3 stars and hh bluer than blue

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Here’s Loffler’s hit for comparison. Go to the 1:46:25 mark. 
 

I’ll let others decide, but to my mind saying that hit was late compared to Alexander’s and not even close to this situation is just not accurate. Same defenceless receiver (who in Loffler’s case got his hands on a playable ball) same head contact, penalty gets called. And Glen Suitor plainly says “in today’s game that’s going to be called”. 
 

As for the insults and “if you never played the game you are dumb”, not going to even bother dignifying that with a response. 

Lmao it's spearing. Loffler leads with the head and targets the head and hits later. Not even close to comparable. Ba made sure his head was clear. The ba play was also catchable and much faster. 

You don't have to have played not to be dumb but couch coaches have a particular inclination to have no understanding what is physically possible. Like stopping cold in a half second. 

 

26 minutes ago, Starman115 said:

The Loffler’s hit seen above is a helmet to helmet hit and a nasty one at that. IMO that's not only a penalty but a dirty hit too.

Yep. But why let facts get in the way. 

[Bubba Zanetti]

It was a forearm/shoulder to shoulder hit. Didnt lead with his head, and didnt hit Daniels in the head. Good hard hit. Shouldnt have been a penalty at all. They arnt playing patty-cake out there. Any hit that looks violent and a player appears hurt is an automatic flag nowadays.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bubba Zanetti

[Dr Zaius]

Scheifele'd him. Perfectly clean, but so hard that a penalty gets called based on result.

[ddanger]

8 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

It was premeditated. It was dangerous. It was dirty. It was penalized. I suspect that Alexander will be fined this week.

Yes the hit was penalized, and yes he's probably getting a fine. I don't believe it was premeditated at all. 

[wbbfan]

41 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

It was a forearm/shoulder to shoulder hit. Didnt lead with his head, and didnt hit Daniels in the head. Good hard hit. Shouldnt have been a penalty at all. They arnt playing patty-cake out there. Any hit that looks violent and a player appears hurt is an automatic flag nowadays.

This is how soccer has ended up the way it is too. Guys flop like they been struck by lightning because they know they can draw a penalty. Which is part of why it drives me mad. That and in this case you can see ba try soo hard to make sure it's clean and that he was composed and professional after. Mean while actual cheap shot artists are crack back blocking our guys and not getting flagged. 

If this was a standard action in the cfl simoni would've been out of the league in his second year. 

3 minutes ago, ddanger said:

Yes the hit was penalized, and yes he's probably getting a fine. I don't believe it was premeditated at all. 

The league should actually be aggressive with fines this year. Week 3 and we've seen soo much late pushing and shoving as well as dangerous blocks teams aren't bringing discipline so the league does. Obviously I don't think ba should be fined but 8 to 10 guys should be fined this week. 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

 

The whining about my negativity always starts when positrons know I'm right.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[Goalie]

BA was a body check. Just cuz Daniels head snaps back don't mean crap. That's what happens when a moving object meets a brick wall. Clean shoulder to shoulder hit that was a blink of an eye late

Scheifele comes to mind for sure minus the outrage from the Montreal Karen media 

[Booch]

On 2021-08-22 at 1:37 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

That type of hit is not acceptable in today’s game. If you look at the standard of roughing the passer today vs 10 or 20 years ago, we are approaching flag football status with them. And as for the dozens of hits like that, you rarely see a player knocked out from a hit. Wbbfan says Alexander got penalized for hitting too hard and he is bang on - but that is defined as a penalty these days, and rightly so given the concerns about concussions in football and possible liability for the league. 
 

I hear the critics saying “so players aren’t supposed to hit anymore?” and the answer is sliding towards “no they’re not, not like that”. League wants tackles and not kill shots, and have put rules in place like the no crack back block or blind side receiver block back towards the line of scrimmage or injury spotters review to keep this predatory hit out of the game. B*tch about football getting soft all you want, but don’t say it’s not a penalty. It wasn’t years ago, but it is now. And let’s get over the “They’re out to screw the Bombers with those calls” paranoia. The Toronto DB who got called for the late hit out of bounds was a pretty marginal penalty as well from a toughness or dirty play standpoint, but in today’s protective league it’s going to get called. 

was a clean hit..bang bang...and shoulder to upper torso...if the receiver had actually caught the ball, and got hit like that, fumbled and we recovered....would you still penalize, and if u actually watch BA was letting up and didnt drive through him...thankfully...Thats football, and if it happened to one of our guys I would have had no issue.

