CFL/XFL Exploring Alignment

[SpeedFlex27]

18 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If there is nothing in it for the XFL and they are essentially just a bankroll, then why would they bother? And why would they postpone their season next year pending talks with the CFL? Let’s not assume they don’t need us and have the CFL over a barrel. I suspect there is some leverage for the CFL. 

They acquire assets. Teams & organizations ready to go with people in place. As well as the  110 year history of the league. It help[s with credibility as well as stability. But like the NHL they care a lot more about new markets in  American cities with a couple million or more people than say Winnipeg or Regina.

Look how the NHL has dicked around Quebec City. In the time Quebec has tried to get back to the NHL, they dropped teams in Winnipeg, Las Vegas & Seattle while stringing QC along. The NHL have no plans to expand to that market even though they have a beautiful 18,000 seat arena in place & a superhot market literally crying for a team. Hartford will get a new team before QC does, I believe.

Advertisers in the US would also look at viewership numbers generated down there not up here. Better ratings, more advertising & bigger future tv deals. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

26 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

The XFL 2.0 was founded on the idea of serious football with tweaks to make the game more exciting. They want a differentiated experience from the NFL. Oliver Luck even talked about moving to a wider field in the future. The XFL would want this. Neither league would be coming into this from a position of strength. How many stable franchises does the XFL have.  Maybe 1?   There is a reason why these non-NFL american football leagues don't work. Its because there isn't much interest in something that is just a minor league version of the NFL. You need to design the game to take advantage of the availability of smaller skilled players who aren't a fit for the NFL. 

Agree 100%...  The CFL IMO could take a different path.  Those other paths would likely require relinquishing more control than the want to.  They are pursuing this path because they are being treated with respect and are maintaining an agreeable amount of control and the share the same vision as the XFL.  Working together with the XFL to grow a unique game internationally works better then having two separate entities competing against eachother to do the same thing. 

Colin, I have no idea where you get some of your ideas from, honestly. The CFL is dealing with a multi billion dollar entertainment company & multi millionaires running it. These guys don't go into deals with weakness. They are the money men. THEY call the shots not Randy Ambrosie. They'll make as good a deal as they can on both sides or walk away from it. Redbird, Garcia & Johnson have a plan that they'll follow. If not, they're gone. 

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

Its not about what the XFL was bought for.  The group behind the XFL purchase is worth billions.  They probably are giving the CFL more money to play a season this year then they bought the XFL for. 

So was the group behind xfl 1.0 and xfl 2.0 and the aafl. and the original arena football league. 

Backers dont invest money to lose it. And the longer money is spent with 0 progress the less long term matters.  The wealthy elite does not throw away money willy nilly. 

[Colin Unger]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Colin, I have no idea where you get some of your ideas from, honestly. The CFL is dealing with a multi billion dollar entertainment company & multi millionaires running it. These guys don't go into deals with weakness. They are the money men. THEY call the shots not Randy Ambrosie. They'll make as good a deal as they can on both sides or walk away from it. Redbird, Garcia & Johnson have a plan that they'll follow. If not, they're gone. 

They don't call the shots if they don't own the league and its teams.  I don't view this as the XFL group purchasing the CFL to do with what they want. I view it similar to the time the CFL was given/lent money from the NFL. There will also be a partnership where the CFL teams maintain control over their organization and the ability to exit the partnership if requests are made that are not to their liking.  

[Tracker]

Many here are getting sweaty about something that may or may not happen or have any impact on our beloved CFL. I think the CFL is in a much better bargaining position that it was at the time of the US expansion, and there are enough smart people involved in running the teams and CFL that concerns will be dealt with or the CFL will back off. If nothing else, it got people talking about the CFL.

[Colin Unger]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

So was the group behind xfl 1.0 and xfl 2.0 and the aafl. and the original arena football league. 

Backers dont invest money to lose it. And the longer money is spent with 0 progress the less long term matters.  The wealthy elite does not throw away money willy nilly. 

