Week 10 - Non-Champ Edition

[wbbfan]

6 minutes ago, Noeller said:

if there was a stadium capable of hosting it, it might be interesting to try some games out there, just to see if it'd work. Like Mississauga or something.....just test it out with a game here and there, and see what the response is like. 

I would think the best option would be to double in a Usports venue and upgrade the seating and stuff. 

 

4 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Paging Bluto ....  he would know best...

QFT

Just now, M.Silverback said:

Yeah, GTA suburb might work - Brampton, Mississauga, Oshawa. I was thinking further out - Guelph, Kitchener, London - where youth, high school, Usport football is popular.

TSN thing - You're right, at this point maybe they don't really care if there's a team in Toronto or not given where their viewers come from. Plus, we're in a new era. Might be other options if the CFL broadcast rights went to market now. Streaming services like DAZN or others; maybe Sportsnet; maybe some combination of local and national broadcast partners? Seems like the big sports - NFL, NBA - are not worried at all when broadcast rights are up, not just because they're so popular, but because they know there's so many options now sniffing around - Apple TV; Facebook; Amazon ... - have all talked about acquiring the broadcast rights to a major sport. 

I think if you get into one of the closer suburbs, you'd have a tremendous ability to draw from those stronger outlier communities. The difference in driving to brampton vs driving to the stadium in toronto is huge. (worst city to drive in with in country wide imo) 

The online streaming is a good point too. I could see selling domestic rights to a SN type, and really going forward trying to focus on getting a strong streaming partner. I mean thats how I watch I stream on TSN. I know a LOT of expats who are constantly trying to figure out ways to watch from their new homes. + you could tap into a bit of the global market. Im sure a bunch of germans would love to watch hansen play .

 

[M.Silverback]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

I would think the best option would be to double in a Usports venue and upgrade the seating and stuff. 

 

QFT

I think if you get into one of the closer suburbs, you'd have a tremendous ability to draw from those stronger outlier communities. The difference in driving to brampton vs driving to the stadium in toronto is huge. (worst city to drive in with in country wide imo) 

The online streaming is a good point too. I could see selling domestic rights to a SN type, and really going forward trying to focus on getting a strong streaming partner. I mean thats how I watch I stream on TSN. I know a LOT of expats who are constantly trying to figure out ways to watch from their new homes. + you could tap into a bit of the global market. Im sure a bunch of germans would love to watch hansen play .

 

Exactly! I stream every sport I watch now - Jets, Bombers, Vikings, USports football. Some are from providers like TSN, but, I don't have cable. So I'd buy the streaming package from anywhere.

And your Hansen "bunch of Germans" comment - so true, and made me laugh out loud. Well done! You might be Randy Ambrosie though. 

[JCon]

There's not a lot stadiums that could host CFL games in the GTA.  York Lions (university stadium) seats 4,000 but has a big track around it. Less than ideal. 

Short of building a new stadium north of the 401, I don't see many options, that make sense. And, no one is building a stadium for the Argos. 

 

Guelph hosted the TiCats games when TH Field was being built. But, are Argo fans who don't want to go to BMO willing to drive to Guelph? I don't think so. 

[Geebrr]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

There's not a lot stadiums that could host CFL games in the GTA.  York Lions (university stadium) seats 4,000 but has a big track around it. Less than ideal. 

Short of building a new stadium north of the 401, I don't see many options, that make sense. And, no one is building a stadium for the Argos. 

 

Guelph hosted the TiCats games when TH Field was being built. But, are Argo fans who don't want to go to BMO willing to drive to Guelph? I don't think so. 

Yeah it would probably require some municipality in these COVID times to make a financial commitment which seems unlikely. 

 

[wbbfan]

Just now, M.Silverback said:

Exactly! I stream every sport I watch now - Jets, Bombers, Vikings, USports football. Some are from providers like TSN, but, I don't have cable. So I'd buy the streaming package from anywhere.

And your Hansen "bunch of Germans" comment - so true, and made me laugh out loud. Well done! You might be Randy Ambrosie though. 

Oh boy as if the rider fans didnt dislike me enough already, now speedflex will hunt me too since my secret is out! 😆 jk. 

Just now, JCon said:

There's not a lot stadiums that could host CFL games in the GTA.  York Lions (university stadium) seats 4,000 but has a big track around it. Less than ideal. 

Short of building a new stadium north of the 401, I don't see many options, that make sense. And, no one is building a stadium for the Argos. 

 

Guelph hosted the TiCats games when TH Field was being built. But, are Argo fans who don't want to go to BMO willing to drive to Guelph? I don't think so. 

I wouldnt imagine that they have a 10 or 20k cap stadium. I think the best hope would be to find a good location with an existing field and rebuild the stands. It doesnt need to be a 50k stadium, maybe 20k range like the als did for soo long would be good as long as it had room for expansion. 

