CFL/XFL Exploring Alignment

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

No, get your vax shot... Stay healthy.

Ya I will. but its more for the immuno compromised ppl i take care of. 

 

I feel like if we dont hear serious news on the xfl merger in the next couple weeks, that this will turn into the biggest cfl nothing burger in ages. So far the comments following the announcement have been empty pleasantries. 

[wbbfan]

I looked around a bit an an/the XFL forum. https://xflboard.com/xfl-board/viewforum.php?f=1

Mostly what i expected. Would need some really hard concessions from one or both sides. 

The big thing I see is that the xfl fans seem to think they have leverage. The aaf had twice as much money available as the xfl was bought for and still failed miserably. They dont have any thing other than a bill of sale. They have no teams, coaches, players, infrastructure, management etc. They have a bill of sale, and a history of failure to make it more then 1 season. With out the talks with the CFL the XFL would have no pulse at all. With out the XFL, well you can always find backers, investors, and gov't money. 

I do not see us conceding field width, end zone depth, or 3 downs. The xfl simply doesnt have the value to discuss those points. 

[SpeedFlex27]

31 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Ya I will. but its more for the immuno compromised ppl i take care of. 

 

I feel like if we dont hear serious news on the xfl merger in the next couple weeks, that this will turn into the biggest cfl nothing burger in ages. So far the comments following the announcement have been empty pleasantries. 

Well, I'm loading up on my Ambrosie criticisms... Lol

22 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I looked around a bit an an/the XFL forum. https://xflboard.com/xfl-board/viewforum.php?f=1

Mostly what i expected. Would need some really hard concessions from one or both sides. 

The big thing I see is that the xfl fans seem to think they have leverage. The aaf had twice as much money available as the xfl was bought for and still failed miserably. They dont have any thing other than a bill of sale. They have no teams, coaches, players, infrastructure, management etc. They have a bill of sale, and a history of failure to make it more then 1 season. With out the talks with the CFL the XFL would have no pulse at all. With out the XFL, well you can always find backers, investors, and gov't money. 

I do not see us conceding field width, end zone depth, or 3 downs. The xfl simply doesnt have the value to discuss those points. 

The problem are stadiums in the US. None of them fit a CFL field. Who wants a 110 yard field & 10 yard  end zones? 

[TBURGESS]

37 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The problem are stadiums in the US. None of them fit a CFL field. Who wants a 110 yard field & 10 yard  end zones? 

If that's what it takes to save the CFL, then I do.

[CodyT]

I still think this is a terrible idea all around. For reasons you all already know.

I don't want to be an American league and I don't want to gamble on it working. Been a die hard since I was a little kid, I'd rather see the CFL die gracefully than have a bunch of Americans ruin it 

 

**** this idea 

[TrueBlue4ever]

48 minutes ago, CodyT said:

I still think this is a terrible idea all around. For reasons you all already know.

I don't want to be an American league and I don't want to gamble on it working. Been a die hard since I was a little kid, I'd rather see the CFL die gracefully than have a bunch of Americans ruin it 

 

**** this idea 

I’m surprised that last season and this off season we had so many screaming about the lost season and saying “whatever it takes, just get football back” and now people are willing to just walk away from watching based on the mere potential of altered rules (nothing set in stone yet) or the preference of letting the CFL die forever. 

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Well, I'm loading up on my Ambrosie criticisms... Lol

The problem are stadiums in the US. None of them fit a CFL field. Who wants a 110 yard field & 10 yard  end zones? 

I could handle 100 yards field but keep the end zones at 20 yards. Also keep the field width, the yard off the line on the snap, the goalpost on the goal line and not the end line, and especially unlimited motion. And if those rules stay, then 3 downs makes more sense as 4 downs would make it too tough on defences to get off the field. Plus it promotes more passing rather than run 3 yards, repeat, repeat down the field like the NFL at times. 
And for God’s sake, don’t you dare bring in a fair catch rule. Keep the 5 yard halo. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by TrueBlue4ever

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Well, I'm loading up on my Ambrosie criticisms... Lol

The problem are stadiums in the US. None of them fit a CFL field. Who wants a 110 yard field & 10 yard  end zones? 

