2021 (??) CFL Season

[Noeller]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out Jesse's post......I almost thought it was sarcastic and maybe I was missing the joke. I mean, we didn't start playing till August, right? Those numbers are lower than normal because we missed 1/3 of the season...

[Geebrr]

In 2018 BLM won MOP with:

2018

CGY

18

356

585

5124

35

14

In 2017 Michael Reilly win MOP with:

2017

EDM

18

447

654

5830

30

13

 

Sure the yardage is more in both cases but they are throwing way more. TDs are pretty similar.

[Geebrr]

2021 Collaros PA: 28/game 30 TDs 

2018 BLM PA:  33/game 35 TDs

2017 Reilly PA: 36/game 30 TDs

I don't see the problem.Obviously ZC is not playing 18 games but you are making this decision based on this year and deciding it isn't good enough to be a real MOP.

[Jesse]

30 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

On pace for 30 TDs vs 10 INT completing 71%  for 4634 yards are not MOP numbers?

On a first place team?

 

I don’t think those numbers should be far and away the best in the league,  no. He should be in the running with a couple of other guys. But his TDs are currently almost double the next guy down.

I wasn’t trying to take a shot at Collaros, I’m lamenting the league offence as a whole.

30 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out Jesse's post......I almost thought it was sarcastic and maybe I was missing the joke. I mean, we didn't start playing till August, right? Those numbers are lower than normal because we missed 1/3 of the season...

This is not a 2021 issue. 
 

This is a league problem that’s been trending for years. Ive been thinking Ming this for a while and a couple articles have come out recently that describe the same issue. Do you really feel offences are performing as effectively as they used to?

 

[Geebrr]

1 minute ago, Jesse said:

I don’t think those numbers should be far and away the best in the league,  no. He should be in the running with a couple of other guys. But his TDs are currently almost double the next guy down.

I wasn’t trying to take a shot at Collaros, I’m lamenting the league offence as a whole.

But those numbers match up well against the last two QBs to win MOP and two of the best QBs of their era.

Why is it his fault he is playing way better than everyone else? 

4 minutes ago, Jesse said:

This is not a 2021 issue. 
 

This is a league problem that’s been trending for years. Ive been thinking Ming this for a while and a couple articles have come out recently that describe the same issue. Do you really feel offences are performing as effectively as they used to?

 

I am not interested in what the NFL has done to make playing Defence borderline impossible.

I like defence. 

[Jesse]

5 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

But those numbers match up well against the last two QBs to win MOP and two of the best QBs of their era.

Why is it his fault he is playing way better than everyone else? 

This is not about Collaros. This is about the entire league.

I’m sorry if I upset everyone by using Zach as an example - I did not mean that he wasn’t deserving - simply that his numbers shouldn’t be this far ahead of the rest of the field. I’m questioning what’s wrong with everyone else - not Zach.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Jesse

[Geebrr]

Delete 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Geebrr
Double post hit like Cody Fajardo

[Jesse]

17 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

But those numbers match up well against the last two QBs to win MOP and two of the best QBs of their era.

Why is it his fault he is playing way better than everyone else? 

I am not interested in what the NFL has done to make playing Defence borderline impossible.

I like defence. 

But the CFL has also made rule changes to increase scoring - yet scoring keeps decreasing. Lower than in the “glory days” where defences could do whatever the hell they wanted and concussions prevailed. 
 

This is an issue. Despite the fact that is hardcore fans, who talk on message boards in our free time and support the league no matter what, offence drives interest. Quarterbacks who dominate become the face of teams/leagues. It’s important.

[do or die]

Well, Bombers D has done its part, in suppressing overall league offense, this year......

 

 

 

[Geebrr]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

But the CFL has also made rule changes to increase scoring - yet scoring keeps decreasing. Lower than in the “glory days” where defences could do whatever the hell they wanted and concussions prevailed. 
 

This is an issue. Despite the fact that is hardcore fans, who talk on message boards in our free time and support the league no matter what, offence drives interest. Quarterbacks who dominate become the face of teams/leagues. It’s important.

 

The NFL gets to pick from the best QBs in the world and the majority of them are mediocre journeymen or worse. They have a bunch of young guys being thrown into the mix but have not really proven anything.

