3 stars and hh bluer than blue

[wbbfan]

18 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

The injury time out allows the booth to review and determine if the injury was a result of a missed call. If no injury, then no penalty, but not because the penalty did not happen, but rather because without injury there is no opportunity for review. The injury review won’t always lead automatically to a penalty. Players get injured in game all the time without a penalty being tacked on, and yes the rule specifically requires the injury spotter to stop the game and demand removal of the player from the game, so it is clearly addressing concussion protocol, so it is geared towards removing that type of play from the game. The league wants that type of play removed, so they are going to call it. But if he wasn’t hurt, it doesn’t mean an infraction did not occur, just that it was missed by the refs and not reviewable. They aren’t deciding “well he was hurt so we have to now invent a penalty where there was none”. As for suspensions based on result, welcome to discipline review in all sports. 

That call was 100 percent reactionary to the injury. That's how it's supposed to work but not how it worked last night. We see hits like that 10 to 20 times a year with no flag. It was clean. He wasn't late he didn't target the head he didn't lead with the head he got penalized for hitting too hard. 

[Mark F]

we all hope there is minimal or no permanent injury to  daniels. 

that was disturbing.

 

[wpgallday1960]

You can dispute the call made on Alexander but in the end it didn’t cost us any points, just time and field position. I thought the PI on the INT was iffy as was the incompletion on Adams.  The calls may not have been good but I don’t think it cost WBB the game.  Lack of execution was the main culprit, IMO.

[Stickem]

That call on Alexander was complete and utter bull$hit....This isn't a game of tiddlywinks we're playing this is hard hitting football..The p.i. call was also bogus....That was an atrocious outting by our guys...I hope that is the stinker of the year and the only one....We need some offence correction..Buck needs to get on it...and we need some players back...

[TBURGESS]

For arguments sake, lets flip the jersey's. Adams is the one getting knocked out by exactly the same hit, do you still want them to let it go?

[BomberBall]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

For arguments sake, lets flip the jersey's. Adams is the one getting knocked out by exactly the same hit, do you still want them to let it go?

Yes

[Starman115]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

For arguments sake, lets flip the jersey's. Adams is the one getting knocked out by exactly the same hit, do you still want them to let it go?

I've seen similar plays dozens of times over the years and never ever called a penalty. The hit wasn't late or dirty, so why would I expect a penalty on a defender hitting a Bomber receiver?

[Goalie]

If you blink u miss the BA clean hit. That hit was football. I mean if you are gonna penalize a non head shot clean hit its time for flags on their back 

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

For arguments sake, lets flip the jersey's. Adams is the one getting knocked out by exactly the same hit, do you still want them to let it go?

Yes I would. I've seen our guys be on both ends of that hit. 

4 hours ago, wpgallday1960 said:

You can dispute the call made on Alexander but in the end it didn’t cost us any points, just time and field position. I thought the PI on the INT was iffy as was the incompletion on Adams.  The calls may not have been good but I don’t think it cost WBB the game.  Lack of execution was the main culprit, IMO.

Preparation and execution 100 cost the game. The refs didn't lose us the game. We had many chances to win it. The refs added salt to the wound and a separate issue almost. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

That type of hit is not acceptable in today’s game. If you look at the standard of roughing the passer today vs 10 or 20 years ago, we are approaching flag football status with them. And as for the dozens of hits like that, you rarely see a player knocked out from a hit. Wbbfan says Alexander got penalized for hitting too hard and he is bang on - but that is defined as a penalty these days, and rightly so given the concerns about concussions in football and possible liability for the league. 
 

I hear the critics saying “so players aren’t supposed to hit anymore?” and the answer is sliding towards “no they’re not, not like that”. League wants tackles and not kill shots, and have put rules in place like the no crack back block or blind side receiver block back towards the line of scrimmage or injury spotters review to keep this predatory hit out of the game. B*tch about football getting soft all you want, but don’t say it’s not a penalty. It wasn’t years ago, but it is now. And let’s get over the “They’re out to screw the Bombers with those calls” paranoia. The Toronto DB who got called for the late hit out of bounds was a pretty marginal penalty as well from a toughness or dirty play standpoint, but in today’s protective league it’s going to get called. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by TrueBlue4ever

[Mark F]

12 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 

I hear the critics saying “so players aren’t supposed to hit anymore?” and the answer is sliding towards “no they’re not, not like that

I am happy with things that make football safer for the players. Imdomnot want people to risk brain damage for my entertainment.

and Ido not care if the players accept the risk.

