Around The NHL 2021/22

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

Is it a rush to judgement or are people sick and tired of a hockey culture that hasn't given 2 sh!ts about the abuse of players of all ages and genders?

Yea this starts at the grassroots level and changing certain approaches for the better. Not to say that it doesn't happen in other sports because it obviously does but being a parent of two student athletes over the years I rarely heard anything positive said about the hockey culture unless of course it's coming from 'that' guy. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Yea this starts at the grassroots level and changing certain approaches for the better. Not to say that it doesn't happen in other sports because it obviously does but being a parent of two student athletes over the years I rarely heard anything positive said about the hockey culture unless of course it's coming from 'that' guy. 

So how does O’Shea’s #FIFO mantra fit within the “culture” of a team. Clearly not intended to extend to sexual assault, but the whole concept of “put the team ahead of yourself”, “don’t be an individual who causes problems, be a team guy and fall in line” creates a mood where players keep quiet and subscribe to the group mentality  or get ostracized. Where hazing is shrugged off as “team bonding” or “making sure the rookie shows respect”. Lots of blurry lines can be found, and it’s a lot easier to pick apart the flaws with the benefit of hindsight. 

[HardCoreBlue]

33 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

So how does O’Shea’s #FIFO mantra fit within the “culture” of a team. Clearly not intended to extend to sexual assault, but the whole concept of “put the team ahead of yourself”, “don’t be an individual who causes problems, be a team guy and fall in line” creates a mood where players keep quiet and subscribe to the group mentality  or get ostracized. Where hazing is shrugged off as “team bonding” or “making sure the rookie shows respect”. Lots of blurry lines can be found, and it’s a lot easier to pick apart the flaws with the benefit of hindsight. 

With respect I’m not sure what your point is in relation to working at the grassroots level to improve culture because there is always room for improvement.

[Wideleft]

50 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

So how does O’Shea’s #FIFO mantra fit within the “culture” of a team. Clearly not intended to extend to sexual assault, but the whole concept of “put the team ahead of yourself”, “don’t be an individual who causes problems, be a team guy and fall in line” creates a mood where players keep quiet and subscribe to the group mentality  or get ostracized. Where hazing is shrugged off as “team bonding” or “making sure the rookie shows respect”. Lots of blurry lines can be found, and it’s a lot easier to pick apart the flaws with the benefit of hindsight. 

Maybe FIFO can also mean respect your teammates and players.  FIFO doesn't by default mean it's ok to do bad things.

Hazing is officially prohibited in just about any sports or educational organization now.

[SpeedFlex27]

47 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Maybe FIFO can also mean respect your teammates and players.  FIFO doesn't by default mean it's ok to do bad things.

Hazing is officially prohibited in just about any sports or educational organization now.

My son Tyler played football for Simon Fraser University from 2012-15. He played Junior College in California after playing two years iof Junior football with the Rifles. So, he was 22 & nearly 23 when he went to SFU as a qb. They wanted to haze him with the 18 year old rookies. He just looked at the veterans wanting to do it, stared them down & said there's no way he was going to allow it. As he was 4 years older than some of the veterans on the team & he was a qb, they backed down. Refusing to be hazed never affected his relationship with any player after that as he was elected as a captain his second year & was very close with a lot of guys in the locker room. Of course, he was always thought of as the Old Man on the team. FIFO doesn't mean anyone should take abuse from anyone associated with their team.. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

Just one more thing regarding sexual abuse. When I coached football, I was a bantam HC here in Calgary. This was back in 2003-2005. I instigated a team rule at practice or games that any coach or volunteer that needed to take a player back to our locker room to treat an injury or fix an equipment problem with a player couldn't do it alone. At least 2 adults always had to be present at all times when a player went back. To protect not only the player but the volunteers or coaches themselves. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

6 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Staying silent for 11 years is active enough for me.

 

We don’t know that he stayed silent for 11 years. We know it did not come out for 11 years, but to say he willingly stayed silent is not proven, and WILLINGLY is the key word. You hear an allegation, you see the party responsible removed from the team shortly thereafter, are you in the wrong for not ensuring that every proper step was followed by those handling it?

