CFL/XFL Exploring Alignment

[17to85]

Ambrosie had 2 plays this whole pandemic  beg the federal government for money with no plan, or try and sell out to a league that doesn't exist. 

What great leadership.

[wbbfan]

34 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Ambrosie had 2 plays this whole pandemic  beg the federal government for money with no plan, or try and sell out to a league that doesn't exist. 

What great leadership.

Yep. People are trying to give him a pass because the pandemic isnt his fault. which of course it isnt. But how the league has dealt with business during the pandemic has been awful. From the utter lack of communication with the PA, to the poorly thought out and worse executed attempt to get federal funding (which shouldve been a slam dunk) to the nothing burger of an announcement that the XFL and the CFL were going to work together. 

 No matter what side of any issue you fall on as a CFL fan I think you have to want these things to be open and transparent once announced. To pop out this vague news and then go dark only serves as a disservice for the league.  The fan base is more divided now then ive ever seen it. Fans dont feel secure in the time, interest and money we invest into the league. 

The longer this un certainty draws out the worse it gets. People were scared of losing canadian football at the out set of this. That wave is starting to die down now. The next step is people fleeding fandom for apathy. The next step and announcements must be very carefully thought out and planned. If they dont shake this negativity, seeping in apathy, and distrust it wont matter what moves are made with financing or the XFL. 

[Brandon]

I still don't understand why they couldn't get some sort of deal with the Government... felt like they didn't even make a proper effort.

[Colin Unger]

According the Arash Madani the Government is currently in discussion with the CFL over some sort of financing. 

Im not sure exactly what is supposed to be communicated to the CFLPA. Typically once the owners have something to present the players association they do.  But i haven't heard of a situation where owners have brought in the PA for every pitch the make to the bank or some rich guy in order to secure finances required to run a season in any sports league. 

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

According the Arash Madani the Government is currently in discussion with the CFL over some sort of financing. 

Im not sure exactly what is supposed to be communicated to the CFLPA. Typically once the owners have something to present the players association they do.  But i haven't heard of a situation where owners have brought in the PA for every pitch the make to the bank or some rich guy in order to secure finances required to run a season in any sports league. 

In terms of the XFL thing they shoudlve talked to the PA reps and told them they were going to meet with them and given them an idea of what they would be looking at. Rather than letting them find out the same way we did. Nothing about that is normal for a PA. 

 

11 hours ago, Brandon said:

I still don't understand why they couldn't get some sort of deal with the Government... felt like they didn't even make a proper effort.

The feds dont really care about the cfl, they care a limited amount about how people perceive them with their actions in respect to the cfl issue.  The CFL drastically over played their hand trying to strong arm their deal rather than negotiate some thing. 

[SpeedFlex27]

I was telling you guys last fall that one of my facebook friends is a Liberal MP from down east in Southern Ontario. He was heavily connected at one time with one of the CFL teams down there. He told me in a private discussion we had that he approached Ambrosie offering to help him with his presentation to the government committee. He offered to give him advice on the things he needed to do when making his presentation. As to what Committee would want from the CFL & questions they would be asking. He said Ambrosie wasn't interested in his help & blew him off. We saw the outcome & it was a disaster.

[TrueBlue4ever]

36 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I was telling you guys last fall that one of my facebook friends is a Liberal MP from down east in Southern Ontario. He was heavily connected at one time with one of the CFL teams down there. He told me in a private discussion we had that he approached Ambrosie offering to help him with his presentation to the government committee. He offered to give him advice on the things he needed to do when making his presentation. As to what Committee would want from the CFL & questions they would be asking. He said Ambrosie wasn't interested in his help & blew him off. We saw the outcome & it was a disaster.

An absolute gaffe on Ambrosie’s part there, no doubt. Politicians are not in the habit of propping up pro sports leagues anyways, or in giving free advice rather than playing the “I’ll help you but here is want I want in return” game at all times, and I sense the private owners had zero desire to open their books to the Government as was requested and gave Randy his marching orders to in no way do that (we live in the rarified air here in Winnipeg of having a publicly owned team that has to show its financial statement every year), but all that said Ambrosie needed to play the political game and at least give the appearance of schmoozing and gladly accepting advice to get onside with Ottawa since he was coming hat in hand. I wonder how much of his measured responses to things now is in part based on his public failure and the leaked info in that instance?

[JCon]

1 minute ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

An absolute gaffe on Ambrosie’s part there, no doubt. Politicians are not in the habit of propping up pro sports leagues anyways, or in giving free advice rather than playing the “I’ll help you but here is want I want in return” game at all times, and I sense the private owners had zero desire to open their books to the Government as was requested and gave Randy his marching orders to in no way do that (we live in the rarified air here in Winnipeg of having a publicly owned team that has to show its financial statement every year), but all that said Ambrosie needed to play the political game and at least give the appearance of schmoozing and gladly accepting advice to get onside with Ottawa since he was coming hat in hand. I wonder how much of his measured responses to things now is in part based on his public failure and the leaked info in that instance?