Not sure who said ball was 5 yards away...totally false, and also a player cannot stop on a dime...and from ball leaving the receiver's grasp, and the hit...milliseconds...you cant expect a player to not play full out 100 percent in fear of a crappy penalty call...if that was the case the quality of the game would be unwatchable with guys pussyfootin around.

[17to85]

Yeah the only maybe issue with that play is if the shoulder got head first. Otherwise that's just the safety making a play on the receiver coming across the middle. Things that used to be celebrated. 

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Booch said:

was a clean hit..bang bang...and shoulder to upper torso...if the receiver had actually caught the ball, and got hit like that, fumbled and we recovered....would you still penalize, and if u actually watch BA was letting up and didnt drive through him...thankfully...Thats football, and if it happened to one of our guys I would have had no issue.

Not sure who said ball was 5 yards away...totally false, and also a player cannot stop on a dime...and from ball leaving the receiver's grasp, and the hit...milliseconds...you cant expect a player to not play full out 100 percent in fear of a crappy penalty call...if that was the case the quality of the game would be unwatchable with guys pussyfootin around.

Daniels ran a route that cut into the middle & that's a dangerous play as that is where everyone is. He got lit up but it was NOT intentional. TBurg claimed the football was 5 yards away & the hit was "premeditated". 

[M.O.A.B.]

8 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Daniels ran a route that cut into the middle & that's a dangerous play as that is where everyone is. He got lit up but it was NOT intentional. TBurg claimed the football was 5 yards away & the hit was "premeditated". 

What, TBurg can read mind and intentions? 

[Jpan85]

Its 2021 those plays in today's guy are just going to be called its how it is its how it is going to be, I have gotten past being upset after hits like that are called.

[Mark F]

3down

"Dinwiddie didn’t get a chance to talk with Daniels, but felt he “probably” wasn’t going to be available to play for the Argos on Thursday, August 26 in Week 4 versus the Edmonton Elks.

There will be no further timeline provided on Daniels potential return until concussion protocols are completed."

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Mark F

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Daniels ran a route that cut into the middle & that's a dangerous play as that is where everyone is. He got lit up but it was NOT intentional. TBurg claimed the football was 5 yards away & the hit was "premeditated". 

 

1 hour ago, M.O.A.B. said:

What, TBurg can read mind and intentions? 

5 yards is a bit of an overstatement. I corrected it to past the receiver. It doesn't matter how many yards past. Past is past. If there's someone here who can go frame by frame and show where the ball is at the moment of contact, that'd be great.

It's about going for the big hit vs playing the ball & he was 100% going for the big hit. That's premeditation, not mind reading. When you do that in modern football, you better get your timing right. Too early and it's a penalty. Too late and it's a penalty. The Ref on the field in real time thought the timing was OK. The Refs in the Command center, with more time and more angles, thought it was late and they are allowed to overturn that call due to the rules. I agree with the command center. Most around here don't, because it cost us a penalty and kept one of their drives going. I suspect that they'd think differently if Adams was the one getting blown up, but fans around here say they wouldn't change their minds. I guess we'll have to revisit it when one of ours gets knocked out with a 'clean' hit.

This is the first time I can remember that the Command center over turned a missed call like this, but I expect it won't be the last. Coaches are going to have to teach DB's to tackle properly, to watch the ball, and to be under control, just like they taught the D lineman a few years back.

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, Mark F said:

3down

"Dinwiddie didn’t get a chance to talk with Daniels, but felt he “probably” wasn’t going to be available to play for the Argos on Thursday, August 26 in Week 4 versus the Edmonton Elks.

There will be no further timeline provided on Daniels potential return until concussion protocols are completed."

 

It's a shame he's hurt. I hope he's healthy and back soon. He's a hell of a player. 

[Dodge and Burn]

On 2021-08-23 at 5:04 PM, TBURGESS said:

You think I've been somehow waiting for 2 years for a specific play just so I can say it's a penalty? Wow, what a maroon!

It was premeditated because he targeted the receiver without knowing where the ball was. He was 100% going for the kill shot. If the ball wasn't past the receiver or the receiver had his hand on the ball, then it's a good play to remove the player from the ball, but that's not what happened.

It was dangerous and dirty because he lowered the boom on an unprotected player, knocking him out.

The whining about my negativity always starts when positrons know I'm right.

You get off on talking about your posts. Yeah you add some actual content. 

The amount you talk about yourself outweighs that by a large content. 

A troll in blue and gold toilet paper. 

[wbbfan]

22 minutes ago, Dodge and Burn said:

You get off on talking about your posts. Yeah you add some actual content. 