I would do it like NL and AL in baseball. The NL with pitchers hitting the AL with the DH, different venues have different size and shape fields etc. 

Have a limited series of 2 weeks of inter league play. Each team plays 1 home game and 1 away game. Home team rules play. Each league has a championship and the 2 champions play a unified championship game. You play the  interleague games before the LDC. Maybe 1 interleague week after week 1 and 1 a couple weeks later. Or they could be back to back. 

Maybe you share a few basic rules. Like no fair catch, XP converts etc. But let each brand have their own thing.  I believe the northern league used to do some thing like this. So the winner of the northern league would play the championship from another indy baseball league. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by wbbfan

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

I would do it like NL and AL in baseball. The NL with pitchers hitting the AL with the DH, different venues have different size and shape fields etc. 

Have a limited series of 2 weeks of inter league play. Each team plays 1 home game and 1 away game. Home team rules play. Each league has a championship and the 2 champions play a unified championship game. You play the  interleague games before the LDC. Maybe 1 interleague week after week 1 and 1 a couple weeks later. Or they could be back to back. 

Maybe you share a few basic rules. Like no fair catch, XP converts etc. But let each brand have their own thing.  I believe the northern league used to do some thing like this. So the winner of the northern league would play the championship from another indy baseball league. 

But what are the rules for the championship game?  It’s not like baseball with a 7 game series and one fundamental rule difference (DH). But I like the idea of an inter league title game. Call it the Global Bowl, then the winner can call themselves World Champions, which would piss off the American “world champion” Super Bowl winners. 
 

[JCon]

What everyone is forgetting is the timing of these leagues. XFL starts after the super bowl and ends a few weeks later when they run out of money (or spring). 

It's most likely that they are working on a player sharing agreement and sharing of marketing and development. 

[wbbfan]

Just now, TrueBlue4ever said:

But what are the rules for the championship game?  It’s not like baseball with a 7 game series and one fundamental rule difference (DH). But I like the idea of an inter league title game. Call it the Global Bowl, then the winner can call themselves World Champions, which would piss off the American “world champion” Super Bowl winners. 
 

Either you have 1 perma set of rules for the ship game, you have an all star game and winning side gets their rules, or you alternate rules each year.  Say year 1 its held in canada under CFL rules, year 2 its in the US under XFL rules. With maybe the current champs having it as an extra home game. 

Baseball does let teams have all kinds of whacky fields though. Oakland has a massive space out side the foul lines which drastically changes the game, some fields have ramps at the out field leading to the wall, some have massive freaking walls on one side and tiny ones on the other etc. IIRC at the end of babe ruths career kansas city? had some monstrous field they claimed to be impossible to hit a hr to dead center. Some thing like 450 feet. 

Personally I like alternating year to year as an option. 

Just now, JCon said:

What everyone is forgetting is the timing of these leagues. XFL starts after the super bowl and ends a few weeks later when they run out of money (or spring). 

It's most likely that they are working on a player sharing agreement and sharing of marketing and development. 

It was but the XFL doesnt have much of any thing set in stone rn. 

[CodyT]

6 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I’m surprised that last season and this off season we had so many screaming about the lost season and saying “whatever it takes, just get football back” and now people are willing to just walk away from watching based on the mere potential of altered rules (nothing set in stone yet) or the preference of letting the CFL die forever. 

I could handle 100 yards field but keep the end zones at 20 yards. Also keep the field width, the yard off the line on the snap, the goalpost on the goal line and not the end line, and especially unlimited motion. And if those rules stay, then 3 downs makes more sense as 4 downs would make it too tough on defences to get off the field. Plus it promotes more passing rather than run 3 yards, repeat, repeat down the field like the NFL at times. 
And for God’s sake, don’t you dare bring in a fair catch rule. Keep the 5 yard halo. 