I think when we bring XFL 2.0 up we have to consider the pandemic in the equation. I believe that XFL 2.0 would have lasted multiple seasons had it not been for the pandemic.  Vince McMahon was using his personal money and was prepared to spend for multiple seasons to try and turn it into something that was profitable. But with the Pandemic they ended up having to cut the season short with no guarantee of when they would be able to resume playing football again. At the same time Vince's core business was also in trouble due to the pandemic and Vince McMahon wisely decided to pull the plug. It was a very different situation then the AAF which didn't really have solid financial backing and different from XFL 1.0 where Vince McMahon had to answer to the WWE board of governors. 

I do think this is a different situation but having said that the key is for the CFL to walk before they run.  It shouldn't start as a merger.  It should start as two separate leagues with two seperate championships who play some games against each other during the regular season and the Grey Cup winner plays for the international Cup against the XFL winner after that.  Share some tv revenues and share business ideas ect.  The CFL needs to maintain the ability to walk away. 

[Colin Unger]

 

[Mark F]

might have to axe a couple of franchises to get anything significant done.

 

for instance, Toronto people just arent interested. why bother with that team. I am tired of watching players working their butt off in front a few thousand people. 

replace it with an american team with actual fans.

that would be more interesting to watch for me than toromto dumping on the game and league.

if that means more american players, fine.

I think a lot of canadians would be MORE interested in the CFL if it had more americans. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Mark F

[Brandon]

5 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

Im aware there's an NFL team there now.  Its just that it wouldn't be the only XFL market where there is also an NFL team.  There might still be some nostalgia there with some fans. 

Are you suggesting that here in Winnipeg that we have people who are nostalgic of the Winnipeg Thunder basketball team?  I'm pretty sure 99% of the people in Baltimore do not even know or remember the Stallions from  30 years ago.

Once again...  forget not that the 'Murricans have a tonne of NCAA and even high school love for local football teams.   Their is not a need or a thurst for more minor league football down south. 

[Colin Unger]

1 minute ago, Brandon said:

Are you suggesting that here in Winnipeg that we have people who are nostalgic of the Winnipeg Thunder basketball team?  I'm pretty sure 99% of the people in Baltimore do not even know or remember the Stallions from  30 years ago.

Once again...  forget not that the 'Murricans have a tonne of NCAA and even high school love for local football teams.   Their is not a need or a thurst for more minor league football down south. 

Its a little different then that situation.  They were having 40 to 50k fans per game. 

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

I think when we bring XFL 2.0 up we have to consider the pandemic in the equation. I believe that XFL 2.0 would have lasted multiple seasons had it not been for the pandemic.  Vince McMahon was using his personal money and was prepared to spend for multiple seasons to try and turn it into something that was profitable. But with the Pandemic they ended up having to cut the season short with no guarantee of when they would be able to resume playing football again. At the same time Vince's core business was also in trouble due to the pandemic and Vince McMahon wisely decided to pull the plug. It was a very different situation then the AAF which didn't really have solid financial backing and different from XFL 1.0 where Vince McMahon had to answer to the WWE board of governors. 

I do think this is a different situation but having said that the key is for the CFL to walk before they run.  It shouldn't start as a merger.  It should start as two separate leagues with two seperate championships who play some games against each other during the regular season and the Grey Cup winner plays for the international Cup against the XFL winner after that.  Share some tv revenues and share business ideas ect.  The CFL needs to maintain the ability to walk away. 

I dont agree that they wouldve made it. They had 2 massive losses in attendance and tv views before covid hit. The XFL 2.0 had vince take a huge gamble based on doubling the 2nd tv deal. With a continual downward trend in drawing power that wouldnt have happened. 

I think that is the best case scenario. If we got say 2 weeks of inter league play, a big multi league all star game, and a 2nd grand championship game that'd be a win for every one involved. Not to mention the potential of interleague trades and such.  

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

Its a little different then that situation.  They were having 40 to 50k fans per game. 

That was nearly THIRTY years ago. Most of those fans are dead or seniors who wouldn't buy tickets anymore.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

Its a little different then that situation.  They were having 40 to 50k fans per game. 

I would recommend checking NCAA attendances and even some high schools are getting 15 - 20 k....