What do you suggest? 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Geebrr

[TrueBlue4ever]

On 2021-10-26 at 4:58 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

1991 could not find

1992-96 Mike Kelly (54-36, .600, 5 playoff appearances, 2 Grey Cup appearances, 3 seasons over .500)

1997-98 Joe Paopao (7-29, .194, 0 playoffs, 0 seasons over .500)

1999 Bill Stewart (6-12, .333, 0 playoffs)

2000 could not find  

2001 Rick Worman (14-4, .778, 1 Grey Cup appearance)

2002-03 Paul LaPolice (23-13, .639, 2 playoff appearances, 2 seasons over .500)

2004 Ron Lancaster Jr. (7-11, .389, 0 playoffs)

2005-06 Mike Gibson 14-22, .389, 1 playoff appearance, 0 seasons over .500)

2007-08 Kit Cartwright (18-17-1, .519, 2 playoff appearances, 1 Grey Cup appearance, 1 season over .500)

2009 Mike Kelly named a bunch of “special assistants” but had no OC (Andy Cox was running back coach and “offensive quality control” until he got sick and was replaced by Manny Matsakis, Richard Vinklarek was o-line coach and “running game co-ordinator” 7-11, .389, no playoffs)

2010-11 Jamie Barresi (14-22, .389, 1 playoff appearance, 1 Grey Cup appearance, 1 season over .500

2012-13 Gary Crowton (7-18, .280, 0 playoffs, 0 seasons over .500) 

2013-15 Marcel Bellefeuille (14-33, .298, 0 playoffs, 0 seasons over .500)

2016-19 Paul LaPolice (44-28, .611, 4 playoff appearances, 1 Grey Cup appearance, 1 Grey Cup win, 4 seasons over .500)

Kelly’s totals: 6 seasons, 61-47, .565, 5 playoff appearances, 2 Grey Cup appearances, 3 seasons over .500

LaPolice’s totals: 6 seasons, 67-41, .620, 6 playoff appearances, 1 Grey Cup appearance, 1 Grey Cup win, 6 seasons over .500)

Found the other two. 1991 was Pal Sartori and 2000 was co-coordinators Dickie Adams and Joe Perella. 

[Jesse]

9 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

 

The NFL gets to pick from the best QBs in the world and the majority of them are mediocre journeymen or worse. They have a bunch of young guys being thrown into the mix but have not really proven anything.

What do you suggest? 

It really seems like you’re getting defensive- like I’m trying to attack the league or something. So if I’m saying any of this poorly, please excuse me.

im just trying to discuss what I think to be an important issue. I certainly don’t have the answer to something that has plagued our league for years.

The NFL is a huge part of the problem. They’re recognizing that short athletic QBs can be effective. They’re expanding the practice rosters and allowing players to stay on them longer. In the time they’ve been doing that, we’ve seen less talent come North.

 

[Geebrr]

1 minute ago, Jesse said:

It really seems like you’re getting defensive- like I’m trying to attack the league or something. So if I’m saying any of this poorly, please excuse me.

im just trying to discuss what I think to be an important issue. I certainly don’t have the answer to something that has plagued our league for years.

The NFL is a huge part of the problem. They’re recognizing that short athletic QBs can be effective. They’re expanding the practice rosters and allowing players to stay on them longer. In the time they’ve been doing that, we’ve seen less talent come North.

 

I don't feel defensive I just don't know what can be done to make games more exciting  for people like yourself.

Particularly in comparison to the NFL having the best players available, pro offence rules,  and bores the **** out of me. 

Then again I prefer defence to offence. 

[Jesse]

13 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

I don't feel defensive I just don't know what can be done to make games more exciting  for people like yourself.

Particularly in comparison to the NFL having the best players available, pro offence rules,  and bores the **** out of me. 

Then again I prefer defence to offence. 

Ok, well, we just have a major philosophical difference, then

I feel that, for the vast majority of people, offence is king. Especially for the casual fan.

Somehow, someway. The cfl needs to improve their QB talent.

[17to85]

One of the reasons for defenses getting better in the cfl is the extra DI positions that have been added. It allows more rotations on defense to keep guys fresh and less of a dropoff for in game injuries. 

[Dr Zaius]

3 hours ago, Jesse said:

Yeah, the fact that Collaros is the unquestioned MVP and our offence is the top of the league is the problem. 

I love our team - but these should not be league leading numbers on the offensive side of the ball.

Garbage take 

If "these should not be league leading numbers" then why are they league leading numbers?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Dr Zaius

[Geebrr]

8 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Ok, well, we just have a major philosophical difference, then

I feel that, for the vast majority of people, offence is king. Especially for the casual fan.

Somehow, someway. The cfl needs to improve their QB talent.

You're right, most prefer offence.

I am not sure if it is a QB talent drop all on it's own or OCs being less innovative and creative. 

It could certainly be a combination of both.

DCs seem pretty solid across the league as well.

