a glorified runner who can throw a ball but does not have the mental skill set to pick apart a defence, or does he become a Henry Burris or Tracy Ham who learns the passing game and evolves out of the “gimmick running QB” mould to become a mobile passer?

Edited January 4, 2021 by TrueBlue4ever

[Eternal optimist]

2 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Having a preference doesn't make you smug. Enjoying a particular sport is subjective after all.

I can't stand the clock format in the NFL. If there's time left in a game, finish the damn game.

Yeah, I have always found it odd how you can end up with a rather exciting endings in the NFL sometimes, or just QB kneels, especially if the opposition has no timeouts. I also prefer the CFL, I guess a better question is... what would you do to fix it? Here are a couple of thoughts

1. Allow the clock to run in the last 2 minutes, but have it cap out at 20 seconds before the ball is snapped? (This works around the 40-second play clock in the NFL)
2. Shorten the play clock as is done in the CFL to speed up pace and number of plays?
3. Not have the clock run in the final two minutes?

... thoughts?

[bustamente]

So some teams are looking at Urban Meyer as HC, his response 12 millions a year please

[SpeedFlex27]

8 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Having Canadian players play in the CFL is part of what makes the league just that - Canadian. Whilst it definitely increases the rift in talent between the CFL and NFL overall, removing the ratio I think would be detrimental overall to the game, it'd basically just turn the CFL into NCAA North Division...

I have no problem with our league paying Canadian players to play a Canadian game. That said though, I will agree that just as there are smug NFL fans that dismiss the CFL, there are similarly smug CFL fans that dismiss the NFL as boring. I don't think either is right personally.

I agree. I just used Canadians as an example of a disadvantage the CFL has as others have said that the NFL is slow & boring. I don't have a problem playing Canadians by the way. It is a part of our heritage. But people here diss the NFL when they ignore the fact that our game has disadvantages as well. The "I hate the NFL" crowd will say they are proudly Canadian. Some say really dumb things here & elsewhere saying the CFL is better than the NFL. Well, Esiason is American & is obviously just as proud of the NFL so he sais what he said. Yes, it was unfair to Streveler & the CFL. But what did he say that was so different than people here continuosly dissing the NFL or calling it slow & boring? Why should Esisason be any different than a Canadian blindly defending the CFL? I like both games. I appreciate what both bring to the table as a fan.

Edited January 4, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[Mark F]

good nfl story teammates helping others get bonuses.

https://sports.yahoo.com/seattle-called-a-kneeldown-but-russell-wilson-changed-the-play-to-get-david-moore-a-100000-bonus-142708821.html

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, Mark F said:

good nfl story teammates helping others get bonuses.

https://sports.yahoo.com/seattle-called-a-kneeldown-but-russell-wilson-changed-the-play-to-get-david-moore-a-100000-bonus-142708821.html

There are some GMs that would be furious. If that was Earl Lunsford & Russell Wilson was Bomber QB, he'd be traded. I don't think Cal Murphy would have been too happy if Tom Clements helped Joe Pop get a $35,000 bonus by changing the play. 

[itchy]

For Strev, I think it would have made a big difference if the team knew right away he'd have to play significant minutes. The coaches can game plan around his strengths, and he could get 1st team reps. you see that everywhere, starter goes down, back up and team have to go in there and try to adjust.

The Rams back up got that when they knew Goff would be out. Murray went down early in the game, huge difference. Not to mention that Rams D looking for some juicy stats when Murray went down.

Edited January 4, 2021 by itchy

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, itchy said:

For Strev, I think it would have made a big difference if the team knew right away he'd have to play significant minutes. The coaches can game plan around his strengths, and he could get 1st team reps. you see that everywhere, starter goes down, back up and team have to go in there and try to adjust.

The Rams back up got that when they knew Goff would be out. Murray went down early in the game, huge difference. Not to mention that Rams D looking for some juicy stats when Murray went down.

Backup qbs are expected to be ready when they go in as injuries happen at any time. Yes, backup qbs don't get a lot of reps with the first team but that doesn't matter when they go in. Look at what happened last night when Philly head coach Doug Pederson benched Jalen Hurts. The backup went in & sucked. The Cards expected Streveler to go in & perform well. We'd expect the same thing if Collaros got injured & McGuire had to play. 

