Week 10 - Non-Champ Edition

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, JCon said:

Answer: Probably not. 

Why?

[Eternal optimist]

21 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Why?

I would think they'd want to give a newer, younger guy a shot. Roosevelt is 33. His last +1000 yard season was 2017.

23 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Why?

I would think they'd want to give a newer, younger guy a shot. Roosevelt is 33. His last +1000 yard season was 2017.

[JCon]

30 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Why?

Seems like they like McKnight more. I didn't see anything in the games he played but I'll trust the scouts and coaching staff on this. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Yeah, pricing is an issue, I think. CFL is not sexy right now and the Argos are terrible. 

Pricing is not that outlandish. Comparable in lower bowl centre field to Bomber games. And there are available lower bowl seats between the 25 and 35 yard lines for as low as $43.  Optically, one of the problems is that the fans are seated largely behind the benches, while the cameras are pointed at the opposite side where there are fewer fans, so the stadium looks even more empty than it is (but make no mistake, it is not near full on the non-televised side either). 
My brother lives in Toronto and one big thing he says is the almost total lack of advertising and PR the Argo owners put into the team. No press means no buzz, and they are easily forgotten with everything else getting ink in Toronto. And Toronto still joneses for the NFL, as do a number of media members (look no further than Dave Naylor’s 4 down XFL cheering when those talks happened earlier). On Sportsnet tonight, the Argo win is behind 10 other stories, only 3 of which are live-game stories (one baseball and two pre-season hockey - specifically the Jets win and Ryan Reaves getting hurt). Even the NBA and soccer rate ahead of the game, and in their overall menu, CFL is behind the big 4, soccer and auto racing in hierarchy (lumped in the “other sports” category). TSN, the host broadcaster, at least has tonight’s game as its banner headline, and CFL is ranked only behind the NHL in hierarchy right now (but I have seen it as low as 8th in the off-season). 

Edited October 7, 2021 by TrueBlue4ever

[bb1]

38 minutes ago, JCon said:

Seems like they like McKnight more. I didn't see anything in the games he played but I'll trust the scouts and coaching staff on this. 

Yeah i guess but they saw McKnight for 3 games...why bring in Roosevelt?  I guess Roosevelt is on his way out...

[SpeedFlex27]

56 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Pricing is not that outlandish. Comparable in lower bowl centre field to Bomber games. And there are available lower bowl seats between the 25 and 35 yard lines for as low as $43.  Optically, one of the problems is that the fans are seated largely behind the benches, while the cameras are pointed at the opposite side where there are fewer fans, so the stadium looks even more empty than it is (but make no mistake, it is not near full on the non-televised side either). 
My brother lives in Toronto and one big thing he says is the almost total lack of advertising and PR the Argo owners put into the team. No press means no buzz, and they are easily forgotten with everything else getting ink in Toronto. And Toronto still joneses for the NFL, as do a number of media members (look no further than Dave Naylor’s 4 down XFL cheering when those talks happened earlier). On Sportsnet tonight, the Argo win is behind 10 other stories, only 3 of which are live-game stories (one baseball and two pre-season hockey - specifically the Jets win and Ryan Reaves getting hurt). Even the NBA and soccer rate ahead of the game, and in their overall menu, CFL is behind the big 4, soccer and auto racing in hierarchy (lumped in the “other sports” category). TSN, the host broadcaster, at least has tonight’s game as its banner headline, and CFL is ranked only behind the NHL in hierarchy right now (but I have seen it as low as 8th in the off-season). 

When the Stamps charge $80 for seats on the 35 yard line it's the reason people don't buy those seats.  

Edited October 7, 2021 by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

8 hours ago, bb1 said:

Yeah i guess but they saw McKnight for 3 games...why bring in Roosevelt?  I guess Roosevelt is on his way out...