The amount you talk about yourself outweighs that by a large content. 

A troll in blue and gold toilet paper. 

I think I prefer training camp guy. He's atleast mildly entertaining. Nate too. Positrons when most people wanted a guy or two cut and a handful of roster changes. The cognitive dissonance is real. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

5 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

 

5 yards is a bit of an overstatement. I corrected it to past the receiver. It doesn't matter how many yards past. Past is past. If there's someone here who can go frame by frame and show where the ball is at the moment of contact, that'd be great.

When the ball goes over Daniels’ head he is at the Toronto 51 and Alexander is at the Toronto 54. When first contact is made by Alexander at Toronto’s 52, the ball hits the ground at the Winnipeg 52, so…….6 yards?

[Booch]

15 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

 

5 yards is a bit of an overstatement. I corrected it to past the receiver. It doesn't matter how many yards past. Past is past. If there's someone here who can go frame by frame and show where the ball is at the moment of contact, that'd be great.

It's about going for the big hit vs playing the ball & he was 100% going for the big hit. That's premeditation, not mind reading. When you do that in modern football, you better get your timing right. Too early and it's a penalty. Too late and it's a penalty. The Ref on the field in real time thought the timing was OK. The Refs in the Command center, with more time and more angles, thought it was late and they are allowed to overturn that call due to the rules. I agree with the command center. Most around here don't, because it cost us a penalty and kept one of their drives going. I suspect that they'd think differently if Adams was the one getting blown up, but fans around here say they wouldn't change their minds. I guess we'll have to revisit it when one of ours gets knocked out with a 'clean' hit.

This is the first time I can remember that the Command center over turned a missed call like this, but I expect it won't be the last. Coaches are going to have to teach DB's to tackle properly, to watch the ball, and to be under control, just like they taught the D lineman a few years back.

have u ever played football?...and realize u can't stop on a dime, or make an abrupt 90 degree turn?...you play the play....and shouldnt be penalized for it on a bang bang play...U can also see BA actually didn't fully follow through on that hit....used a perfect shoulder tackle, kept head and helmet out of it and didnt target the head...was a crap cheap call.

If the ball was jarred loose with the same hit, and a turnover resulted would the player be flagged for being too mean and tough??..gimme a break...thats football man...hard nosed football...these players know what they signed up for...

[Bigblue204]

42 minutes ago, Booch said:

have u ever played football?...and realize u can't stop on a dime, or make an abrupt 90 degree turn?...you play the play....and shouldnt be penalized for it on a bang bang play...U can also see BA actually didn't fully follow through on that hit....used a perfect shoulder tackle, kept head and helmet out of it and didnt target the head...was a crap cheap call.

If the ball was jarred loose with the same hit, and a turnover resulted would the player be flagged for being too mean and tough??..gimme a break...thats football man...hard nosed football...these players know what they signed up for...

Exactly. Things happen so fast you can't just stop and avoid things when you've committed. Arbuckle has as much blame to share are BA. Leading his receiver into the middle like that is always a bad idea.

The worst hit I've ever taken was in touch football. Coming across the middle I took a should to the chin and was seeing stars. I'm saying this because football is dangerous, even when ALL tackles are outlawed. You're still humans running around a field looking at a ball....**** is gonna happen.

I hope Daniels recovers. I don't think it was dirty or cheap and I dont think you can get rid of that type of thing in football.

[M.Silverback]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

have u ever played football?...and realize u can't stop on a dime, or make an abrupt 90 degree turn?...you play the play....and shouldnt be penalized for it on a bang bang play...U can also see BA actually didn't fully follow through on that hit....used a perfect shoulder tackle, kept head and helmet out of it and didnt target the head...was a crap cheap call.

If the ball was jarred loose with the same hit, and a turnover resulted would the player be flagged for being too mean and tough??..gimme a break...thats football man...hard nosed football...these players know what they signed up for...

I played safety, coach defense, and can 100% say when that type of play happened, vulnerable WR, there was some "intent" on my part to rock the WR. And it was a choice. Split second, but still a choice. Wrap up, proper tackle - or try to take someone's head off with my shoulder. 

And I know it's not popular to agree with TBurg on this forum, but he's right about D-linemen learning to let up because of rule changes, particularly in the NFL. Watch old NFL QB clips. Split second they let go of the ball they are f'ing rocked every time. Every NFL lineman now knows how to let up a bit when the ball is released. Wrap up, take them to the ground. Versus take their head off with your shoulder. So why can't a DB make a choice? Still hard contact, but he could have chosen a proper technique tackle, versus just a hockey shoulder pop to the head. 

