2021 (??) CFL Season

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 hours ago, M.O.A.B. said:

yup worse trade ever.

Back on December 12, 2011 former Edmonton Eskimos GM Eric Tillman stunned the CFL by dealing Ricky Ray to the Toronto Argonauts for a first-round pick , quarterback Steven Jyles and kicker Grant Shaw.

The Jason Maas from Hamilton to Edmonton for “future considerations” just before Edmonton’s Grey Cup run (2003 I think) was worse. The future considerations was - Jason Maas - at the start of the next season. 

46 minutes ago, Mike said:

I don’t understand why people are so confused about the Toronto roster and how they afford it. They’ve got their money allocated in strange ways, but it’s pretty easy to see how they afford things.

Their OL is pretty underwhelming and they’re not paying 200k to a running back. They’re going to be an interesting team to watch, but they’ve got all kinds of question marks and their money is so poorly allocated. No protection whatsoever for Arbuckle, but sure have fun with your 38 different star linebackers. 

The penalties for exceeding the salary cap are so inconsequential that it makes more sense to build a championship roster and make extra Grey Cup revenue by cheating than by playing by the rules. I wish the Bombers did it more, and I won’t slag any team that takes advantage of it. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by TrueBlue4ever

[rebusrankin]

Have you seen the projected Riders starting OL? Cripes. Vaughn who is still in a knee brace, rookie Logan Ferland, Dan Clark, Evan Johnson and Brett Boyko at the other tackle. So a guy who should not be playing RT, a C whose lousy, a rookie Canadian guard, a beat up LT and a solid guard.

[Mike]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Have you seen the projected Riders starting OL? Cripes. Vaughn who is still in a knee brace, rookie Logan Ferland, Dan Clark, Evan Johnson and Brett Boyko at the other tackle. So a guy who should not be playing RT, a C whose lousy, a rookie Canadian guard, a beat up LT and a solid guard.

I can’t wait until Labour Day

[Bubba Zanetti]

9 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Have you seen the projected Riders starting OL? Cripes. Vaughn who is still in a knee brace, rookie Logan Ferland, Dan Clark, Evan Johnson and Brett Boyko at the other tackle. So a guy who should not be playing RT, a C whose lousy, a rookie Canadian guard, a beat up LT and a solid guard.

I can see them bringing in some of the linemen bring cut. Im surprised Thaddeus Coleman hasnt been signed already.

[Booch]

6 hours ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

I can see them bringing in some of the linemen bring cut. Im surprised Thaddeus Coleman hasnt been signed already.

He sucks as much as the others...that online and depth..or lack there of is embarrassing..management there should be on thin ice for sure..pathetic but looks good on those assbags

[stevethe3rd]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

He sucks as much as the others...that online and depth..or lack there of is embarrassing..management there should be on thin ice for sure..pathetic but looks good on those assbags

I dont know about that. Hard to prepare for 4 retirements at the same position in the weeks before the season. 

[Noeller]

2 hours ago, stevethe3rd said:

I dont know about that. Hard to prepare for 4 retirements at the same position in the weeks before the season. 

Riders OL was dog **** in 2019 and somehow got much worse. Embarrassment to the league. 

[Bigblue204]

16 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Riders...Embarrassment to the league. 

Ftfy

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, stevethe3rd said:

I dont know about that. Hard to prepare for 4 retirements at the same position in the weeks before the season. 

That ol was among the worst before the retirements. 

[stevethe3rd]

18 hours ago, Noeller said:

Riders OL was dog **** in 2019 and somehow got much worse. Embarrassment to the league. 

 

 

18 hours ago, wbbfan said:

That ol was among the worst before the retirements. 

Dog **** but gave up the second lowest sack total only behind Winnipeg which passed at a lot lower rate. Had a CFL hall of famer at LG, and all star centre, and Right guard that stuck in the NFL for the last year. Add in the fact that their 6th and 7th olineman are now projected starters on another team and the reality is a little different then the narrative here. 

[Noeller]

Just now, stevethe3rd said:

 

 

Dog **** but gave up the second lowest sack total only behind Winnipeg which passed at a lot lower rate. Had a CFL hall of famer at LG, and all star centre, and Right guard that stuck in the NFL for the last year. Add in the fact that their 6th and 7th olineman are now projected starters on another team and the reality is a little different then the narrative here. 

What's incredible is that you truly believe it..... 

[stevethe3rd]

34 minutes ago, Noeller said:

What's incredible is that you truly believe it..... 

I presented facts, these are things that can be measured and are all true. I would like to see you dispute these facts with some actual arguments not just your feelings and parroting narratives and talking points without much substance. 

