Vaccine Debate

[Tiny759]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:06 PM, blue_gold_84 said:

Oh, I didn't know speeding was a contagious novel virus.

Expand  

Never said it was? 

[blue_gold_84]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:21 PM, Super Duper Negatron said:

Don't like the title of this thread. "Debate" implies there are two arguable sides.

Expand  

This. You either understand proven science or you're an uninformed idiot.

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:24 PM, Tiny759 said:

Never said it was? 

Expand  

Then why mention it? It's a nonsensical false equivalency.

[Noeller]

I just can't get over the number of stupid people that are out there...and in here. Incredible. If you don't get vaccinated, for the greater good of society, you're both a moron and incredibly selfish. It's inarguable. Science always wins.

[Tiny759]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:25 PM, blue_gold_84 said:

This. You either understand proven science or you're an uninformed idiot.

Then why mention it? It's a nonsensical false equivalency.

Expand  

 

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:25 PM, blue_gold_84 said:

 

 

Then why mention it? It's a nonsensical false equivalency.

Expand  

I think you need to re look at what we were talking about and look at the point I was making 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Tiny759

[JCon]

 

 

Science matters. 

[CodyT]

  On 2021-12-08 at 11:22 AM, MOBomberFan said:

Here is a credible source from ******* rumble.com lmfao where do you go when you are censored on facebook and YouTube and Parler gets shut down... rumble.com

Expand  

Well he is a practicing doctor. 30  + years. It was removed from youtibe yes.

Im not anti vaccination.  What he says is sensible. Many of his patients were getting sick from the vaccine. He also talks about mandating kids to get the vaccine, that they are at such a low risk its actually unethical to have a perfectly healthy child get this specific jab.

The guys not a conspiracy crazed person. Hes not anti vaccination either. Just has some concerns that he brings to light.

I love how if you bring up any skepticism than your instantly labelled crazy or a conspiracy theorist. 

[Rich]

If you think this topic is not worth debating then you are just as bad as people who won't get vaccinated.

Do you care about being "right" and simply shaming and calling other people out.  Or do you actually care about societal impact like you claim and do what you can to convince people to being vaccinated.

Shutting them out, calling them names, and similar tactics will only force them to dig into their beliefs deeper.

[MOBomberFan]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:33 PM, CodyT said:

The guys not a conspiracy crazed person. Hes not anti vaccination either. Just has some concerns that he brings to light.

Expand  

He said over 60% of people who received the vaccination experienced blood clots.

[CodyT]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:37 PM, MOBomberFan said:

He said over 60% of people who received the vaccination experienced blood clots.

Expand  

Im glad you watched this. I believe he was refering to just his patients but I could be wrong.

 

Does none of what he says seem credible to you?

[Tiny759]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:36 PM, Rich said:

If you think this topic is not worth debating then you are just as bad as people who won't get vaccinated.

Do you care about being "right" and simply shaming and calling other people out.  Or do you actually care about societal impact like you claim and do what you can to convince people to being vaccinated.

Shutting them out, calling them names, and similar tactics will only force them to dig into their beliefs deeper.

Expand  

This 100%

[CodyT]

  On 2021-12-08 at 3:24 PM, Nolby said:

I don't know how old you are but the point of getting vaxxed is obviously not catching it yourself but also being a carrier without you knowing it and maybe passing it on to someone who is 66 years old or someone very young. Those who think this is just a science experiment are probably the ones that found some meme on the internet trying to state "facts" that attempt to make the vaccine look like a joke.

The covid shot wasn't just some fluids put together in a garage without thinking. Thousands and thousands and thousands of doctors alllllllllllllllllllll came to the same concluding formula with science,with some of the smartest brains on the planet and then it was deemed safe by government with other head doctors for the public.

Expand  

Yes, I agree. Like I said before and after getting called an idiot 50x, I am pro vaccination. I am vaccinated myself. What I dont feel great about is forcing ideas amongst people. It makes me uneasy, and clearly a lot of other people too, that people are losing their jobs because they are forced to put something in their body. Especially when this vaccine has been put into question. 

Its not like pfiezer and fdc, cdc, have never ****** anything up before.

Having the vaccine you can still transmit the virus and its effectiveness against other strains is suspect to say the least

[MOBomberFan]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:36 PM, Rich said:

If you think this topic is not worth debating then you are just as bad as people who won't get vaccinated.

Expand  

LOL. Except unvaxxed people are taking up valuable ICU beds and sucking up resources resulting in a backlog of surgeries, the impacts of which will be felt in this province for years to come. Could be avoided if people did what was right for all of us, not just what was right for them. So no, they are not just as bad.