[rebusrankin]

Baltimore drew a ton of fans for their CFL team because they were starving for an NFL team having lost the Colts and to prove to the NFL they should have a franchise Situation is not comparable to now

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Baltimore drew a ton of fans for their CFL team because they were starving for an NFL team having lost the Colts and to prove to the NFL they should have a franchise Situation is not comparable to now

Plus the Ravens won a SB in the early 2000's & have a SB contending team now. Two, maybe 3 generations of Baltimore fans don't consider the Colts to be their team anymore as they left in 1984. They belong to Indy. Just like the Coyotes aren't Winnipeg's team anymore. 

[Super Duper Negatron]

Watched part of an XFL documentary on TSN about the first failed attempt to get that league off the ground. It looks gross. If we truly are going to be aligned with them I hope it looks nothing like the hype machine and amateur hour personalities surrounding that first attempt.

[SpeedFlex27]

53 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Watched part of an XFL documentary on TSN about the first failed attempt to get that league off the ground. It looks gross. If we truly are going to be aligned with them I hope it looks nothing like the hype machine and amateur hour personalities surrounding that first attempt.

Jesse Ventura got into it on air with one of the head coaches. He threatened to come down from the booth & beat him up. Remember He Hate Me?

[wbbfan]

On 2021-03-14 at 11:11 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

Plus the Ravens won a SB in the early 2000's & have a SB contending team now. Two, maybe 3 generations of Baltimore fans don't consider the Colts to be their team anymore as they left in 1984. They belong to Indy. Just like the Coyotes aren't Winnipeg's team anymore. 

Idk is there another prime US city that would be an expansion market like that for the xfl? Baltimore in that era was a perfect storm. 

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Idk is there another prime US city that would be an expansion market like that for the xfl? Baltimore in that era was a perfect storm. 

St Louis because they were also pissed off at the owner leaving town,  that is why they had good attendances for their XFL team. 

[Eternal optimist]

Oof. Why are these dopes even giving XFL the time of day? As Doug Brown stated on CBC The National last night:

"They don't have a history of running successful football leagues, all they have is cash. To me, it kind of wreaks of desperation, when a league that is as established and storied and... has the longevity the Canadian Football League has, is - collaborating and talking with the XFL."

Couldn't agree more.

[Bigblue204]

3 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Oof. Why are these dopes even giving XFL the time of day? As Doug Brown stated on CBC The National last night:

"They don't have a history of running successful football leagues, all they have is cash. To me, it kind of wreaks of desperation, when a league that is as established and storied and... has the longevity the Canadian Football League has, is - collaborating and talking with the XFL."

Couldn't agree more.

Why is there is any confusion about the desperation of the CFL? OF COURSE THEY'RE DESPERATE!!! Does anyone think they would be doing this under circumstances where the league was financially stable? Brown always knows how to say the obvious while making it seem like he's saying something profound. 

[M.Silverback]

41 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Why is there is any confusion about the desperation of the CFL? OF COURSE THEY'RE DESPERATE!!! Does anyone think they would be doing this under circumstances where the league was financially stable? Brown always knows how to say the obvious while making it seem like he's saying something profound. 

Exactly! I haven't listened to the Doug Brown clip, but did he offer any alternative solutions? I haven't really heard any viable solutions from anyone who is vehemently on the anti-XFL talk side. 

If the solution is continue business as usual, my response is ...

 

 

[JCon]

No one is suggesting doing "nothing". But, the idea that the XFL, which stands for the Ex-Football League, is some sort of saviour seems ridiculous. If they have money to put into the league, they must want something pretty big in return. 

There must be solutions to raise attendance that don't involve pieces of poontang pie? 

[Bigblue204]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

No one is suggesting doing "nothing". But, the idea that the XFL, which stands for the Ex-Football League, is some sort of saviour seems ridiculous. If they have money to put into the league, they must want something pretty big in return. 

There must be solutions to raise attendance that don't involve pieces of poontang pie? 

There is. 100%. However they should have been tried years ago. The league is likely looking for a right now solution.

[JCon]

Just now, Bigblue204 said:

There is. 100%. However they should have been tried years ago. The league is likely looking for a right now solution.

Agreed.

 

I still think they can go back to the Feds with a plan and the CFLPA on board for a loan.