And there are tons of hard hits i  these games, that do not risk peoples brains.

I like the rugby style Wrapping up kind of tackles the most. and those maybe are the safest for both players, did not play so dont know

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Mark F

[wbbfan]

3 minutes ago, Mark F said:

I am happy with things that make football safer for the players. Imdomnot want people to risk brain damage for my entertainment.

and Ido not care if the players accept the risk.

And there are tons of hard hits i  these games, that do not risk peoples brains.

I like the rugby style Wrapping up kind of tackles the most. and those maybe are the safest for both players, did not play so dont know

 

 

 

 

The biggest risk last night was our own players colliding. 

The problem is they've never flagged that kind of hit before and won't keep it up. It was purely reactionary. 

Hawk tackling is the future. Early years should only be allowed to hawk tackle. Those levels are suffering all over because of lack of kids playing. 

[Mark F]

9 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Hawk tackling is the future

what is that have not heard of it?

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Mark F said:

what is that have not heard of it?

I know it's a long ass video but it's a good one. It's the rugby wrap tackle applied to football. A few teams in the us have adopted it but not many. They practice it with no pads on it's that safe. The legion of boom still had lots of hard hits and could do it with hawk tackles. 

 

[Mark F]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

The legion of boom still had lots of hard hits and could do it with hawk tackles. 

thanks going to watch that. 

[Goalie]

37 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

That type of hit is not acceptable in today’s game. If you look at the standard of roughing the passer today vs 10 or 20 years ago, we are approaching flag football status with them. And as for the dozens of hits like that, you rarely see a player knocked out from a hit. Wbbfan says Alexander got penalized for hitting too hard and he is bang on - but that is defined as a penalty these days, and rightly so given the concerns about concussions in football and possible liability for the league. 
 

I hear the critics saying “so players aren’t supposed to hit anymore?” and the answer is sliding towards “no they’re not, not like that”. League wants tackles and not kill shots, and have put rules in place like the no crack back block or blind side receiver block back towards the line of scrimmage or injury spotters review to keep this predatory hit out of the game. B*tch about football getting soft all you want, but don’t say it’s not a penalty. It wasn’t years ago, but it is now. And let’s get over the “They’re out to screw the Bombers with those calls” paranoia. The Toronto DB who got called for the late hit out of bounds was a pretty marginal penalty as well from a toughness or dirty play standpoint, but in today’s protective league it’s going to get called. 

Until they call that hit again... I disagree. I haven't watched every CFL game so far but these hits tend to go uncalled most games 

[Starman115]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

That type of hit is not acceptable in today’s game. If you look at the standard of roughing the passer today vs 10 or 20 years ago, we are approaching flag football status with them. And as for the dozens of hits like that, you rarely see a player knocked out from a hit. Wbbfan says Alexander got penalized for hitting too hard and he is bang on - but that is defined as a penalty these days, and rightly so given the concerns about concussions in football and possible liability for the league. 
 

So you believe that hit should have been a penalty on Alexander?

[TBURGESS]

I believe it was a valid penalty and should have been called right away. Defenceless receiver, ball already past him, DB making no attempt to play the ball instead, choosing to go for the kill shot. It's a dirty play and exactly the kind of play they want to get rid of in today's CFL. If Alexander had been a 1/2 second earlier, or the ball wasn't over the receivers head, then it wouldn't be a penalty, but those aren't the facts.

 

[wbbfan]

27 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I believe it was a valid penalty and should have been called right away. Defenceless receiver, ball already past him, DB making no attempt to play the ball instead, choosing to go for the kill shot. It's a dirty play and exactly the kind of play they want to get rid of in today's CFL. If Alexander had been a 1/2 second earlier, or the ball wasn't over the receivers head, then it wouldn't be a penalty, but those aren't the facts.

 

You don't have to play the ball. He didn't have an opportunity to play the ball either. 

You can't stop on a half seconds notice. That's not humanly possible and just a dumb expectation. It can't be a dirty hit and half a second from being clean. 

The cfl doesn't want to get rid of those hits. No other hit over the middle has been punished. Can you give one example of the cfl taking this action against hits over the middle? They sure didn't with the hit on Fajardo over the middle in week 2. 

[SpeedFlex27]

I didn't think it was an illegal hit nor was the ball overthrown by 5 yards. Alexander didn't lead with his helmet. It was a shouler pad hit. Only problem it was a high hit near or at the head & the officials will call that everytime. So, it's a legal hit but it's not really... 