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:39 PM, CodyT said:

Does none of what he says seem credible to you?

Expand  

He is not at all credible to me, no. I don't claim to understand the science at all, but it's much easier for me to believe thousands of doctors across the world are working to help us, not hurt us. He goes against that grain. If over 60% of vax recipients DID suffer from blood clots our hospitals would be overflowing with blood clot patients. Instead, our hospitals are filled with COVID patients, most of whom at this point are unvaxxed. That's all I need to see at this point. The guy is a quack and was removed from YouTube for being a quack. Misinformation is dangerous. My dad needs surgery, along with thousands of other Manitobans. He can't get it because ourhealthcare system is under water. And we're gonna act like it's okay for people to continue promoting anti-vax or vax-skepticism... nah, F that.

[blue_gold_84]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:51 PM, CodyT said:

Having the vaccine you can still transmit the virus and its effectiveness against other strains is suspect to say the least

Expand  

Nobody ever claimed the vaccine prevents transmission of the virus or that its efficacy remains consistent depending on variant strains. The vaccine provides a layer of protection and is designed to help reduce the severity of symptoms caused by the virus.

[CodyT]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:56 PM, MOBomberFan said:

LOL. Except unvaxxed people are taking up valuable ICU beds and sucking up resources resulting in a backlog of surgeries, the impacts of which will be felt in this province for years to come. Could be avoided if people did what was right for all of us, not just what was right for them. So no, they are not just as bad.

He is not at all credible to me, no. I don't claim to understand the science at all, but it's much easier for me to believe thousands of doctors across the world are working to help us, not hurt us. He goes against that grain. If over 60% of vax recipients DID suffer from blood clots our hospitals would be overflowing with blood clot patients. Instead, our hospitals are filled with COVID patients, most of whom at this point are unvaxxed. That's all I need to see at this point. The guy is a quack and was removed from YouTube for being a quack. Misinformation is dangerous. My dad needs surgery, along with thousands of other Manitobans. He can't get it because ourhealthcare system is under water. And we're gonna act like it's okay for people to continue promoting anti-vax or vax-skepticism... nah, F that.

Expand  

Well you cant deny that hes a practicing doctor who was, in his heart, looking out for the best interests of his patients. 

My grandpa died of cancer last year. I did not enjoy not being able to see him until he was in palliative.  I hear you.

To me it is concerning that people are so fired up, to the point of taking personal shots, and attacking other people for even trying to have a respectful conversation.

Edited December 15, 2021 by CodyT

[Tiny759]

  On 2021-12-08 at 5:00 PM, CodyT said:

Well you cant deny that hes a practicing doctor who was, in his heart, looking out for the best interests of his patients. 

My Dad died of cancer last year. I did not enjoy not being able to see him until he was in palliative.  I hear you.

To me it is concerning that people are so fired up, to the point of taking personal shots, and attacking other people for even trying to have a respectful conversation.

Expand  

Everybody is smarter than their neighbour. Including myself 

[Rich]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:56 PM, MOBomberFan said:

LOL. Except unvaxxed people are taking up valuable ICU beds and sucking up resources resulting in a backlog of surgeries, the impacts of which will be felt in this province for years to come. Could be avoided if people did what was right for all of us, not just what was right for them. So no, they are not just as bad.

 

Expand  

If wishes and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

This is my whole point that there ARE people out there who are not getting vaccinated.  So how do you expect to get them out there to get vaccinated if the topic is not worth being discussed.

If we all just want to call them names and tell them why they are horrible people, nothing will change.

So do you care about getting people vaccinated or do you care about being righteous and telling people how horrible they are.

[CodyT]

  On 2021-12-08 at 4:57 PM, blue_gold_84 said:

Nobody ever claimed the vaccine prevents transmission of the virus or that its efficacy remains consistent depending on variant strains. The vaccine provides a layer of protection and is designed to help reduce the severity of symptoms caused by the virus.

Expand  

Sure, I understand that. The effectiveness comes into question about 4 months in. Were having trouble getting people vaccinated now, wait until you need to get 5 or 6 jabs a year. I was referring to him saying that just the unvaccinated transmis the disease.

  On 2021-12-08 at 5:02 PM, Rich said:

If wishes and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

My whole point is there ARE people out there who are not getting vaccinated.  So how do you expect to get them out there to get vaccinated if the topic is not worth being discussed.

If we all just want to call them names and tell them why they are horrible people, nothing will change.

So do you care about getting people vaccinated or do you care about being righteous and telling people how horrible they are.