Problem is, there are no argo fans. Its not the unwillingness to travel imo, its the general lack of any interest in the argos. 

[JCon]

Just now, Geebrr said:

Yeah it would probably require some municipality in these COVID times to make a financial commitment which seems unlikely. 

 

It would be quite rich for MLSE to go to the City of Toronto for money when they own a relatively new stadium in BMO. Plus, BMO is where they would want the GC, anyhow.

They just have to invest in the team off the field. 

[Geebrr]

4 minutes ago, JCon said:

It would be quite rich for MLSE to go to the City of Toronto for money when they own a relatively new stadium in BMO. Plus, BMO is where they would want the GC, anyhow.

They just have to invest in the team off the field. 

Yeah that isn't happening. Was thinking somewhere like Guelph or Kitchener or wherever. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Geebrr

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, JCon said:

It would be quite rich for MLSE to go to the City of Toronto for money when they own a relatively new stadium in BMO. Plus, BMO is where they would want the GC, anyhow.

They just have to invest in the team off the field. 

They clearly arent gonna invest in the team as is. I think its a bad situation all in all. We might well see the argos exodus to the XFL, if the XFL launches. 

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Ain't no oil money anymore.

Truth. People don't have the money anymore. Companies don't have the money for corporate tickets. Tens of thousands of people have been laid off. Ticket prices are too high.

[SpeedFlex27]

42 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

Yeah, GTA suburb might work - Brampton, Mississauga, Oshawa. I was thinking further out - Guelph, Kitchener, London - where youth, high school, Usport football is popular.

TSN thing - You're right, at this point maybe they don't really care if there's a team in Toronto or not given where their viewers come from. Plus, we're in a new era. Might be other options if the CFL broadcast rights went to market now. Streaming services like DAZN or others; maybe Sportsnet; maybe some combination of local and national broadcast partners? Seems like the big sports - NFL, NBA - are not worried at all when broadcast rights are up, not just because they're so popular, but because they know there's so many options now sniffing around - Apple TV; Facebook; Amazon ... - have all talked about acquiring the broadcast rights to a major sport. 

We're talking a Commissioner in his 60's here... Like me. We don't understand all these new revenue streams. The most savy Commish we had was Mark Cohon. He was plugged in to marketing the CFL & would understand these new platforms. He would be a better leader than Ambrosie is. Too bad we can't get him back. 

[Jpan85]

25k stadium like Hamilton’s out in suburbs see if the CPL team would also be a tenant. 

[SpeedFlex27]

16 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

They clearly arent gonna invest in the team as is. I think its a bad situation all in all. We might well see the argos exodus to the XFL, if the XFL launches. 

Initially crowds would be good but would fall off. I remember the WLAF's Montreal Machine. First game they drew 55000 to their opening home game. By season's end they were barely drawing 10000. All the NA teams eventually moved to Europe to become NFL Europa. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

We're talking a Commissioner in his 60's here... Like me. We don't understand all these new revenue streams. The most savy Commish we had was Mark Cohon. He was plugged in to marketing the CFL & would understand these new platforms. He would be a better leader than Ambrosie is. Too bad we can't get him back. 

QFT. The cfl would do very well to throw every thing and the kitchen sink at cohon. That guy was phenomenal. Or atleast look for some one with a similar skill set. Ambrosie seems like a lazy hire at best. 

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Initially crowds would be good but would fall off. I remember the WLAF's Montreal Machine. First game they drew 55000 to their opening home game. By season's end they were barely drawing 10000. All the NA teams eventually moved to Europe to become NFL Europa. 

Yep, and even then I dont know if they'd get 35k. Not to mention the XFL track record of sustainability is piss poor. 

I also think it is very likely that with the centralized ownership that it will never equal the CFL in terms of quality of play and player. That said, leagues like that do recirculate a lot of talent and help development for the CFL and NFL. The problem is the current spring league variants have been very low quality ball. Border line semi pro at best imo. And if the XFL stays at that level of sub CFL talent, well Its gonna get real ugly real fast for the argos. 

[Super Duper Negatron]

I don't like Dave Naylor implying the league somehow missed out based on a tweeted photo of the Rock holding a pencil on a private jet.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I don't like Dave Naylor implying the league somehow missed out based on a tweeted photo of the Rock holding a pencil on a private jet.

Dave Naylor, like most other TSN talking heads, are trying to convince us that the CFL cannot stand on its own. It's been his mission, since the XFL-CFL talks started to get the leagues to merge. 

[M.O.A.B.]

He is after the interest of his station - TSN. 

[JCon]

Just now, M.O.A.B. said:

He is after the interest of his station - TSN. 

He's after the interest of Dave Naylor, which happens to align with TSN. He thinks he'll be a big fish in a merger. 

[JCon]

It's doubly worse because Bell owns MLSE (with Rogers) and TSN.