And a hockey body check is not a "perfect shoulder tackle". That's terrible tackling technique overall. Where's the wrap up? Where's the getting low, between thighs and ribs and driving through the ball carrier? And if Alexander used proper tackling technique he may still have hurt Daniels - because football is, and should be a physical game - but probably wouldn't have given him a concussion. 

At the end of the day, not sure what we're debating. Penalty or not? No debate. As number one Keith Urban fan Suits said about the Loffler hit, "in today's game, that's going to be called". 

[TBURGESS]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

have u ever played football?...and realize u can't stop on a dime, or make an abrupt 90 degree turn?...you play the play....and shouldnt be penalized for it on a bang bang play...U can also see BA actually didn't fully follow through on that hit....used a perfect shoulder tackle, kept head and helmet out of it and didnt target the head...was a crap cheap call.

If the ball was jarred loose with the same hit, and a turnover resulted would the player be flagged for being too mean and tough??..gimme a break...thats football man...hard nosed football...these players know what they signed up for...

Yes I've played football and no, that doesn't matter one bit.

Who said 90 degree turn? No one! Slow down. Put your hands out. Don't lead with your shoulder. Any one of these would likely have meant no penalty. These are professional athletes with amazing reflexes not kids playing 6 man football or high schooler's playing 12 man. D Lineman can change direction. So can smaller, lighter DB's if they choose to. Alexander chose to go for the bit hit. If he wasn't under control or didn't know where the ball was, that's on him.

If he jarred the ball loose it wouldn't be a penalty and if my Auntie had balls she'd be my uncle. He didn't jar the ball loose because the receiver didn't have the ball. That's the point. He was late and no, it's not just me saying that, it's the command center. You obviously don't agree with them, and that's fine, but it's the way it is these days so you might as well get used to it.

[Booch]

24 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

I played safety, coach defense, and can 100% say when that type of play happened, vulnerable WR, there was some "intent" on my part to rock the WR. And it was a choice. Split second, but still a choice. Wrap up, proper tackle - or try to take someone's head off with my shoulder. 

And I know it's not popular to agree with TBurg on this forum, but he's right about D-linemen learning to let up because of rule changes, particularly in the NFL. Watch old NFL QB clips. Split second they let go of the ball they are f'ing rocked every time. Every NFL lineman now knows how to let up a bit when the ball is released. Wrap up, take them to the ground. Versus take their head off with your shoulder. So why can't a DB make a choice? Still hard contact, but he could have chosen a proper technique tackle, versus just a hockey shoulder pop to the head. 

And a hockey body check is not a "perfect shoulder tackle". That's terrible tackling technique overall. Where's the wrap up? Where's the getting low, between thighs and ribs and driving through the ball carrier? And if Alexander used proper tackling technique he may still have hurt Daniels - because football is, and should be a physical game - but probably wouldn't have given him a concussion. 

At the end of the day, not sure what we're debating. Penalty or not? No debate. As number one Keith Urban fan Suits said about the Loffler hit, "in today's game, that's going to be called". 

By shoulder i was meaning not rocking his chin with his helmet....and thanks for the tips but pretty sure I have a good handle on football trechniques and tackling..and coach and train as well, and at huger level...my point was he wasn't malicious or dirty, and didn't intend to injure...and there was zero time to let up completely..and if u watch...he did try to ease off

[Jpan85]

I don't think it was a dirty hit but not also not shocked it was flagged. That's a call that is going to be made in today's environment.

[M.Silverback]

17 minutes ago, Booch said:

By shoulder i was meaning not rocking his chin with his helmet....and thanks for the tips but pretty sure I have a good handle on football trechniques and tackling..and coach and train as well, and at huger level...my point was he wasn't malicious or dirty, and didn't intend to injure...and there was zero time to let up completely..and if u watch...he did try to ease off

I believe that you coach and train at a higher level than I do. And that you understand tackling technique more than I do. So, you know more than I do how hard it is to teach young players to use proper technique, especially when they see pros not doing it. That wasn't a good tackle. Kudos for keeping his head out of it - that would be just stupid, especially from a pro. 

Agree, Alexander is not a malicious, dirty player. The play ... let's agree that while he didn't want to injure the WR, but did choose to rock him. And not sure he let up. He put his hands in the air after to act like he let up, try to avoid a penalty. 

And my perspective on plays like this, especially from a player who plays the right way like Alexander, is that it happens. But, it also comes with consequences - penalty, fine, etc. And if you keep doing those types of plays you turn into a player that plays the wrong way, and costs your team.