[TrueBlue4ever]

8 hours ago, wbbfan said:

The problem is they've never flagged that kind of hit before and won't keep it up. It was purely reactionary.  

Taylor Loffler got flagged in BC for that same kind of high head shot on a receiver in the end zone in 2016 or 2017, so yes they have flagged it before. And no one can possibly know if they won’t keep it up. If you have that kind of clairvoyance, I’d like this week’s lottery numbers please. Seriously though, the refs have been throwing a lot of laundry this year - I sense  there is a crackdown happening, and this play may just be a part of it. 

8 hours ago, Goalie said:

Until they call that hit again... I disagree. I haven't watched every CFL game so far but these hits tend to go uncalled most games 

I keep hearing how these hits have happened all the time and aren’t called. Someone please identify another hit where the secondary defender has come in while the receiver is engaged with the primary defender, the offensive player is not the ball carrier and in fact never came in contact with the ball, the blow was to the head with the shoulder pad, the defensive player was targeting the player completely with no regard to playing the ball, the force of the blow was enough to knock the helmet off, AND the receiver was rendered unconscious. All of those factors were at play here. Please name the last hit you saw with those same circumstances in the past few years, much less games. Like I said, the Taylor Loffler hit is an example I can think of of a similar violent hit across the middle with the intent of blowing up the receiver. 

7 hours ago, Starman115 said:

So you believe that hit should have been a penalty on Alexander?

What I believe SHOULD be called is not relevant to my point. Was the hit dirty? No. Did he mean to hit the receiver hard? Sure looks like it (in fact after the game he said he’s going to hit as hard as he can). Did he have any intention of playing the ball? No. Was it violent? Yep. Was the receiver in a vulnerable spot? Absolutely (Alexander’s teammate had his arms wrapped up). Did the force of the hit knock off his helmet and render him unconscious? Yes on both counts. All that adds up to a dangerous situation which by today’s rules is a penalty. So if you want to say it’s BS that this kind of hit which used to be seen as good clean rough football is now a penalty in a softer game, then we can have that debate (Darryl Stingley may come down on the side of wishing that it was a penalty in past years). But to say it’s a BS penalty and that the refs screwed the Bombers is wrong in my books. Hate on the rule of you want, but the rule was enforced properly by the refs in this case IMO. If you want my personal opinion on stuff like this, I will look at a hit out of bounds or a roughing the QB and there are times when I think “boy that was a marginal penalty” bit I can at the same time understand why the call is being made. And there are times when I think it’s too marginal and the refs are calling it too tight. When I saw the hit the fist time I thought “wow, he really lit him up, that was kind of dangerous”, but I did not label it as dirty. Watching the slow mo replay and seeing the head contact, I still did not think it was dirty but thought “yeah, I can understand why that would be a penalty, especially to keep the game from spiralling into a state of retribution” 

4 hours ago, wbbfan said:

You don't have to play the ball. He didn't have an opportunity to play the ball either. 

You can't stop on a half seconds notice. That's not humanly possible and just a dumb expectation. It can't be a dirty hit and half a second from being clean. 

The cfl doesn't want to get rid of those hits. No other hit over the middle has been punished. Can you give one example of the cfl taking this action against hits over the middle? They sure didn't with the hit on Fajardo over the middle in week 2. 

In response to the first bold part, that is absolutely the expectation of every player where the QB is involved, so hardly dumb. As soon as the QB releases the ball (not a half second) the defensive player is required to let up and not drive through the tackle. And players know now that this is the rule (like it or not) and have adjusted, and so it is definitely humanly possible. And that expectation now carries on to receivers not to throw blind side blocks back towards the line of scrimmage on defensive backs who are in chase position on other receivers who have the ball, and to safeties looking to tee off on a defenceless receiver. And players have adjusted. 
 

To answer bold part #2, Taylor Loffler comes immediately to mind, as mentioned before. Can you name a hit over the middle on a receiver without the ball that knocked them out that wasn’t called in recent memory (after the automatic review rule change)? Don’t know which Fajardo hit you are referring to, but I’m guessing he had the ball in his hands and was running downfield. 
 