It's less that and more of: if you're coming for help from the gov't, you better have a freakin' plan. There is no way, at the best of times, that gov't has the capacity to build a plan for you, never mind during the biggest global crisis in almost 80 years, if you want gov't assistance. You need a plan that makes sense. 

They will pick it apart, no doubt, but start with that and you work from there. 

That's what they told them at the time. 

The only way that is reversed is when gov't has an idea and they reach out to an organization or business to get it done. Like with that youth employment ****ing disaster from last spring that the Liberals just messed up everywhere on. Then you get the gov't analysts working on a plan for you. And, from experience, it's probably not going to be a good one because gov't is deciding what you need based on what they want. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Morneau's resignation & the We scandal contributed greatly to the decision that the CFL shouldn't get any money. Ambrosie was behind the 8 ball to begin with because of the circumstances but to turn away help from a member of the government was just stupid & arrogant. 

[JCon]

8 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Morneau's resignation & the We scandal contributed greatly to the decision that the CFL shouldn't get any money. Ambrosie was behind the 8 ball to begin with because of the circumstances but to turn away help from a member of the government was just stupid & arrogant. 

The Liberals don't care about the CFL. They just don't but they do care about things like heritage that makes them sound good and caring. No one wants to be the gov't that helped take down the CFL, even if they don't care. It's bad, bad optics. That's why, if you can come with a plan, they'll probably accept it. Eventually, the plan won't work out and the gov't will need to write off the debt. But, for now, we would have football. 

 

Another problem we have is that they don't like to support professional sports. Getting money out of the Feds for sports that are recreational or professional is very, very challenging. Stuff like Canada Summer Games, which has a funding formula, is pretty easy, relative to the pros. There's not really a department for it. 

They'll support the Canada Games but not the World Police and Fire Games. 

And, yes, I know that there are lots of examples of where the Feds have ponied up money for the pros but, unless, Quebec suddenly falls in love with the CFL or they make a darn good pitch, don't expect Fed money. 

[Colin Unger]

Maybe the XFL thing is all just a ploy to get money from the government.  Canadian Ametuer football is scared of the merger.  Maybe now the government will step in and help the CFL for the sake of amateur sports in Canada. 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

Maybe the XFL thing is all just a ploy to get money from the government.  Canadian Ametuer football is scared of the merger.  Maybe now the government will step in and help the CFL for the sake of amateur sports in Canada. 

Football participation is down in this country significantly. Here in Calgary, atom, bantam & pee wee associations have folded. There used to be junior varsity teams in HS here for the Grade 10's to play, That Division was discontinued in 2019 because of a lack of players. Now instead of 2 teams in each school there is just one. The problem is more than just the proposed XFL merger. 

[Colin Unger]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Football participation is down in this country significantly. Here in Calgary, atom, bantam & pee wee associations have folded. There used to be junior varsity teams in HS here for the Grade 10's to play, That Division was discontinued in 2019 because of a lack of players. Now instead of 2 teams in each school there is just one. The problem is more than just the proposed XFL merger. 

Yeah.  So whatever we do we should not cause the whole thing to collapse by getting rid of the ratio. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

On 2021-04-11 at 5:30 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

So I read a piece last week that talked about trying to get Drake to invest in the CFL as the Canadian version of The Rock with the same Twitter presence. Said his connection with MLSE made it viable. Strange article, but the one line that really stood out was “MLSE is very much pro-XFL merger and expansion into the US.” And today Bob Irving tweeted this:

Irving has been having a regular Twitter war with David Naylor, who is constantly writing about how this merger needs to happen to save the league, and comes across as pretty bullish on the idea (as does Farhan Lalji). Irving and Naylor snipe about the history of the league and the supposed reality of the modern-day economics of the CFL. All this to ask a few questions:

Does the Toronto media have an agenda in seeing this XFL merger happen? Is the the CFL catering to Toronto’s owners by exploring this, and should they be, especially given how little MLSE invests in promoting the Argos? Bottom line, can the CFL survive without Toronto and does any belief That they cannot influence their current actions?

So I threw out some questions a short while ago on MLSE’s possible intentions and if the Toronto media had any play in this. Following up, here is a snippet from the Rod Paterson podcast and some Twitter responses:

Any thoughts on this from anyone?

Edited April 14, 2021 by TrueBlue4ever

[66 Chevelle]

9 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

So I threw out some questions a short while ago on MLSE’s possible intentions and if the Toronto media had any play in this. Following up, here is a snippet from the Rod Paterson podcast and some Twitter responses:

Amy thoughts on this from anyone?

it's sad that the entity that holds the exclusive rights to televise the CFL can't find value in promoting the product... if they are claiming that the current numbers don't support inclusion then not including them will do nothing to grow those numbers... it's like they've given up...  on the other hand, maybe it speaks to their confidence in there being a 2021 season... either way it's disappointing...