[rebusrankin]

Same line that gave up 3 sacks in the West Final and failed to get it into the end zone on eight different attempts from inside the Winnipeg 10 in the 4th quarter. Those are facts too.

[wbbfan]

48 minutes ago, stevethe3rd said:

 

 

Dog **** but gave up the second lowest sack total only behind Winnipeg which passed at a lot lower rate. Had a CFL hall of famer at LG, and all star centre, and Right guard that stuck in the NFL for the last year. Add in the fact that their 6th and 7th olineman are now projected starters on another team and the reality is a little different then the narrative here. 

Sacks aren't the be all and end all stat for an ol. Fajardo ran for his life and avoided a bunch of sacks. The number of pressures given up by the ssk ol was among the worst. 

A hofer past his prime is not an asset. In Winnipeg we've had a few of those guys over the years. 

Allstar status in the cfl is junk. We've seen Allstars one year un signed by any team the next year. It's a popularity contest among good teams. Not an indicator of success. 

Sitting on a pr in the NFL as an ol also does not mean you can play it means you have potential and size.

 The worst teams and units make poor use of good talent. And even at that who is projecting this plus bad olines cycle through other teams former guys like crazy trying to find replacements. Good teams do this and succeed like we did with bond Hardrick and Neufeld. Bad teams do this and fail to utilize players well and cut good players. Like the riders cutting bond dennis etc. 

 We've seen in the past every team get rid of or not retain a depth guy for a vet only for the depth guy to grow into a star. Bad teams cling to old Bad players and let good players go all the time. 

[Noeller]

12 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

A hofer past his prime is not an asset. 

I dunno I think @Mark H.

Has some life left in him.... 

[Mark H.]

12 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I dunno I think @Mark H.

Has some life left in him.... 

Well...more or less...

Seriously though, I would say there's nothing wrong with getting another season or two out of an effective player who's older, especially a shut down OL. Stanley Bryant is an example. Back in the day, we got another good year out of Andrew Greene. 

[stevethe3rd]

16 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Sacks aren't the be all and end all stat for an ol. Fajardo ran for his life and avoided a bunch of sacks. The number of pressures given up by the ssk ol was among the worst. 

A hofer past his prime is not an asset. In Winnipeg we've had a few of those guys over the years. 

Allstar status in the cfl is junk. We've seen Allstars one year un signed by any team the next year. It's a popularity contest among good teams. Not an indicator of success. 

Sitting on a pr in the NFL as an ol also does not mean you can play it means you have potential and size.

 The worst teams and units make poor use of good talent. And even at that who is projecting this plus bad olines cycle through other teams former guys like crazy trying to find replacements. Good teams do this and succeed like we did with bond Hardrick and Neufeld. Bad teams do this and fail to utilize players well and cut good players. Like the riders cutting bond dennis etc. 

 We've seen in the past every team get rid of or not retain a depth guy for a vet only for the depth guy to grow into a star. Bad teams cling to old Bad players and let good players go all the time. 

Labbatte is still good. He is not in the 2015 level but he is still one of the best guards in the CFL when healthy. He is not a liability. Saying he is not an asset is pure ignorance or trolling.  Clark is a solid center. He is not the best in the league, Sean Macewan is very good and Ucambre Williams is up there when he plays centre but he is still very solid and is easily in the next tier. 

You have to be a good football player to get 2 chances at the NFL like Dakota Shepley, he had one stint after his UBC days and he was on 49ers pr for most of last year and even dressed for a couple games. If Shepley shakes free from the 49ers and come back to CFL he will be an automatic upgrade on most teams oline. Even the bombers. 

As far as the Dennis/Bond that is the last regime, Bond was brought in to see if he could play tackle and he couldnt so he was released. Dennis was brought in and was a little out of shape. He also struggled to transition to the Riders protection differences from Calgary and how they asked him to play (im not going to get into this because it is actually pretty complicated) but essentially the Riders have  their tackles to set shallow in work alot with the guard. Where the stamps guards had freedom to set vertical. 

[wbbfan]

Just now, Mark H. said:

Well...more or less...

Seriously though, I would say there's nothing wrong with getting another season or two out of an effective player who's older, especially a shut down OL. Stanley Bryant is an example. Back in the day, we got another good year out of Andrew Greene. 

Stanley bryant has yet to taper off. Knock on wood. 

[Mark H.]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Stanley bryant has yet to taper off. Knock on wood. 

And I would take a tapered off Stanley Bryant, over a LONG LIST of other OL. 

[Noeller]

Stanley Bryant is going to be in the conversation for the best OL to ever play 3 down football. Right now Walby is the best ever but Bryant is in that conversation... 

