CFL/XFL Exploring Alignment

[Colin Unger]

4 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

My preference is for the CFL to survive and thrive on it's own, a unique Canadian league. But, realistically, the CFL was in trouble before COVID, and now 😲

I'm not sure these discussions lead anywhere, but can you blame Ambrosie and the league for considering it? Considering everything? How long do you think Toronto, Montreal and BC can survive as CFL franchises? My son plays USports football in Montreal and I swear there is more buzz for the three RSEQ teams located in Montreal than the Alouettes. 

If it's a choice between no CFL and some hybrid CFL/XFL/international football league, with the Bombers still part of it, I'll take that option.

Maybe! I vote the Rock, who then has to fend off a hostile take over from Stephanie McMahon and Triple H. 

I kind of view Ambrosie as a new version of Preston Manning when he sought to unite the right. As soon as that process was completed he lost control over it. 

[wbbfan]

Just now, Colin Unger said:

With a larger league and a the potential for an american audience it opens up the potential for significant TV money from the states and they can also tap into things like Fantasy Football that is not really possibly with a 9 team league. Not to mention a video game based on the new league. Stuff like that would really become a possibility. 

I dont see much of a revenue stream coming from the us watching cfl games.  They dipped hard on the xfl 2.0, aafl, spring league, arena league etc. Hard core american football fans have the NFL, ncaa, and high school ball. They dont lack for content. The cfl is a fringe style for them too,  we arent that different for them from the arena league and their interest in foreign teams is extremely low. 

[M.Silverback]

5 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

With a larger league and a the potential for an american audience it opens up the potential for significant TV money from the states and they can also tap into things like Fantasy Football that is not really possibly with a 9 team league. Not to mention a video game based on the new league. Stuff like that would really become a possibility. 

I think there's all types of different options for revenue. Not sure if I read it here, or Twitter, but seems like CFL fans immediately get very defensive about the sanctity of the CFL game, status quo, but have zero solutions for the bottomless pit of revenue in our largest markets. Worse, I know some personally who never attend Bomber games (NFL fans) but want to preserve the CFL product! At least pony up for some season tickets if you're going to take that hard a stance.

Edited March 11, 2021 by M.Silverback

[wbbfan]

Just now, M.Silverback said:

I think there's all types of different options for revenue. Not sure if I read it here, or Twitter, but seems like CFL fans immediately get very defensive about the sanctity of the CFL game, status quo, but have zero solutions for the bottomless pit of revenue in our largest markets. Worse, I know some personally who never attend Bomber games (NFL fans) but want to preserve the CFL product! At least pony up for some season tickets if you're going to take that hard a stance.

Time for a save the CFL gofundme campaign. 

[M.Silverback]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Time for a save the CFL gofundme campaign. 

I'd contribute. But I think that's a one-off. Not sure that's a sustainable revenue model.

And government support ... given what the government has chosen to support, I would like to think the CFL would also be considered. But again, that's not a long term revenue model.

 

[Colin Unger]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I dont see much of a revenue stream coming from the us watching cfl games.  They dipped hard on the xfl 2.0, aafl, spring league, arena league etc. Hard core american football fans have the NFL, ncaa, and high school ball. They dont lack for content. The cfl is a fringe style for them too,  we arent that different for them from the arena league and their interest in foreign teams is extremely low. 

They wouldn't be watching CFL games persay.  I don't think they would call the new league the CFL...  There would be a CFL and an XFL division.   I think there is a market for more football in the states driven by more opportunity to engage in Fantasy Football, betting, and DFS. Unfortunately i think that we would lose some of our unique rules. I think the field would be somewhere between the size of the CFL and the NFL and we would lose the rouge. The field size due to some stadiums in the states (and in toronto) not being set up for it and the rouge because americans will never understand it. 

[Brandon]

2 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

With a larger league and a the potential for an american audience it opens up the potential for significant TV money from the states and they can also tap into things like Fantasy Football that is not really possibly with a 9 team league. Not to mention a video game based on the new league. Stuff like that would really become a possibility. 