[JCon]

TSN pulled the first add and replaced Brady with an Argo. Embarrassing for the CFL that we're entirely in their hands. 

[HardCoreBlue]

Knowing it has differences and complexities, it's continuing to be very frustrating watching most if not all all of the over pro sport leagues play but not the CFL.

[Bigblue204]

2 hours ago, JCon said:

TSN pulled the first add and replaced Brady with an Argo. Embarrassing for the CFL that we're entirely in their hands. 

I've been saying it for years. TSN does the CFL no favours, and often hurts the product more then it helps.

[camper_2]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

I've been saying it for years. TSN does the CFL no favours, and often hurts the product more then it helps.

I'm going to call it as I have seen it for years.

TSN, really only cares about presenting its material to the Toronto market, the rest of the country is a secondary thought. We all saw it the other day (Trade Centre Toronto) about those flipping Leafs... Case in point, when the damn Leafs play in the west everyone has to adjust to prime time Toronto. This also holds true for Canada's network as well, in this situation.

We all know, Toronto (Big Smoke) dreamer market wants 4 down football. The Bills played there and that was really successful.  Yep, perhaps Naylor should report on that venture. They want a new stadium for the Jays, think about that for a bit.. Yesterdays thing was put on for a reason. The current ownership (Argos front and centre), in my opinion is behind a move to have that 4 down brand football. 

Final comment, some of these reporter(s) as well, just don't do a service either to the CFL (wasn't it one of them, during last years draft) who had NFL material in their book case, while providing insightful reporting on up and coming Canadian talent.  Nice way of promoting the game, EH!!!

 

[JCon]

Toronto will never get an NFL team. You would need an individual with a crazy, crazy amount of money. $5B for a franchise and $2B for a stadium. 

 

The Bills "experiment" was a disaster. But, the Bills achieved what they wanted, which was to secure the Golden Horseshoe as their territory. 

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Toronto will never get an NFL team. You would need an individual with a crazy, crazy amount of money. $5B for a franchise and $2B for a stadium. 

 

The Bills "experiment" was a disaster. But, the Bills achieved what they wanted, which was to secure the Golden Horseshoe as their territory. 

I think the only way it happens is if its a franchise relocation, that involves multiple owners including rogers. And rogers then building a new venue for the jays that is also a NFL quality football stadium. Which I would say is less than 1% chance of happening. 

4 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I've been saying it for years. TSN does the CFL no favours, and often hurts the product more then it helps.

TSN has barely improved since the days of sportsnet showing cfl games. The camera work back then was atrocious. Which is the only area we have seen improvement in.  I wish sportsnet or the score would dive into cfl coverage and do it well. 

[JCon]

Just now, wbbfan said:

I think the only way it happens is if its a franchise relocation, that involves multiple owners including rogers. And rogers then building a new venue for the jays that is also a NFL quality football stadium. Which I would say is less than 1% chance of happening. 

TSN has barely improved since the days of sportsnet showing cfl games. The camera work back then was atrocious. Which is the only area we have seen improvement in.  I wish sportsnet or the score would dive into cfl coverage and do it well. 

NFL does not allow corporate ownership, only individuals. 

[wbbfan]

Just now, JCon said:

NFL does not allow corporate ownership, only individuals. 

Then TO can suck an egg. Tbh an owner isnt their biggest issue any way. Its fans. The NFL isnt going to go some place to be the 2nd or worse team.  And they wouldnt have a chance to pass the raptors for atleast 10 years. 

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2021-04-13 at 7:29 AM, Colin Unger said:

Yeah.  So whatever we do we should not cause the whole thing to collapse by getting rid of the ratio. 

Dude, I'm just telling you what's going on because you like to run off on tangents. Football participation is down everywhere. The CFL is freaking broke. Trudeau turned them down again for a loan. 

14 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I've been saying it for years. TSN does the CFL no favours, and often hurts the product more then it helps.

And every game is on TSN instead of trying to get competitive by having others bid. The way the CFL conducts business is ridiculous. TSN artificially keeps the price of the tv deal low as they are the only bidder. That way Bell can make more profit off of football to the detriment of the league. The CFL knows it & still does it anyway. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[TBURGESS]

8 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Dude, I'm just telling you what's going on because you like to run off on tangents. Football participation is down everywhere. The CFL is freaking broke. Trudeau turned them down again for a loan. 

And every game is on TSN instead of trying to get competitive by having others bid. The way the CFL conducts business is ridiculous. TSN artificially keeps the price of the tv deal low as they are the only bidder. That way Bell can make more profit off of football to the detriment of the league. The CFL knows it & still does it anyway. 

You're right about participation, but you're wrong about TSN keeping the price artificially low. Other networks would out bid them if they thought the price was low. TSN pays the going rate for the CFL, maybe a bit more to keep the competition out.