False. Whatever it takes never said "let's take our league and TRY (emphasis on try) to make it an NFL farm league.

I get that the xfl is under new ownership and there's potential there.  But I've spent my LIFE cheering on the blue bombers and rooting on the Canadian games success. 

If it were a sure bet I'd made concessions. But if I'm going to lose my life time of memories and culture to be more "american", well that's a hill I can die on.

 

Noeller said it best, In the cfl our team is built on pros. Selling out our tradition for "the rock" to use his social media platform. No way. 

 

I love the CFL and quarks that come with it. It's not perfect but it's mine. Not willing to compromise 100 years of passion and dedication to build our own game just to sell out for money.  I know we as Canadians and more importantly CFL fans have more pride than that. 

 

The day this becomes a 4 down league becomes the day i pick an NFL team. It's unique and special to us. Find another way or tap out 

Edited March 14, 2021 by CodyT

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, CodyT said:

False. Whatever it takes never said "let's take our league and TRY (emphasis on try) to make it an NFL farm league.

I get that the xfl is under new ownership and there's potential there.  But I've spent my LIFE cheering on the blue bombers and rooting on the Canadian games success. 

If it were a sure bet I'd made concessions. But if I'm going to lose my life time of memories and culture to be more "american", well that's a hill I can die on.

 

Noeller said it best, In the cfl our team is built on pros. Selling out our tradition for "the rock" to use his social media platform. No way. 

 

I love the CFL and quarks that come with it. It's not perfect but it's mine. Not willing to compromise 100 years of passion and dedication to build our own game just to sell out for money.  I know we as Canadians and more importantly CFL fans have more pride than that. 

 

The day this becomes a 4 down league becomes the day i pick an NFL team. It's unique and special to us. Find another way or tap out 

Sorry. I don't want the the Bombers to tap out. Maybe you want the league to die "gracefully" (whatever that means) but I don't. No one or thing ever dies gracefully. Unless you are an actor & do a death scene in a motion picture. The death of the Bombers will be sad. It will be messy. There will anger. There will be tears. There will be recrimination. There will be finger pointing looking for someone to blame. People will be upset. It won't be graceful. If you remember the Jets leaving town in 1996 just amplify that 10 or 20 times. Professional football in Winnipeg will be gone forever. I don't think people want that. I think Bomber fans will follow their team to wherever it goes. 

[CodyT]

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Sorry. I don't want the the Bombers to tap out. Maybe you want the league to die "gracefully" (whatever that means) but I don't. No one or thing ever dies gracefully. Unless you are an actor & do a death scene in a motion picture. The death of the Bombers will be sad. It will be messy. There will anger. There will be tears. There will be recrimination. There will be finger pointing looking for someone to blame. People will be upset. It won't be graceful. If you remember the Jets leaving town in 1996 just amplify that 10 or 20 times. Professional football in Winnipeg will be gone forever. I don't think people want that. I think Bomber fans will follow their team to wherever it goes. 

Yeah I drank a **** ton of whiskey last night and was trying to be profound.  Leave me alone 

[Colin Unger]

You have to wonder if they would consider bringing back the Baltimore Stallions.  With the CFL being involved I think you'd have a better chance in that market then most other markets. 

[Colin Unger]

15 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I looked around a bit an an/the XFL forum. https://xflboard.com/xfl-board/viewforum.php?f=1

Mostly what i expected. Would need some really hard concessions from one or both sides. 

The big thing I see is that the xfl fans seem to think they have leverage. The aaf had twice as much money available as the xfl was bought for and still failed miserably. They dont have any thing other than a bill of sale. They have no teams, coaches, players, infrastructure, management etc. They have a bill of sale, and a history of failure to make it more then 1 season. With out the talks with the CFL the XFL would have no pulse at all. With out the XFL, well you can always find backers, investors, and gov't money. 