Point A -  American Audience had very little interest in XFL 1.0,  Arena Football ,  AAFL or whatever that other league was called last year,  and less success with XFL 2.0 then they had with XFL 1.0

Point B - The NFL itself is losing popularity and college ball in the States will ALWAYS be way more popular then CFL.     Fantasy football is a pipe dream and never going to happen (see NFL/NCAA as reasons why).     I guess a TV contract is a possibility?   

Point C - Video game is meaningless for ownership and CFL will never have a AAA football game.  The CFL would get peanuts as a license fee from any developer  making a CFL game.  Like literally each time *might* get $25 000 if that.  

I just have HEAVY skepticism when 5 different attempts WITH great tv deals and super rich owners have failed in the states and now I'm suppose to believe that magically the Rock will make this 6th attempt work?   I've heard all these fluff lines before "We have unique thinking,  we have billionaire owners,  we have great football minds" and they ALL have falled flat with just minimal amounts of successes in certain cities.   

Merging with the XFL I think will turn the CFL into something similar to the Goldeyes situation where every year teams join and leave the league and you have zero idea who the hell or what the hell the teams are. With the constant changes it will IMO diminish interest from the hardcore fans and you'll end up with stadiums partially full of fairweather fans paying $10 dollars a ticket to merely enjoy a nice night out of the house.   

To me this seems like the quick fix lazy way out from Ambrosie.  

 

 

[wbbfan]

Just now, M.Silverback said:

I'd contribute. But I think that's a one-off. Not sure that's a sustainable revenue model.

And government support ... given what the government has chosen to support, I would like to think the CFL would also be considered. But again, that's not a long term revenue model.

 

I feel like the long term should be sustainable with the tv deal growing each time, we just cant afford to carry a dud franchise or twos expenses. 

Just now, Colin Unger said:

They wouldn't be watching CFL games persay.  I don't think they would call the new league the CFL...  There would be a CFL and an XFL division.   I think there is a market for more football in the states driven by more opportunity to engage in Fantasy Football, betting, and DFS. Unfortunately i think that we would lose some of our unique rules. I think the field would be somewhere between the size of the CFL and the NFL and we would lose the rouge. The field size due to some stadiums in the states (and in toronto) not being set up for it and the rouge because americans will never understand it. 

But the xfl will have none of its own games in 2021 or 2022. And we'd be getting money right away. So they would certainly need to have us playing games in their markets.  And having it be 2 divisions like the afc nfc merger that made the NFL would mean we'd have to play each other at some point. Are they gonna play under our rules? are we gonna sell our game out? would the cfl survive selling out our style? I dont think so. 

[Brandon]

8 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

They wouldn't be watching CFL games persay.  I don't think they would call the new league the CFL...  There would be a CFL and an XFL division.   I think there is a market for more football in the states driven by more opportunity to engage in Fantasy Football, betting, and DFS. Unfortunately i think that we would lose some of our unique rules. I think the field would be somewhere between the size of the CFL and the NFL and we would lose the rouge. The field size due to some stadiums in the states (and in toronto) not being set up for it and the rouge because americans will never understand it. 

Based on what?   Interest in football is on the decline (and the demographics are aging)  with NBA grabbing a lot of the young audience.   

[Noeller]

I've seen a lot of protetionist arguments about saving the rouge, but man...... of all the truly Canadian elements of our game....the rouge is one of the least important, to me. Keep the field size, keep the same number of players on the field, keep the downs, and keep the Canadian players. That's the non-negotiables for me.

[Colin Unger]

 

27 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Based on what?   Interest in football is on the decline (and the demographics are aging)  with NBA grabbing a lot of the young audience.   

Interest in football is still very high in the United States. Sure the pandemic and the BLM stuff has impacted the TV audience to a degree.  Football will always be the number one sport in America. Basketball seems to come and go. It was supposed to take everything over back in the 90's with Micheal Jordan and then went into a bit of a bear market after that for a long time.  Maybe it's on the rise again. Don't pay much attention to a sport where only 1 or 2 teams at a time have any chance of winning. 