So is Cheveldayoff responsible for following up after Aldrich leaves the team to track his movements and ensure he never gets hired anywhere again? Is he wrong to see Aldrich let go and assume that the matter was dealt with by the management team who said they would deal with it? (Without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight). And if 6 weeks after the meeting action has been taken, is it wrong of him to assume that is was handled, and hold him to 11 more years of self-investigation where he is not knowingly staying silent, because there is nothing in his mind to suggest there is silence going on? And is he responsible for going to Beach and demanding that this be taken to the police, and that Beach compelled as the victim to testify at trial, because anything short of that can be seen in hindsight 11 years later as a cover-up? Of course not.

We can absolutely see gaps in the chain of command, but he can’t be held to the standard of what we now know, only what he knew or did not know in the context of the facts at the time, and in the context of what others knew and relayed to him. And those questions should be answered before we deem him safe or fireable. Too many on either side want to jump the gun and come to a conclusion. 

Expand  

We don't know if Chevy stayed silent??? How can you even say that? Holy .... ! He has never spoken about it. 

[Wideleft]

10 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We don't know if Chevy stayed silent??? How can you even say that? Holy .... ! He has never spoken about it. 

Exactly!

[TrueBlue4ever]

I guess what I am trying to get at is that saying we need to “change the culture” can be difficult to define. FIFO is lauded as a great thing because it speaks to a team mentality where no one is selfish and they work together for a common goal. And because the team won it is seen as an example of how the winning culture of the organization has been built. But the flip side is seeing the Blackhawks not want to disrupt the winning culture of a Stanley Cup contender by having a player.coach incident infect the locker room and having an individual issue overtake the team as a whole. 
So when we talk about changing the culture at the grassroots, do we take the concept of the team out of it? Do we say each individual should be heard and every issue heard at an individual level rather than looking at the team concept? As an example, Evander Kane shows up late for team meetings and not dressed as per the team dress code. He has been given reprimands but has not been changed his anti-FIFO behaviour. As a message that this guy should step in line, a teammate chucks his clothes on the shower. A much more effective message probably because it is handled on a player level without the need for whistleblowing. But one that certainly shows him disrespect (as he had himself shown disrespect for the team). Should the player or players who initiated the shower prank be punished because it was disrespectful? And if he said it was motivated by racism, should all those players be immediately suspended or shown the door because of Kane’s complaint? Because that is what has been said in some quarters about the BwXh incident. That everyone in the May meeting should have immediately kicked Aldrich off the team, not weeks later. But that is with 11 years of passing time and hindsight. What was known that day is less than what is known now, but some want the actions to be judged on what we know now, not back then. 
So back to the culture thing. Hard to make a blanket “culture” change because the same thought behind building a team and working together can create a situation where bad things are not spoken about or are “handled internally”, but the original intent of the culture was not to create that type of problem. I wonder if the better approach is to put rules and safeguards in place rather than calling for a “culture” overhaul. Right now in Manitoba junior sports, every prospective coach working with minors requires a background sex abuse registry check, minimal coaching certification training, and take a respect in sport course. And still some will slip through the cracks I am sure. JustA not sure how “changing the culture” and creating a whistleblower approach to everything will work. Open to hearing thoughts, I am not advocating for any approach as right or wrong. 

11 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Exactly!

Perhaps that should be altered to “he has never spoken about it to the media or the public”, since he has complied and fully cooperated with the private (now very public) investigation and shared what he knew and did not know, by all accounts. 

[Noeller]

^^ You really gotta do something about this wall of text you've been posting lately.....

[JuranBoldenRules]

FIFO is just "fit in" in the sense of everyone pulling the same direction for the same goal on the football field.  It's not at all a request to suppress personality or personal responsibility, personal or group accountability or sweep criminality under the rug.  I don't really know how it has entered this discussion as a means to build/enable a culture of disrespect in the community of the team or broader community.  Appears to be quite the opposite.