[Booch]

I...Being a Canadian who played, to be honest could care less about the ratio, and really would rather see the best of the best play, have some Canadian content sure, keep the rules but getting rid of the better talent to meet a roster requirement is counter productive. I am in the camp you reward top level Americans who show loyalty with same club as Non Import status guys after 4 years with same team, as long as they continue to re-up..it benefits team...player and fanbase

If a joe average fan had an opportunity to watch a top level NCAA guy, or former NFL name, game in and game out...or the opportunity to watch Billy Joe Jenkins from butt crack Sask who would have a hard time making a PAC 10 school...just cause he's Canadian..well I know what I would want/choose...especially if I am forking out money for it..

As for the poster who said it would be equivalent of just becoming NCAA North...You are way off the mark there...sorry...Sure the college game is glitzy and looks so high end, but all those powerhouse teams if lucky have 2..maybe 3 élite guys who are can't miss guys, the core are guys who if get an opportunity at next level "may" make a pro team (NFL or CFL) and the majority are just guys playing out the boyhood dream and string and fall off the map after they are done...I played in the NCAA and know the talent drop off from pros to school...its huge, and u are for most part talking about teenagers and 20..21..22 yr olds against men...it be a ass whipping...and even with a CFL team...and thats not even factoring in the perceived under valuing of the talent in Canada. Players and coaches who have toiled in both will all tell you the same...sure the NFL gets the cream of the crop for skilled guys for the most part, and then fill their rosters with body types and specialists for certain roles. They all aren't the athletic freaks people like to think they are...you try and run a defence in canada with no huddle offence against u...20 second play clock and all the motion and looks that can get presented their heads will be spinning and those dline man would be toast..quickly

An NFL team may have 7-10 genetic freaks where a CFL team may have 2..maybe 3....but the overall athlete needed in the Canadian game is far superior...Talk to any AMerican player who played here...or still is..they will tell u

QB in CFL as well needs to be probably more intelligent and also have a quicker processing of info..with all the varied looks, the more complex offences to run, and that doesnt even factor in that extra man...You ever wonder why a lot of young qb's make what looks like a stupid throw, or right at a defender and u go.."how the fguck did he not see that guy?!?!?"

Well he didn't...don't expect a guy to be therte, or comes from a spot they not used to...that defender is a ghost to them, and they get burned by it...and then start to second guess..and hang on to balls too long...cause they flustered...

Fact of the matter its a totally different game..apples to oranges..and U.S trained guys who excel here, are the better all around athlete in regards to brain....skillset, and conditioning...not the best football players walking the planet, but the best football players playing a diffgerent brand of football...don't get me wrong here either saying the top nfl recievers..db's ..rb's etc etc wouldnt excell...they would, but that whole NFL roster wouldn't

[Mr Dee]

There are pros and cons, but this is interesting.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

22 minutes ago, Booch said:

I...Being a Canadian who played, to be honest could care less about the ratio, and really would rather see the best of the best play, have some Canadian content sure, keep the rules but getting rid of the better talent to meet a roster requirement is counter productive. I am in the camp you reward top level Americans who show loyalty with same club as Non Import status guys after 4 years with same team, as long as they continue to re-up..it benefits team...player and fanbase

If a joe average fan had an opportunity to watch a top level NCAA guy, or former NFL name, game in and game out...or the opportunity to watch Billy Joe Jenkins from butt crack Sask who would have a hard time making a PAC 10 school...just cause he's Canadian..well I know what I would want/choose...especially if I am forking out money for it..

As for the poster who said it would be equivalent of just becoming NCAA North...You are way off the mark there...sorry...Sure the college game is glitzy and looks so high end, but all those powerhouse teams if lucky have 2..maybe 3 élite guys who are can't miss guys, the core are guys who if get an opportunity at next level "may" make a pro team (NFL or CFL) and the majority are just guys playing out the boyhood dream and string and fall off the map after they are done...I played in the NCAA and know the talent drop off from pros to school...its huge, and u are for most part talking about teenagers and 20..21..22 yr olds against men...it be a ass whipping...and even with a CFL team...and thats not even factoring in the perceived under valuing of the talent in Canada. Players and coaches who have toiled in both will all tell you the same...sure the NFL gets the cream of the crop for skilled guys for the most part, and then fill their rosters with body types and specialists for certain roles. They all aren't the athletic freaks people like to think they are...you try and run a defence in canada with no huddle offence against u...20 second play clock and all the motion and looks that can get presented their heads will be spinning and those dline man would be toast..quickly