I do not see us conceding field width, end zone depth, or 3 downs. The xfl simply doesnt have the value to discuss those points. 

Its not about what the XFL was bought for.  The group behind the XFL purchase is worth billions.  They probably are giving the CFL more money to play a season this year then they bought the XFL for. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Colin Unger said:

You have to wonder if they would consider bringing back the Baltimore Stallions.  With the CFL being involved I think you'd have a better chance in that market then most other markets. 

I think that ship has sailed. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Colin Unger said:

You have to wonder if they would consider bringing back the Baltimore Stallions.  With the CFL being involved I think you'd have a better chance in that market then most other markets. 

Lol...  have you been living under a rock?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Ravens

You'd have a better example with St Louis since they had decent attendances mostly out of spite and anger at the Rams leaving town on real bad terms.  

[Mark F]

11 hours ago, JCon said:

It's most likely that they are working on a player sharing agreement and sharing of marketing and development. 

need more than that to keep the CFL going.

 

[Colin Unger]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Lol...  have you been living under a rock?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Ravens

You'd have a better example with St Louis since they had decent attendances mostly out of spite and anger at the Rams leaving town on real bad terms.  

Im aware there's an NFL team there now.  Its just that it wouldn't be the only XFL market where there is also an NFL team.  There might still be some nostalgia there with some fans. 

13 hours ago, JCon said:

What everyone is forgetting is the timing of these leagues. XFL starts after the super bowl and ends a few weeks later when they run out of money (or spring). 

It's most likely that they are working on a player sharing agreement and sharing of marketing and development. 

I thought maybe so at first.  But with the XFL postponing their season due to the CFL talks and guys like Bob Young talking about making rule changes I think we are looking at XFL teams playing CFL teams at the very least.

[SpeedFlex27]

13 hours ago, JCon said:

What everyone is forgetting is the timing of these leagues. XFL starts after the super bowl and ends a few weeks later when they run out of money (or spring). 

It's most likely that they are working on a player sharing agreement and sharing of marketing and development. 

here's what I think is happening. The CFL wants to stay relevant so they have to play. Liberals will give them no financial support. All their revenue streams have dried up. The owners of the XFL finance a season with no fans either by a loan or a promise that in return they join their league & go to NFL sized field & 4 downs with some CFL tweaks. No Canadian ratio only international players as a small part of the team. However, experienced CFL veterans would start & play on the Canadian teams but there would be no mandated Canadian starters. The new league opens training camps in the Southern US in late February, plays all of their games in March down south & once the weather allows for outdoor games up here in Canada from mid April they'd start playing home games in Canada.  The schedule is April to September & wrapped up the championship at the latest by the end of that month. There's no other reason why the CFL would be talking to the XFL owners. They give our teams money. Here are the conditions you must meet. 

[Colin Unger]

21 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

here's what I think is happening. The CFL wants to stay relevant so they have to play. Liberals will give them no financial support. All their revenue streams have dried up. The owners of the XFL finance a season with no fans either by a loan or a promise that in return they join their league & go to NFL sized field & 4 downs with some CFL tweaks. No Canadian ratio only international players as a small part of the team. However, experienced CFL veterans would start & play on the Canadian teams but there would be no mandated Canadian starters. The new league opens training camps in the Southern US in late February, plays all of their games in March down south & once the weather allows for outdoor games up here in Canada from mid April they'd start playing home games in Canada.  The schedule is April to September & wrapped up the championship at the latest by the end of that month. There's no other reason why the CFL would be talking to the XFL owners. They give our teams money. Here are the conditions you must meet. 