[wbbfan]

Just now, stevethe3rd said:

Labbatte is still good. He is not in the 2015 level but he is still one of the best guards in the CFL when healthy. He is not a liability. Saying he is not an asset is pure ignorance or trolling.  Clark is a solid center. He is not the best in the league, Sean Macewan is very good and Ucambre Williams is up there when he plays centre but he is still very solid and is easily in the next tier. 

You have to be a good football player to get 2 chances at the NFL like Dakota Shepley, he had one stint after his UBC days and he was on 49ers pr for most of last year and even dressed for a couple games. If Shepley shakes free from the 49ers and come back to CFL he will be an automatic upgrade on most teams oline. Even the bombers. 

As far as the Dennis/Bond that is the last regime, Bond was brought in to see if he could play tackle and he couldnt so he was released. Dennis was brought in and was a little out of shape. He also struggled to transition to the Riders protection differences from Calgary and how they asked him to play (im not going to get into this because it is actually pretty complicated) but essentially the Riders have  their tackles to set shallow in work alot with the guard. Where the stamps guards had freedom to set vertical. 

Labbatte is replacement level around the league at best. He wouldnt crack our top 7. Hes not a top guard and hasnt been in a good while. 

 You dont have to be a good player, the biggest busts in nfl history got multiple chances. If you are big and athletic but cant play a lick you can get multiple looks. Even more so if you are an outlier in size or speed for your nfl position.  The NFL has a massive number of players invited to camp, not all of them are good players and many of them have been in other camps or will be. Pat barnes was not a good player. 

 Bond was a huge dollar pick up, he was brought in and then moved to T. We saw previously here he couldnt excel at tackle. You dont sign a huge dollar vet all star ol only hoping he could play another position then cut him. Thats revisionist history. 

 With both bond and dennis the riders though they could plug new pieces into a bad OL and cure the bad OL. But thats not how it works. OL more than any other position is not the sum of its parts. Its the strength of the group as a unit. Pinching the tackles for gap elimination is not harder on the tackle its the other way around. Playing tackle on an island is harder. Its also some thing every team does situationally. Especially if you primarily run man blocking schemes instead of zone. 

[stevethe3rd]

6 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Labbatte is replacement level around the league at best. He wouldnt crack our top 7. Hes not a top guard and hasnt been in a good while. 

 You dont have to be a good player, the biggest busts in nfl history got multiple chances. If you are big and athletic but cant play a lick you can get multiple looks. Even more so if you are an outlier in size or speed for your nfl position.  The NFL has a massive number of players invited to camp, not all of them are good players and many of them have been in other camps or will be. Pat barnes was not a good player. 

 Bond was a huge dollar pick up, he was brought in and then moved to T. We saw previously here he couldnt excel at tackle. You dont sign a huge dollar vet all star ol only hoping he could play another position then cut him. Thats revisionist history. 

 With both bond and dennis the riders though they could plug new pieces into a bad OL and cure the bad OL. But thats not how it works. OL more than any other position is not the sum of its parts. Its the strength of the group as a unit. Pinching the tackles for gap elimination is not harder on the tackle its the other way around. Playing tackle on an island is harder. Its also some thing every team does situationally. Especially if you primarily run man blocking schemes instead of zone. 

First statement is false. If you actually believe that I challenge you to watch the games again. 

Biggest busts=High draft picks. Shepley was not drafted and signed two different times. So that comparison is off. Shepley has been invited to 3 camps and has been invited back to the same team that had him the year before. He is also not an outlier for size or athleticism in the NFL so you can't say he is just there because of his size. 

I'm agreeing with you on Bond, I pretty much said that didnt I? 

As far as the short set it can be harder on the tackle. If you are reading inside out on a shallow set then you have to react to a speed rusher on the outside that puts alot of pressure on the tackles athletic ability. Being able to just kick deep and get there against a guy like Willy Jefferson puts you in a better postion. The shallow set almost puts you in a chase mode off the bat. 

[rebusrankin]

So honest question as a Rider fan, are you not worried about that OL, DL and linebacking core?

[Super Duper Negatron]

Here's a fact: Riders suck.

[stevethe3rd]

5 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

So honest question as a Rider fan, are you not worried about that OL, DL and linebacking core?

Oh I'm 100% worried about the Oline this discussion was about 2019 Oline not this years. The Riders season could look alot like BC's in 2019 if the line struggles.

Not super worried about  Dline, it won't be as good but I think will be league average playing two American DTs should help and AC is a good DE but the other side if for sure a question mark.

Linebackers I don't personally value as important as the line, with Lacey being there they should be okay. I am more worried about SAM in the linebacker core as that is an important position and it looks like they have a raw rookie starting there. Derrick Moncreif will be the biggest loss I think.