[Colin Unger]

One of the key questions that needs to be asked is what happens with the CFL teams if this league goes under.  Do CFL teams end up carrying the burden of potential unpaid bills?

[Brandon]

18 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

 

Interest in football is still very high in the United States. Sure the pandemic and the BLM stuff has impacted the TV audience to a degree.  Football will always be the number one sport in America. Basketball seems to come and go. It was supposed to take everything over back in the 90's with Micheal Jordan and then went into a bit of a bear market after that for a long time.  Maybe it's on the rise again. Don't pay much attention to a sport where only 1 or 2 teams at a time have any chance of winning. 

Football interest was dropping before the pandemic and BLM.  BLM doesn't even really impact the general audience of NFL (which is primarily older white men).     Basketball is really hot with the youth and the key demos.      NFL is still ridiculously popular and still makes insane cash,  but overall interest in football is definitely down as a whole.  Just look at how mediocre the reception was for the AAFL/XFL and how Arena football went under.   

[Colin Unger]

22 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Football interest was dropping before the pandemic and BLM.  BLM doesn't even really impact the general audience of NFL (which is primarily older white men).     Basketball is really hot with the youth and the key demos.      NFL is still ridiculously popular and still makes insane cash,  but overall interest in football is definitely down as a whole.  Just look at how mediocre the reception was for the AAFL/XFL and how Arena football went under.   

When the NFL started to promote BLM this lots them some of those older white viewers.   The things is that basketball always has the young demographic. They had it 30 years ago too.  But eventually people grow out of it. 

[Noeller]

some interesting comments from Bob Young...

https://3downnation.com/2021/03/11/ticats-caretaker-bob-young-has-strong-opinions-loosely-held-on-xfl-talks-intrigued-by-prospect-of-international-championship/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=ticats-caretaker-bob-young-has-strong-opinions-loosely-held-on-xfl-talks-intrigued-by-prospect-of-international-championship

“You both have to respect and honor your traditions — you have to bring your loyal fans along with you on your adventure — but you equally have to move forward,” he said, noting the Stanley Cup was once a national prize before becoming a national symbol for hockey supremacy.

“I was watching on Twitter and [fans] were saying ‘Canadian football has been around for a hundred years and if they change any of the rules, I’m going to refuse to watch’. I go, hold on, a hundred years ago you were not allowed to pass the ball forward,” Young continued.

“Our rules do keep changing and as long as they change for the better our fans will follow us. If they change for the worse, they won’t follow us. That’s our responsibility, to figure that one out and take our fans on a journey that they’re excited about.”

[Colin Unger]

5 minutes ago, Noeller said:

some interesting comments from Bob Young...

https://3downnation.com/2021/03/11/ticats-caretaker-bob-young-has-strong-opinions-loosely-held-on-xfl-talks-intrigued-by-prospect-of-international-championship/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=ticats-caretaker-bob-young-has-strong-opinions-loosely-held-on-xfl-talks-intrigued-by-prospect-of-international-championship

The more i keep reading statement the more I'm convinced that this is really happening. 

[Noeller]

I will say this: I'm less angry/upset/depressed about this situation than I was yesterday. Just let me have some Winnipeg Blue Bombers football, whatever that looks like, and get back to some semblance of normal

[SpeedFlex27]

Well, so many people on social media seem against this but my question is, where were they in the stands in 2019 & the years before? That is a general question not limited to or directed at people here because most are fans who go to games. 

6 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I will say this: I'm less angry/upset/depressed about this situation than I was yesterday. Just let me have some Winnipeg Blue Bombers football, whatever that looks like, and get back to some semblance of normal

Same. I won't die on a hill defending Canadian rules & players if it means the team folds. 

[Noeller]

Bob Young's comments about "100 years ago, the Stanley Cup was a Canadian trophy, and 100 years ago you couldn't move the ball forward with a pass" really got to me.... as lame as it might sound, I've really had to do a lot of soul-searching about what it is about the Bombers and CFL that I support. What is it that makes me a superfan? As SF alluded to, what hill am I willing to die on to maintain the old ways, if the old ways mean no more Bombers ever....? 