The video of the hit is here for people to judge how far away the ball was, where the contact was, and how defenceless the receiver was. Again, hate the rule if you want, but not the ruling.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/cfl/argos-beat-blue-bombers-first-game-back-bmo-field-nearly-two-years/

And for all saying “if it was a Bomber I’d have the same reaction” I remember the screaming when Keith Stokes got clotheslined (across the upper chest, not the neck) on a punt return near his goal line against Hamilton and fumbled away the winning score and the outrage over no penalty call where he got knocked out, so I don’t buy it when you now say “I’d be fine with it”. But it’s a silly question to begin with since we all will deny having a bias for our own team to not look hypocritical when or course we do. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by TrueBlue4ever

[JuranBoldenRules]

22 hours ago, wpgallday1960 said:

You can dispute the call made on Alexander but in the end it didn’t cost us any points, just time and field position. I thought the PI on the INT was iffy as was the incompletion on Adams.  The calls may not have been good but I don’t think it cost WBB the game.  Lack of execution was the main culprit, IMO.

Well that PI call directly led to 6 points where the margin was 7.  So if you think that’s not PI it alone had a huge effect on the outcome.  Yes if the Bombers played more than 5 minutes of that game it wouldn’t have been a loss.

13 hours ago, wbbfan said:

You don't have to play the ball. He didn't have an opportunity to play the ball either. 

You can't stop on a half seconds notice. That's not humanly possible and just a dumb expectation. It can't be a dirty hit and half a second from being clean. 

The cfl doesn't want to get rid of those hits. No other hit over the middle has been punished. Can you give one example of the cfl taking this action against hits over the middle? They sure didn't with the hit on Fajardo over the middle in week 2. 

It comes down to a choice by the receiver to not make an attempt at the ball to protect his ribs.  The ball was within his catch radius he just knew the safety was waiting.  I suppose DBs are supposed to guess in a split second as to what the receiver is going to choose to do, but you have to wonder how it can be expected that they should guess the receiver will choose not to attack the ball when that is the entire point of the game.

[wpgallday1960]

10 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Well that PI call directly led to 6 points where the margin was 7.  So if you think that’s not PI it alone had a huge effect on the outcome.  Yes if the Bombers played more than 5 minutes of that game it wouldn’t have been a loss.

It comes down to a choice by the receiver to not make an attempt at the ball to protect his ribs.  The ball was within his catch radius he just knew the safety was waiting.  I suppose DBs are supposed to guess in a split second as to what the receiver is going to choose to do, but you have to wonder how it can be expected that they should guess the receiver will choose not to attack the ball when that is the entire point of the game.

PI call was iffy, could have gone either way and it did cost us points.  I’m not of the opinion that thenPI call was blatantly bad and the Bombers were screwed.  Close calls like that happen all the time.

[blue85gold]

Anyone have a clip of the Alexander hit? Missed the second half and haven't seen it anywhere.

[ddanger]

On 2021-08-21 at 7:43 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

Reffing always gets blamed on a loss, and it almost never is the factor fans say it is. 
 

I will say this much, the Alexander roughing penalty was for a violent but not dirty hit. Caught him high with a forearm because he was going down. Should it be a penalty? I would say no, but the refs are going to call it because of the result and to avoid things spiralling out of control with players looking for retribution. May not be the letter of the law, but in the spirit of keeping the game clean, it is going to get called. And just a hunch, if Darvin Adams got crushed like that some here will call the same hit dirty. Uniform colour affects perceptions. Beyond that I think the refs have been directed to call the game tighter. The rough play on the Argos for the late hit out of bounds was pretty chintzy in its own right. And the late hit on the QB in last night’s Stamp-Als game was weak as well. I’d prefer a “let them play” approach but I sense that’s not the directive from the league office right now. 
 

The only weird call was the spearing. Rolled over the player on the tackle, but hardly led with the helmet like an arrow. Only one yard on the penalty so not a killer.

The pick was a push-off by Alford  the receiver went down pretty easy, but with how PI is called on today’s game, it was a penalty  

As for the “catch/no catch” plays, on Darvin Adams’ one, it looked like when he went down he rolled over top of the DB rather than hitting the ground, so in real time it looked like he did not survive contact. Might have been worth a challenge since the ground can’t cause a fumble. On the Argo RB non-catch, he caught it and was hit as he spun, so another bang-bang play. Refs were being consistent by calling both incomplete, but both hurt the Bombers since their catch/fumble went out of bounds and the Argo one would have been likely recovered by the Bombers (although a quick whistle negated that presumptive ruling). 

I was very disappointed with the call against BA. "Watch out for the safety!" But the thing I was most disappointed in was that the on-field refs didn't call that, the command centre did. The constant weakening of the authority of the onfield guys is awful. I really don't think it was the refs that cost us this game. Drops, poor tackling, inability to adjust and counter the Argo D.