This is the curious point. They have very much the same skill set and limitations. But Mcknight is young and has a lot of football ahead of him. If roosevelt is still behind after a month +, its a bad sign. Maybe they feel like they cant get another vet wr, or good nfl cut up in time and want the extra body for a worst case scenario? 

9 hours ago, JCon said:

Seems like they like McKnight more. I didn't see anything in the games he played but I'll trust the scouts and coaching staff on this. 

I trust out scouting 100%. But we make some funny decisions with over the hill vets every year. This is the best year for that by far though. 

[JCon]

Part of the problem in Toronto is that MLSE doesn't want to own a team in the CFL. And, TSN really wants the XFL and CFL to merge. 

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

10 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

When the Stamps charge $80 for seats on the 35 yard line it's the reason people don't buy those seats.  

If wholesale Winnipeg can afford those prices, then Calgary and all their new oil money can afford it. This is the cost of sports today. 

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If wholesale Winnipeg can afford those prices, then Calgary and all their new oil money can afford it. This is the cost of sports today. 

Ain't no oil money anymore.

[Geebrr]

1 minute ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If wholesale Winnipeg can afford those prices, then Calgary and all their new oil money can afford it. This is the cost of sports today. 

Winnipeg is no more wholesale than anywhere else on the Prairies or Ottawa or Hamilton.

Jets  games are proof, they are among the most expensive in the league.

[TrueBlue4ever]

24 minutes ago, JCon said:

Part of the problem in Toronto is that MLSE doesn't want to own a team in the CFL. And, TSN really wants the XFL and CFL to merge. 

 

Sometimes It feels like the Toronto attitude is “if the CFL doesn’t work in Toronto, then it won’t work anywhere, so we need to blow up the model and become NFL North”, which by all perceptions is what they really pine for. Maybe instead of doubting the product, look to places like Winnipeg and Saskatchewan and Montreal in its revival days and Calgary and Edmonton and figure out why it succeeds there and copy that, instead of assuming that if they can’t make it work, it’s everyone else who is the problem. 
 

So looking for opinions on this. Why does the CFL work so well in some markets and so badly in others? Do the largest cities just have too many other options for there to be interest, while the smaller cities where it’s the only game in town make it more attractive? Should the league just re-locate to smaller centres? Could those smaller places afford stadiums? Does the league need to slash budgets to one third of what they are, and is that feasible?
 

Edited October 7, 2021 by TrueBlue4ever

[TBURGESS]

MOS saying that Roosevelt's done great things in the league and he's progressing is like other coaches saying, he's done.

If Roosevelt can't beat out McKnight by now, it's time for the window or aisle seat talk.

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

MOS saying that Roosevelt's done great things in the league and he's progressing is like other coaches saying, he's done.

If Roosevelt can't beat out McKnight by now, it's time for the window or aisle seat talk.

If he is content to sit on the practice roster for now, keep him here for depth until you absolutely need the roster space. If he is unhappy in that role then the hard talk about his future can happen. 

[M.O.A.B.]

Oakman and Nevis will be a nightmare match-up for opposing OL.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Sometimes It feels like the Toronto attitude is “if the CFL doesn’t work in Toronto, then it won’t work anywhere, so we need to blow up the model and become NFL North”, which by all perceptions is what they really pine for. Maybe instead of doubting the product, look to places like Winnipeg and Saskatchewan and Montreal in its revival days and Calgary and Edmonton and figure out why it succeeds there and copy that, instead of assuming that if they can’t make it work, it’s everyone else who is the problem. 
 

So looking for opinions on this. Why does the CFL work so well in some markets and so badly in others? Do the largest cities just have too many other options for there to be interest, while the smaller cities where it’s the only game in town make it more attractive? Should the league just re-locate to smaller centres? Could those smaller places afford stadiums? Does the league need to slash budgets to one third of what they are, and is that feasible?
 

I don't know of any other Canadian city that has NBA, NHL, MLB and CFL and... soccer? That is a lot of entertainment worth a lot of cash... CFL, just low on the totem.