[TBURGESS]

IF this is an 'expansion' then the ratio will have to go, just like it did during the US expansion all those years ago. The US labour laws won't accept X number of foreigners. Canadian teams with ratio rules would be at a huge disadvantage, so the ratio would have to go in Canada too.

Field size isn't as big a deal to me as it is to many others. If the US stadiums can't fit a CFL sized field, then that would be something I'd be willing to give up to save the CFL. I wouldn't even care if different fields were different sizes. Basically, as close to the CFL size as possible and I'm happy.

What I don't want to give up is the 3 downs for 10 yards, the 2 point conversions, the 'halo' instead of the 'wave the arms, don't hit me', the Kick Off rules, etc. Those are the things that make the CFL different and special to me.

[TrueBlue4ever]

If people are ready to die on the hill of “if it isn’t 3 downs and 11 players and rouges I am gone forever” then where is the massive support for University football, especially out west? I remember in my younger more insolent days swearing that after the NHL player’s strike in 1995 that I would never watch hockey again because of those greedy players and owners taking us precious fans for granted. That sanctimonious outrage lasted 1 game. Ditto when the Jets left. I did better avoiding baseball after the Expos got screwed in 94, but I did not quit. Fans won’t walk away if the alternative to new rules is no game at all. And the owners and players know it. They have always known it. 

[Colin Unger]

6 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

IF this is an 'expansion' then the ratio will have to go, just like it did during the US expansion all those years ago. The US labour laws won't accept X number of foreigners. Canadian teams with ratio rules would be at a huge disadvantage, so the ratio would have to go in Canada too.

Field size isn't as big a deal to me as it is to many others. If the US stadiums can't fit a CFL sized field, then that would be something I'd be willing to give up to save the CFL. I wouldn't even care if different fields were different sizes. Basically, as close to the CFL size as possible and I'm happy.

What I don't want to give up is the 3 downs for 10 yards, the 2 point conversions, the 'halo' instead of the 'wave the arms, don't hit me', the Kick Off rules, etc. Those are the things that make the CFL different and special to me.

It can work  the NFL already grants teams an extra practice roster spot if it is an international player.  

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/eleven-international-players-to-compete-for-spot-in-2021-nfl-international-playe

[SpeedFlex27]

22 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If people are ready to die on the hill of “if it isn’t 3 downs and 11 players and rouges I am gone forever” then where is the massive support for University football, especially out west? I remember in my younger more insolent days swearing that after the NHL player’s strike in 1995 that I would never watch hockey again because of those greedy players and owners taking us precious fans for granted. That sanctimonious outrage lasted 1 game. Ditto when the Jets left. I did better avoiding baseball after the Expos got screwed in 94, but I did not quit. Fans won’t walk away if the alternative to new rules is no game at all. And the owners and players know it. They have always known it. 

I can honestly say that when the Jets left Winnipeg in 1996, I stopped watching hockey. Totally & completely. I was angry & carried that anger for years after. I never switched allegiance to the Flames. In those 15 years I never watched one NHL game from start to finish. I didn't give a ****. And the Coyotes could go screw themselves. When the Jets came back in 2011, I started watching & caring again.

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I can honestly say that when the Jets left Winnipeg in 1996, I stopped watching hockey. Totally & completely. I was angry & carried that anger for years after. I never switched allegiance to the Flames. In those 15 years I never watched one NHL game from start to finish. I didn't give a ****. And the Coyotes could go screw themselves. When the Jets came back in 2011, I started watching & caring again.

No Olympics? No Moose?

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I can honestly say that when the Jets left Winnipeg in 1996, I stopped watching hockey. Totally & completely. I was angry & carried that anger for years after. I never switched allegiance to the Flames. In those 15 years I never watched one NHL game from start to finish. I didn't give a ****. And the Coyotes could go screw themselves. When the Jets came back in 2011, I started watching & caring again.

I followed the moose through the IHL years and WJ each year but since the AHL merger its been the end of it all for me.