[M.Silverback]

37 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Initially crowds would be good but would fall off. I remember the WLAF's Montreal Machine. First game they drew 55000 to their opening home game. By season's end they were barely drawing 10000. All the NA teams eventually moved to Europe to become NFL Europa. 

Yeah, I'm really doubtful that Toronto fans would get behind the XFL. NFL, they might. I was surprised when I lived there how popular the Bills were, and how many would travel down to Bills games. Plus, NFL is big time. Toronto supports big time sports. Toronto FC - MLS - just on the edge of big time, so they are now getting support.

Either way, how long can you keep a team at BMO Stadium drawing 6000 fans a game? And where does it stop? 1000 fans a game? I went to a McGill game a few weeks ago - 3500 fans. 

I think the CFL has to consider a relocation. At least somewhere else in the GTA. 

[JCon]

Just promote them. Try something. Kids go free with paying adults. I don't like giving away tickets but we need some youth in TO to get interested. 

Or, try to get the young adults interested by making it a party. 

 

I was reading TFC fans complaining about the lines from the CFL on field, which is a totally legit complaint, but it's not the reason TFC has such poor crowds this year. The product is terrible and Torontonians are not interested in terrible teams. Except the Leafs, of course. 

Blue Jays are popular again because they're good. 

[wbbfan]

17 minutes ago, JCon said:

Dave Naylor, like most other TSN talking heads, are trying to convince us that the CFL cannot stand on its own. It's been his mission, since the XFL-CFL talks started to get the leagues to merge. 

Its a classic attempt to destabilize and invoke fear to force a new leadership/ideal into power. 

20 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I don't like Dave Naylor implying the league somehow missed out based on a tweeted photo of the Rock holding a pencil on a private jet.

Its iirc 5 monthes till kick off 2022 for them. They have no players or coaches under contract, and no longer have the TV deal. They are in a worse position than the XFL 2.0 at this point. Much worse. 

4 minutes ago, JCon said:

It's doubly worse because Bell owns MLSE (with Rogers) and TSN.

I know rogers has the majority stake aprox any way, what % does tsn hold? Such a dumb ownership situation. 

Just now, JCon said:

Just promote them. Try something. Kids go free with paying adults. I don't like giving away tickets but we need some youth in TO to get interested. 

Or, try to get the young adults interested by making it a party. 

 

I was reading TFC fans complaining about the lines from the CFL on field, which is a totally legit complaint, but it's not the reason TFC has such poor crowds this year. The product is terrible and Torontonians are not interested in terrible teams. Except the Leafs, of course. 

Blue Jays are popular again because they're good. 

I think we are past that point. The blue jays even when they've been bad were a decent draw. The raptors were a great draw during the bad eras. Its not strictly product related. The argos arent a terrible team this year. When they last won the cup they couldnt draw worth a damn either. 

[M.Silverback]

19 minutes ago, JCon said:

Just promote them. Try something. Kids go free with paying adults. I don't like giving away tickets but we need some youth in TO to get interested. 

11 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I think we are past that point. The blue jays even when they've been bad were a decent draw. The raptors were a great draw during the bad eras. Its not strictly product related. The argos arent a terrible team this year. When they last won the cup they couldnt draw worth a damn either. 

 

You're both right. They currently do nothing to promote the Argos, and could do a lot because they're MLSE. And, I think it's too late. The Argos are so far down the pecking order, I can't see promotion as a way to get fans to watch them at BMO. Too bad. It's a nice venue. I think the only option is some type of relocation in GTA, Southern Ontario, and then promote the sh&t out of the team in that area. 

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Truth. People don't have the money anymore. Companies don't have the money for corporate tickets. Tens of thousands of people have been laid off. Ticket prices are too high.

Yup I've been saying for years that the CFL is pricing itself out of its own market.

[Wideleft]

24 minutes ago, JCon said:

Just promote them. Try something. Kids go free with paying adults. I don't like giving away tickets but we need some youth in TO to get interested. 

Or, try to get the young adults interested by making it a party. 

 

I was reading TFC fans complaining about the lines from the CFL on field, which is a totally legit complaint, but it's not the reason TFC has such poor crowds this year. The product is terrible and Torontonians are not interested in terrible teams. Except the Leafs, of course. 

Blue Jays are popular again because they're good. 

Promotion and marketing is absolutely the key, but it won't be an instant fix by any means.  Not only do you need to hold the fans you have (and their kids), you need to attract a whole new and disparate type of crowd.  The CFL fan-base is lily-white and that needs to change quickly.

[rebusrankin]

Toronto tends to support winners except for the Leafs who could fill a 75000 seat rink. Raptors maybe as well as they really seemed to have marketed that club well and built up a base.

For the Argos, lower tickets, try to involve and build a base with kids, better marketing.