[Dr Zaius]

3 hours ago, Noeller said:

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out Jesse's post......I almost thought it was sarcastic and maybe I was missing the joke. I mean, we didn't start playing till August, right? Those numbers are lower than normal because we missed 1/3 of the season...

You didn't miss anything. It was just a stupid opinion.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

6 minutes ago, Dr Zaius said:

You didn't miss anything. It was just a stupid opinion.

Stupid how? He is raising a legit concern about the league's noticeable lack of offensive production. He's saying ,bar Collaros, pro rated for the shorten season... all teams offensesive production seem to be trending downward... and not just this year.

[Jesse]

32 minutes ago, Dr Zaius said:

Garbage take 

If "these should not be league leading numbers" then why are they league leading numbers?

Because offensive production across the league is way down….which is the issue we’re discussing….

[rebusrankin]

How much of an issue is no training camps?

I believe Dane Evans has shown he's a capable QB and he's 28. Jake Maier seems to have potential and he's 24. I don't think all is lost.

[CodyT]

2 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

How much of an issue is no training camps?

I believe Dane Evans has shown he's a capable QB and he's 28. Jake Maier seems to have potential and he's 24. I don't think all is lost.

Could be just a changing of the tide in the CFL, that being said, weve mostly been saying that since Ray/Burris/Calvillo hung them up. Jesse is right. The league doesnt have that " no lead is safe" vibe right now

[GCn20]

I think offence is trending down this year for the simple reason that at least 3 teams had their OLs completely decimated between 2019 and now and we are starting to see the impact of the NFL expanded PRs scooping up a lot of really good NAT OLinemen. Take a look at BC, Ottawa, Saskatchewan and you have 3 teams that are fielding completely subpar OLs, they you have Hamilton which has had a major drop in it's OL talent. The only teams with a good OL imo are Winnipeg, Calgary, and Toronto. All other teams are either poor or inconsistent and this is what you get. Honestly, I am shocked that more teams aren't going with 3 IMP OLs. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by GCn20

[wbbfan]

13 hours ago, Geebrr said:

But those numbers match up well against the last two QBs to win MOP and two of the best QBs of their era.

Why is it his fault he is playing way better than everyone else? 

I am not interested in what the NFL has done to make playing Defence borderline impossible.

I like defence. 

Remember a couple years ago when if a DB sneezed too hard in the general direction of a WR PI was called and nearly all the PI challenges were won by offensive teams?

I think the defensive / offensive parity is really good right now rule wise. If any thing you could see more offensive PI, and spearing on offensive players, not to mention a lot more holding calls on OL. 

The issue making offense lag this year is teams (out side of wpg) have failed to develop good OLs, and we are hitting an age wall with the previous block of good and great QBs. Its a transition period where in maybe just 2 years every qb who has been top tier or even good starter tier will be gone. The "next guys" like mbt, fajardo, vaj, and evans hit the sophomore wall HARD.  Some of them were getting away with smoke and mirrors and its been exposed. Some have battled health issues, others consistency. Next year we will see who if any are for real. But they also have the next wave of guys nipping at their heels. 

With how long the old guard was in the league, teams moved far away from balanced offenses. Every team is scratching and clawing at the same FA wrs every year, and hoping signing a single OL will fix their whole OL. Macadoo did a really good job in ssk giving fajardo a simple playbook he could execute. But other wise teams have failed to adapt their offenses to fit young QBs and groom them properly. 

The league cant come down on defenses and make it easier on the offense for the failings of teams to develop and run their offenses. 

[TBURGESS]

I think the CFL was hoping that Globals would be able to pick up the slack left by the NFL taking and keeping more players. Globals basically give each team an extra DI and they can play in US colleges before the CFL.

GCn20's right about the OL situation and that makes the QB situation look even worse. Give Reilly time and he's still got the goods to produce big offensive numbers. Teams still want to use the tried and true 'use your Canadians on the OL', but it isn't working any more. DL's are eating them alive, which leads to tons of short dump passes and very few deep balls. 3 Import OL's make sense, but then teams need to be able to find starting level NI's at other spots. I know this is unpopular but maybe the answer is 1 more starting import and 1 less starting Canadian.

No training camp and short work days can be fixed in the next contract and those changes should have a positive effect on the game. I hope the players association agrees.

If the CFL wants to get fans more attached to the teams, then it needs to reduce the amount of player turnover. The 1 year contracts are good for players who have a good year and get an NFL look. Bring back the NFL window and 2 year minimum contracts and have the teams hold the CFL rights to the player if they come back to the CFL and still have a year left on their contract.