Expand  

The ironic thing is, I dont think anyone here discussing this isnt vaccinated. At this point were just having a conversation lol 

[Super Duper Negatron]

  On 2021-12-08 at 5:02 PM, Rich said:

If wishes and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

This is my whole point that there ARE people out there who are not getting vaccinated.  So how do you expect to get them out there to get vaccinated if the topic is not worth being discussed.

If we all just want to call them names and tell them why they are horrible people, nothing will change.

So do you care about getting people vaccinated or do you call about being righteous and telling people how horrible they are.

Expand  

I don't care about being right. I care about ending the pandemic. But I also care about my time, and no matter how patient you are, you are never going to convince someone who thinks they are going to be sterile or turn into a 5G router to get the vaccine.

[blue_gold_84]

  On 2021-12-08 at 5:07 PM, CodyT said:

Sure, I understand that. The effectiveness comes into question about 4 months in. Were having trouble getting people vaccinated now, wait until you need to get 5 or 6 jabs a year. I was referring to him saying that just the unvaccinated transmis the disease.

Expand  

The unvaccinated transmit the virus at a higher rate.

If a few more boosters is what it'll take to get the world to a place where this particular strain of coronavirus becomes endemic on similar terms to the common cold, so be it. Being a member of functioning society requires being responsible and putting others ahead of oneself for the benefit of everyone. It's not like going to get a vaccine is some arduous undertaking, anyway.

[CodyT]

  On 2021-12-08 at 5:09 PM, Super Duper Negatron said:

I don't care about being right. I care about ending the pandemic. But I also care about my time, and no matter how patient you are, you are never going to convince someone who thinks they are going to be sterile or turn into a 5G router to get the vaccine.

Expand  

Who thinks that??? I think a lot of "anti" vaxxers concerns are that their hasnt been a health of a lot of time producing this thing. Correct me if im wrong but dont most vaccines take 3 + years to be rolled out properly?

[MOBomberFan]

  On 2021-12-08 at 5:02 PM, Rich said:

This is my whole point that there ARE people out there who are not getting vaccinated.  So how do you expect to get them out there to get vaccinated if the topic is not worth being discussed.

Expand  

Honest answer is I don't expect them to get vaccinated at this point. There is no vaccine hesitancy any more, there is only anti-vaxx, We appeal to their decency, their common sense, they call us sheeple. We show them the science accepted by the CDC, the WHO, any credible organization, and they show us discredited videos of doctors telling lies on right wing social media. The two sides are not equal. There are two camps: Camp 1: vaccinated people and people with legitimate health reasons that prevent them from getting vaxxed, Camp 2: anti-vaxxers

I don't care how you feel about the vaccine, so long as you get vaccinated. If you are anti-vax you are wrong and your message is dangerous.

[blue_gold_84]

  On 2021-12-08 at 5:12 PM, CodyT said:

Who thinks that??? I think a lot of "anti" vaxxers concerns are that their hasnt been a health of a lot of time producing this thing. Correct me if im wrong but dont most vaccines take 3 + years to be rolled out properly?

Expand  

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-did-we-develop-a-covid-19-vaccine-so-quickly

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1

There's pretty much all you need to know on how the world was able to fast track this vaccine. It's almost as if humans can accomplish greatness when we work together for a common goal.

[Super Duper Negatron]

  On 2021-12-08 at 5:12 PM, CodyT said:

Who thinks that??? I think a lot of "anti" vaxxers concerns are that their hasnt been a health of a lot of time producing this thing. Correct me if im wrong but dont most vaccines take 3 + years to be rolled out properly?

Expand  

This has been explained over and over again. Nothing about this vaccine was "rushed". Not only was the technology years in the making, but no steps in the process were skipped, they were just able to be accelerated due to an unprecedented level of funding and cooperation. These vaccines will go down as essentially the most widely tested and scrutinized in history.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Super Duper Negatron

[MOBomberFan]

Ever heard of the Manhattan Project? Put the world's smartest people in a room together and in enough time they will figure out how to split the atom. Get all the worlds best epidemiologists together in a room and they can tackle a novel virus. It's not that crazy to imagine a concentrated effort involving the entire world's scientific community can have some amazing breakthroughs in less time than seems possible to people who aren't epidemiologists

[Tracker]

Do not assume that because someone has MD after their name, they actually have smarts. Remember that at Jonesville, there were two doctors who fed cyanide to people, including their own children, there is a pediatrician in Texas who believes in demon seed sperm causing gayness, and several anti-vaxxer medical doctors held a pro-Ivermectin forum at (appropriately) an equestrian event- and promptly became infected. Their distorted thinking, if you can call it that, is beyond me, and I am used to talking to people with issues (present company exempted).