The only part of that that I disagree with is i think they would do something with the size of the field. They might settle on 57-60 yards wide and when you drop from 12 players per team to 11 there would be similar space out there as you see now in a cfl game. There is no way that it's basically NFL football with forward motion behind the line of scrimmage. Im calling that now.   At the very least it has to be sold to fans of both styles of football as a fair compromise. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Colin Unger

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

The only part of that that I disagree with is i think they would do something with the size of the field. They might settle on 57-60 yards wide and when you drop from 12 players per team to 11 there would be similar space out there as you see now in a cfl game. There is no way that it's basically NFL football with forward motion behind the line of scrimmage. Im calling that now.   At the very least it has to be sold to fans of both styles of football as a fair compromise. 

Where do the XFL owners want to grow their league? In the US or Canada?? Americans fans don't care about our rules & field size. The markets they really want are in the US just like the NHL. Why tweak an NFL field & make it 5 yards wider when it would have to be changed back a few months later? Too much work & the NFL & college teams wouldn't allow it. That makes no sense. The stadiums in the US aren't built for Canadian football. You seem to think our league will come into this merger (if it happens) from a position of strength. We won't. That won't happen. When you get a bank loan do you tell the bank what the terms are? Not likely. 

[JCon]

46 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

Im aware there's an NFL team there now.  Its just that it wouldn't be the only XFL market where there is also an NFL team.  There might still be some nostalgia there with some fans. 

I thought maybe so at first.  But with the XFL postponing their season due to the CFL talks and guys like Bob Young talking about making rule changes I think we are looking at XFL teams playing CFL teams at the very least.

But the XFL is not postponing anything, in reality. They weren't playing until February 2022 anyhow. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Where do the XFL owners want to grow their league? In the US or Canada?? Americans fans don't care about our rules & field size. The markets they really want are in the US just like the NHL. Why tweak an NFL field & make it 5 yards wider when it would have to be changed back a few months later? Too much work & the NFL & college teams wouldn't allow it. That makes no sense. The stadiums in the US aren't built for Canadian football. You seem to think our league will come into this merger (if it happens) from a position of strength. We won't. That won't happen. When you get a bank loan do you tell the bank what the terms are? Not likely. 

If there is nothing in it for the XFL and they are essentially just a bankroll, then why would they bother? And why would they postpone their season next year pending talks with the CFL? Let’s not assume they don’t need us and have the CFL over a barrel. I suspect there is some leverage for the CFL. 

[Colin Unger]

5 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Where do the XFL owners want to grow their league? In the US or Canada?? Americans fans don't care about our rules & field size. The markets they really want are in the US just like the NHL. Why tweak an NFL field & make it 5 yards wider when it would have to be changed back a few months later? Too much work & the NFL & college teams wouldn't allow it. That makes no sense. The stadiums in the US aren't built for Canadian football. You seem to think our league will come into this merger (if it happens) from a position of strength. We won't. That won't happen. When you get a bank loan do you tell the bank what the terms are? Not likely. 

The XFL 2.0 was founded on the idea of serious football with tweaks to make the game more exciting. They want a differentiated experience from the NFL. Oliver Luck even talked about moving to a wider field in the future. The XFL would want this. Neither league would be coming into this from a position of strength. How many stable franchises does the XFL have.  Maybe 1?   There is a reason why these non-NFL american football leagues don't work. Its because there isn't much interest in something that is just a minor league version of the NFL. You need to design the game to take advantage of the availability of smaller skilled players who aren't a fit for the NFL. 

3 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If there is nothing in it for the XFL and they are essentially just a bankroll, then why would they bother? And why would they postpone their season next year pending talks with the CFL? Let’s not assume they don’t need us and have the CFL over a barrel. I suspect there is some leverage for the CFL. 

Agree 100%...  The CFL IMO could take a different path.  Those other paths would likely require relinquishing more control than the want to.  They are pursuing this path because they are being treated with respect and are maintaining an agreeable amount of control and the share the same vision as the XFL.  Working together with the XFL to grow a unique game internationally works better then having two separate entities competing against eachother to do the same thing.