An NFL team may have 7-10 genetic freaks where a CFL team may have 2..maybe 3....but the overall athlete needed in the Canadian game is far superior...Talk to any AMerican player who played here...or still is..they will tell u

QB in CFL as well needs to be probably more intelligent and also have a quicker processing of info..with all the varied looks, the more complex offences to run, and that doesnt even factor in that extra man...You ever wonder why a lot of young qb's make what looks like a stupid throw, or right at a defender and u go.."how the fguck did he not see that guy?!?!?"

Well he didn't...don't expect a guy to be therte, or comes from a spot they not used to...that defender is a ghost to them, and they get burned by it...and then start to second guess..and hang on to balls too long...cause they flustered...

Fact of the matter its a totally different game..apples to oranges..and U.S trained guys who excel here, are the better all around athlete in regards to brain....skillset, and conditioning...not the best football players walking the planet, but the best football players playing a diffgerent brand of football...don't get me wrong here either saying the top nfl recievers..db's ..rb's etc etc wouldnt excell...they would, but that whole NFL roster wouldn't

Good comments, Booch. What brings the CFL down is the ratio. Look at how bad our OL was for so many years. That's because we tried to build it thru the draft for so long & we failed. It just took so damned long for Canadian OL to learn how to play in the CFL. Like years. It wasn't until Kyle Walters took over that we found some prospects that did pan out, start & play extremely well for us & we went to having a minimum of 2 American OL starting.

However, look what happens if one of our starting American tackles go down like Stanley Bryant. We have to slide a Canadian into his place from another position. Probably a Canadian who is probably a guard. Everybody on that OL is affected & the quality of play goes down. The ratio can create huge gaps inn talent between an American starter & his Canuck backup.

If Andrew Harris got hurt, who comes out when an American running back goes in? We've been lucky to have Canadian backs who can fill in but what if we didn't? An American starter somewhere else comes out which causes all kinds of issues with talent on the field & quality of play. 

4 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

There are pros and cons, but this is interesting.

 

My response is what would Streveler's passing rating be if he was the full time starter? It wouldn't be pretty. 

[Noeller]

I know I'm probably in a miniscule minority, but Canadian players are a big part of why I watch CFL football and not NFL. It's our game, our people. I don't care to necessarily see the best possible players.... I am all about Canada, and as much of that as we can get.

[wpgallday1960]

23 hours ago, BomberBall said:

Is that Boomer doing the colour?  when CS threw the pick he said this isn’t the Grey Cup, this isn’t the CFL, you can’t make throws like that.  What an ignorant prick.

Esiason can shove it up his ass.  All QBs make bad decisions including Tom Brady.  Boomer made his share, too.

[Bigblue204]

51 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Good comments, Booch. What brings the CFL down is the ratio. Look at how bad our OL was for so many years. That's because we tried to build it thru the draft for so long & we failed. It just took so damned long for Canadian OL to learn how to play in the CFL. Like years. It wasn't until Kyle Walters took over that we found some prospects that did pan out, start & play extremely well for us & we went to having a minimum of 2 American OL starting.

However, look what happens if one of our starting American tackles go down like Stanley Bryant. We have to slide a Canadian into his place from another position. Probably a Canadian who is probably a guard. Everybody on that OL is affected & the quality of play goes down. The ratio can create huge gaps inn talent between an American starter & his Canuck backup.

If Andrew Harris got hurt, who comes out when an American running back goes in? We've been lucky to have Canadian backs who can fill in but what if we didn't? An American starter somewhere else comes out which causes all kinds of issues with talent on the field & quality of play. 

My response is what would Streveler's passing rating be if he was the full time starter? It wouldn't be pretty. 

Um....you have it backwards...when Walters became GM he made a point of addressing the line via the Draft. Then it got significantly better. Bryant has been here for a while, he has played on some bad Bomber olines. It got better because our GM/Scouts were able to recognize Canadian talent, AND we had one of the GOATS as a LT. I'm not sure why you chose the Oline to show how bad CND talent can be...I'd say there are far more Cnd linemen in the NFL then any other position.