[Jesse]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I guess what I am trying to get at is that saying we need to “change the culture” can be difficult to define. FIFO is lauded as a great thing because it speaks to a team mentality where no one is selfish and they work together for a common goal. And because the team won it is seen as an example of how the winning culture of the organization has been built. But the flip side is seeing the Blackhawks not want to disrupt the winning culture of a Stanley Cup contender by having a player.coach incident infect the locker room and having an individual issue overtake the team as a whole. 
So when we talk about changing the culture at the grassroots, do we take the concept of the team out of it? Do we say each individual should be heard and every issue heard at an individual level rather than looking at the team concept? As an example, Evander Kane shows up late for team meetings and not dressed as per the team dress code. He has been given reprimands but has not been changed his anti-FIFO behaviour. As a message that this guy should step in line, a teammate chucks his clothes on the shower. A much more effective message probably because it is handled on a player level without the need for whistleblowing. But one that certainly shows him disrespect (as he had himself shown disrespect for the team). Should the player or players who initiated the shower prank be punished because it was disrespectful? And if he said it was motivated by racism, should all those players be immediately suspended or shown the door because of Kane’s complaint? Because that is what has been said in some quarters about the BwXh incident. That everyone in the May meeting should have immediately kicked Aldrich off the team, not weeks later. But that is with 11 years of passing time and hindsight. What was known that day is less than what is known now, but some want the actions to be judged on what we know now, not back then. 
So back to the culture thing. Hard to make a blanket “culture” change because the same thought behind building a team and working together can create a situation where bad things are not spoken about or are “handled internally”, but the original intent of the culture was not to create that type of problem. I wonder if the better approach is to put rules and safeguards in place rather than calling for a “culture” overhaul. Right now in Manitoba junior sports, every prospective coach working with minors requires a background sex abuse registry check, minimal coaching certification training, and take a respect in sport course. And still some will slip through the cracks I am sure. JustA not sure how “changing the culture” and creating a whistleblower approach to everything will work. Open to hearing thoughts, I am not advocating for any approach as right or wrong. 

Perhaps that should be altered to “he has never spoken about it to the media or the public”, since he has complied and fully cooperated with the private (now very public) investigation and shared what he knew and did not know, by all accounts. 

**** man, there’s right and wrong.

Two teammates not getting along? Sure, have them hash it out with everyone in the locker room.

Assualt, sexism, homophobia, or other things that are illegal in society are wrong and should be dealt with as they would be anywhere else. You say “whistleblower” like calling the authorities when someone is breaking the law like it’s a bad thing.

[Colin Unger]

I will admit I'm somewhat surprised that Chevy was publicly exonerated of any wrongdoing given the current climate. I think that Don Fehr needs to step down because he was supposed to warn hockey USA and did not. I always felt that if anyone at that meeting was going to keep their job it was Chevy since he was not in a senior management position and the initial report from this meeting was not of a sexual assault. It was a report of a coach coming onto a player but that nothing more than that happened. At that time the victim was seemingly not comfortable sharing the full story and that is completely understandable. Chevy's involvement was limited to being at the meeting and most of the people who were at the meeting didn't even remember that he was there. Senior management needed to be fired and so did Joel Quenneville.  It was reported that he had spoken up and suggested that the team couldn't handle this type of distraction so they should wait until after the playoffs to deal with it. I also have a very hard time believing that ownership was never made aware of the situation.

[TrueBlue4ever]

4 hours ago, Noeller said:

^^ You really gotta do something about this wall of text you've been posting lately.....

Fine. People are rushing to judgment without knowing the full story. Don’t do that. 

And no need to justify my stance, it would be too wordy. Just accept it. 

Better?

[bigg jay]

5 hours ago, Noeller said:

^^ You really gotta do something about this wall of text you've been posting lately.....

Lately?  95% of the time I start reading the post and then say FRAT.

[Nolby]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We don't know if Chevy stayed silent??? How can you even say that? Holy .... ! He has never spoken about it. 

My guess with Chevy is that he was brought into the 1 meeting they attended,it was mentioned that an incident went down with the team and that was all that he was told,no names or the offender. He was the lowest on the todem pole so he may very well not have known at all who it was ,ever.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Nolby

[Brandon]

14 hours ago, M.O.A.B. said:

So are the people here that wanting Chevy disciplined, going to boycott the Jets now?

Just asking for a friend.

No because that's absolutely ridiculous and childish and completely immature.  

[JuranBoldenRules]

11 hours ago, Nolby said:

My guess with Chevy is that he was brought into the 1 meeting they attended,it was mentioned that an incident went down with the team and that was all that he was told,no names or the offender. He was the lowest on the todem pole so he may very well not have known at all who it was ,ever.