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, JCon said:

Part of the problem in Toronto is that MLSE doesn't want to own a team in the CFL. And, TSN really wants the XFL and CFL to merge. 

 

Yeah its really strange, I dont know why they bought the argos in the first place. We've heard extensively from the new owners in mtl and bc about how they are working to rebuild the fan base. MLSE hasnt said jack. 

46 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I don't know of any other Canadian city that has NBA, NHL, MLB and CFL and... soccer? That is a lot of entertainment worth a lot of cash... CFL, just low on the totem.

They also have 6 million people in the GTA. And not many of those sports over lap. Toronto has no issues with drawing fans to other entertainment events either. BC doesnt have the NBA, or MLB drawing against the lions. 

If the jays moved a minor league affiliate to toronto, they would do great. Youd be amazed at how many jays fans went from TO to buffalo to watch the AAA team play pre covid. 

1 hour ago, M.O.A.B. said:

Oakman and Nevis will be a nightmare match-up for opposing OL.

Thats a crazy good combination indeed. Good luck running up the middle on those guys now. I expect to see a surge in oakmans sack production too. Assuming drake is fairly close to 100% in health and has the rust shaken off. 

I didnt get the watch the game last night, was shane ray invisible again or did he get any pressures?

[JCon]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

Yeah its really strange, I dont know why they bought the argos in the first place. We've heard extensively from the new owners in mtl and bc about how they are working to rebuild the fan base. MLSE hasnt said jack. 

It was cheap and it helped "fill" BMO on non-MLS dates. So, on one hand, it makes sense, but they've done nothing, absolutely nothing, to promote or improve the club off the field. 

I think they're happy they got Pinball to take care of everything on the field and are probably satisfied there. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by JCon

[wbbfan]

Just now, JCon said:

It was cheap and it help "fill" BMO on non-MLS dates. So, on one hand, it makes sense, but they've done nothing, absolutely nothing, to promote or improve the club off the field. 

I think they're happy they got Pinball to take care of everything on the field and are probably satisfied there. 

I would think so, the on the field product turn around has been really good considering the hot mess they were. They are on track to be a really good team next year if they can get consistent QBing. 

 Idk its not like the argos were gonna move to another field what option did they have? I hate the situation with fan support in TO. 

[M.Silverback]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Sometimes It feels like the Toronto attitude is “if the CFL doesn’t work in Toronto, then it won’t work anywhere, so we need to blow up the model and become NFL North”, which by all perceptions is what they really pine for. Maybe instead of doubting the product, look to places like Winnipeg and Saskatchewan and Montreal in its revival days and Calgary and Edmonton and figure out why it succeeds there and copy that, instead of assuming that if they can’t make it work, it’s everyone else who is the problem. 
 

So looking for opinions on this. Why does the CFL work so well in some markets and so badly in others? Do the largest cities just have too many other options for there to be interest, while the smaller cities where it’s the only game in town make it more attractive? Should the league just re-locate to smaller centres? Could those smaller places afford stadiums? Does the league need to slash budgets to one third of what they are, and is that feasible?
 

Great points. Maybe Toronto should relocate. Problem is does TSN still care about the CFL as much with no team in Toronto? They should, their primary viewership are not from the GTA. But, I'd be worried they'd pull the plug, and I don't know who would step in. Perhaps if they relocated to somewhere else in Southern Ontario - London, Kitchener, Guelph, Windsor ...? Not saying they'd get Bombers or Riders numbers, but could you get 15,000 out per game at a reasonable ticket price? Probably. And still have TSN interested - Hamilton vs _______ rivalry? 

No easy solutions. I lived in Toronto for years, and no one I knew talked about the Argos. Including football fans. The Bills were more popular. 

 

[Geebrr]

14 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

Great points. Maybe Toronto should relocate. Problem is does TSN still care about the CFL as much with no team in Toronto? They should, their primary viewership are not from the GTA. But, I'd be worried they'd pull the plug, and I don't know who would step in. Perhaps if they relocated to somewhere else in Southern Ontario - London, Kitchener, Guelph, Windsor ...? Not saying they'd get Bombers or Riders numbers, but could you get 15,000 out per game at a reasonable ticket price? Probably. And still have TSN interested - Hamilton vs _______ rivalry? 

No easy solutions. I lived in Toronto for years, and no one I knew talked about the Argos. Including football fans. The Bills were more popular. 

 

One of my best friends lives there and says you just would not even know they exist or when the games are.

Nobody talks about them.

Soccer has a niche market due to strong multiculturalism in that city. 

CFL is just invisible. Putting it in a smaller GTA adjacent community and calling it Toronto may work better.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Geebrr

[wbbfan]

Just now, M.Silverback said:

Great points. Maybe Toronto should relocate. Problem is does TSN still care about the CFL as much with no team in Toronto? They should, their primary viewership are not from the GTA. But, I'd be worried they'd pull the plug, and I don't know who would step in. Perhaps if they relocated to somewhere else in Southern Ontario - London, Kitchener, Guelph, Windsor ...? Not saying they'd get Bombers or Riders numbers, but could you get 15,000 out per game at a reasonable ticket price? Probably. And still have TSN interested - Hamilton vs _______ rivalry? 

No easy solutions. I lived in Toronto for years, and no one I knew talked about the Argos. Including football fans. The Bills were more popular. 

 

Ive wondered about moving the argos to some fringe area of the GTA where they could garner more of a small market interest. Id still call em the argos and toronto too. 

If the CFL dropped toronto, I could see tsn reeling a bit from the bragging rights of average market size etc. But to be honest, the CFLs draw is 3/4 from the west. If the CFL went from TSN to Sportsnet it could actually be an improvement. A big portion of whats broken with marketing to a younger audience is on the TSN side. Old ass reporters who talk over the game, cameras not showing whats actually going on, piss poor quality panels and booth combinations, and every year a bunch of hokey pop country crap forced down our throats. I know sportsnet and the score are toronto based too, but what do those channels actually have exclusive rights to any more? 

[Noeller]

if there was a stadium capable of hosting it, it might be interesting to try some games out there, just to see if it'd work. Like Mississauga or something.....just test it out with a game here and there, and see what the response is like. 

[Brandon]

Paging Bluto ....  he would know best...

[M.Silverback]

57 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Ive wondered about moving the argos to some fringe area of the GTA where they could garner more of a small market interest. Id still call em the argos and toronto too. 

If the CFL dropped toronto, I could see tsn reeling a bit from the bragging rights of average market size etc. But to be honest, the CFLs draw is 3/4 from the west. If the CFL went from TSN to Sportsnet it could actually be an improvement. A big portion of whats broken with marketing to a younger audience is on the TSN side. Old ass reporters who talk over the game, cameras not showing whats actually going on, piss poor quality panels and booth combinations, and every year a bunch of hokey pop country crap forced down our throats. I know sportsnet and the score are toronto based too, but what do those channels actually have exclusive rights to any more? 

Yeah, GTA suburb might work - Brampton, Mississauga, Oshawa. I was thinking further out - Guelph, Kitchener, London - where youth, high school, Usport football is popular.

TSN thing - You're right, at this point maybe they don't really care if there's a team in Toronto or not given where their viewers come from. Plus, we're in a new era. Might be other options if the CFL broadcast rights went to market now. Streaming services like DAZN or others; maybe Sportsnet; maybe some combination of local and national broadcast partners? Seems like the big sports - NFL, NBA - are not worried at all when broadcast rights are up, not just because they're so popular, but because they know there's so many options now sniffing around - Apple TV; Facebook; Amazon ... - have all talked about acquiring the broadcast rights to a major sport.