Wasn't "an incident" reported in 2010, it was harassing behaviour.  The assault wasn't reported until much later as corroborated by the report released this week and Beach's interviews on TV and for the report.

They, the NHL, need an independent body to handle these types of allegations in the workplace without having fear of sending people home for awhile to get it sorted out.  That seems to be the big fear that ultimately cost Quenneville his job and any legacy he would have had, along with the fact he was presiding over practices where homophobic slurs were a joke and enabled well into the 2010s.

[Nolby]

20 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Wasn't "an incident" reported in 2010, it was harassing behaviour.  The assault wasn't reported until much later as corroborated by the report released this week and Beach's interviews on TV and for the report.

They, the NHL, need an independent body to handle these types of allegations in the workplace without having fear of sending people home for awhile to get it sorted out.  That seems to be the big fear that ultimately cost Quenneville his job and any legacy he would have had, along with the fact he was presiding over practices where homophobic slurs were a joke and enabled well into the 2010s.

There should always be an independent investigation to avoid any bias. I'm just hoping we're getting to that day and age where people shouldn't feel fear for their jobs, reputation,gossip and that anyone can feel safe to tell someone without feeling like there will be any social repercussions.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Nolby

[FrostyWinnipeg]

14 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

 I think that Don Fehr needs to step down because he was supposed to warn hockey USA and did not. 

 

[HardCoreBlue]

21 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I guess what I am trying to get at is that saying we need to “change the culture” can be difficult to define. FIFO is lauded as a great thing because it speaks to a team mentality where no one is selfish and they work together for a common goal. And because the team won it is seen as an example of how the winning culture of the organization has been built. But the flip side is seeing the Blackhawks not want to disrupt the winning culture of a Stanley Cup contender by having a player.coach incident infect the locker room and having an individual issue overtake the team as a whole. 
So when we talk about changing the culture at the grassroots, do we take the concept of the team out of it? Do we say each individual should be heard and every issue heard at an individual level rather than looking at the team concept? As an example, Evander Kane shows up late for team meetings and not dressed as per the team dress code. He has been given reprimands but has not been changed his anti-FIFO behaviour. As a message that this guy should step in line, a teammate chucks his clothes on the shower. A much more effective message probably because it is handled on a player level without the need for whistleblowing. But one that certainly shows him disrespect (as he had himself shown disrespect for the team). Should the player or players who initiated the shower prank be punished because it was disrespectful? And if he said it was motivated by racism, should all those players be immediately suspended or shown the door because of Kane’s complaint? Because that is what has been said in some quarters about the BwXh incident. That everyone in the May meeting should have immediately kicked Aldrich off the team, not weeks later. But that is with 11 years of passing time and hindsight. What was known that day is less than what is known now, but some want the actions to be judged on what we know now, not back then. 
So back to the culture thing. Hard to make a blanket “culture” change because the same thought behind building a team and working together can create a situation where bad things are not spoken about or are “handled internally”, but the original intent of the culture was not to create that type of problem. I wonder if the better approach is to put rules and safeguards in place rather than calling for a “culture” overhaul. Right now in Manitoba junior sports, every prospective coach working with minors requires a background sex abuse registry check, minimal coaching certification training, and take a respect in sport course. And still some will slip through the cracks I am sure. JustA not sure how “changing the culture” and creating a whistleblower approach to everything will work. Open to hearing thoughts, I am not advocating for any approach as right or wrong. 

Perhaps that should be altered to “he has never spoken about it to the media or the public”, since he has complied and fully cooperated with the private (now very public) investigation and shared what he knew and did not know, by all accounts. 

Not really. Do you know how to define a culture? Your culture can be defined by the worst behaviour that is tolerated.

[iHeart]

 

Also Helle didn't practice today because the baby's either coming or already here

Edited November 1, 2021 by iHeart

[Goalie]

Chipper with vertigo. That blows. 

 

[blue_gold_84]

[bb1]

I have read Bettman's statement and heard Chevy 's response. I am not a big Bettman fan but really respect how he has handled this terrible situation in regards to Chevy. Kudos to him for not taking the easy route.