2022 Off Season - Back 2 Back Champs Edition

[Geebrr]

25 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They were first in the league until Nichols got hurt in 2019.... 

That's a fact.

Also only Calgary had won more games since 2016

[TBURGESS]

38 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They were first in the league until Nichols got hurt in 2019.... 

and they still ended up 3rd in the West, 4th in the league which is (read it very slowly) MIDDLE OF THE LEAGUE!

[wbbfan]

15 hours ago, Noeller said:

False. The Toronto game we lost in Toronto we missed all (nearly all?) FGs which would have made the difference. I contend we win that game with half decent kicking. 

Qft. 

54 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They were first in the league until Nichols got hurt in 2019.... 

I don't think any one can argue that the late year team wasn't alot better than the early year team. Long passes and big returns were added late but ba in at s and the adjustments to the d front alone were huuuge. 

[17to85]

25 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

and they still ended up 3rd in the West, 4th in the league which is (read it very slowly) MIDDLE OF THE LEAGUE!

Ok but what I quoted was you saying the dominance started when collaros took over... just pointing out that Nichols too had the team positioned in first place at the time of his injury.  

At least try and keep your arguments straight. 

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Ok but what I quoted was you saying the dominance started when collaros took over... just pointing out that Nichols too had the team positioned in first place at the time of his injury.  

At least try and keep your arguments straight. 

I say that because that's the truth and my argument has been consistent despite folks trying to move the goal posts.

We lost to Hamilton, then Toronto, then squeaked by Calgary in Nichols last 3 full games. I don't call that dominance, but you and others do. If you want to see what actual dominance looks like, watch last years games. Besides, being good in the first third of the year doesn't define the whole year. In other words, the full season is a better look at the team than any other point in the season.

[TrueBlue4ever]

Reading this debate like:

Anyway, to get back on track, 20 days left until free agency. As far as I can tell from the roster on blue bombers.com and the free agent list on cfl.ca, here is where we are at:

Bold = confirmed signed

Plain = pending free agent

Italics = on roster, presumably signed but contract status not reported (any help to clarify would be appreciated)

Underlined = released

 

QB - D. Brown, Collaros, McGuire

RB - Augustine, Borsa, Harris, M. Miller, Oliveira

WR - Adams, Bailey, Demski, Grant, Jackson, Lawler, McKnight, O’Leary-Orange, Wolitarsky 

OL - Bryant, Burks, Couture, Desjarlais, Eli, Gray, Hardrick, Kolankowski, Neufeld, Richmond

DL - Antigua, Jeffcoat, Jefferson, Kongbo, Richardson, E. Rose, Sayles, Thomas, Walker, Wicker, Wilcots II

LB - Bighill, Briggs, K. Brown, Cadwaller, Gauthier, Hansen, Lowes, Maruo, Wilson

DB - Alexander, Alford, Darby, Ni. Hallett, No. Hallett, Hampton, Houston, Johnson, Jones, Kramdi, Matson, J. Miller, Nichols, W. Rose, Taylor, Thompson

K - Castillo, Crapigna, Liegghio, Mourtada

LS - Benson

 

Lots of big names still out there. Based on the cfl.ca page, 10 signings off of the free agent list and 30 pending free agents. However, only Saskatchewan with 15 signings has re-signed more than us so far. Everyone way behind. 

Apologies in advance for any misspellings, wrongly ID’d people, or players out of position, was going off the rostered lists. Proofreading and corrections appreciated. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by TrueBlue4ever

[17to85]

8 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I say that because that's the truth and my argument has been consistent despite folks trying to move the goal posts.

We lost to Hamilton, then Toronto, then squeaked by Calgary in Nichols last 3 full games. I don't call that dominance, but you and others do. If you want to see what actual dominance looks like, watch last years games. Besides, being good in the first third of the year doesn't define the whole year. In other words, the full season is a better look at the team than any other point in the season.

But you use wins and losses to gauge middle of the roadless, surely wins are enough to go the the other way. Not like every collaros win was a blowout.  We had some tight ones in there, including a loss to Toronto and squeaking by calgary...

Bottom line is you are short selling the 2019 season and overstating the difference collaros made... you know what all of it shows? You want a good team you need a veteran qb.

[Noeller]

Just posting for discussion, but Dunk and Hodge discussing Collaros negs on their podcast and Dunk believes the salary cap is going up a bit........

 

[Jpan85]

22 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Reading this debate like:

Anyway, to get back on track, 20 days left until free agency. As far as I can tell from the roster on blue bombers.com and the free agent list on cfl.ca, here is where we are at:

Bold = confirmed signed

Plain = pending free agent

Italics = on roster, presumably signed but contract status not reported (any help to clarify would be appreciated)

Underlined = released

 

QB - D. Brown, Collaros, McGuire

RB - Augustine, Borsa, Harris, M. Miller, Oliveira

WR - Adams, Bailey, Demski, Grant, Jackson, Lawler, McKnight, O’Leary-Orange, Wolitarsky 

OL - Bryant, Burks, Couture, Desjarlais, Eli, Gray, Hardrick, Kolankowski, Neufeld, Richmond

DL - Antigua, Jeffcoat, Jefferson, Kongbo, Richardson, E. Rose, Sayles, Thomas, Walker, Wicker, Wilcots II

LB - Bighill, Briggs, K. Brown, Cadwaller, Gauthier, Hansen, Lowes, Maruo, Wilson

DB - Alexander, Alford, Darby, Ni. Hallett, No. Hallett, Hampton, Houston, Johnson, Jones, Kramdi, Matson, J. Miller, Nichols, W. Rose, Taylor, Thompson

K - Castillo, Crapigna, Liegghio, Mourtada

LS - Benson

 

Lots of big names still out there. Based on the cfl.ca page, 10 signings off of the free agent list and 30 pending free agents. However, only Saskatchewan with 15 signings has re-signed more than us so far. Everyone way behind. 

Apologies in advance for any misspellings, wrongly ID’d people, or players out of position, was going off the rostered lists. Proofreading and corrections appreciated. 

Bolded the ones that are signed for next year that you had in Italics Nichols is but if he gets a NFL shot they would release him.

[TrueBlue4ever]

14 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

Bolded the ones that are signed for next year that you had in Italics Nichols is but if he gets a NFL shot they would release him.

Thanks Jpan. Figured a bunch of the italicized guys were in fact signed like Dru Brown, my sources only had him as “on the active roster” whereas others were listed as “signed”, but I appreciate the clarifications. And like Nichols, if any other player (say Lawler) left for an NFL deal I would update to “released”. I will edit my original list to reflect your corrections.

Certainly a lot of contracts out there to be accepted or turned down. We seem to be targeting the lines and the Canadians first. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by TrueBlue4ever

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Ok but what I quoted was you saying the dominance started when collaros took over... just pointing out that Nichols too had the team positioned in first place at the time of his injury.  

At least try and keep your arguments straight. 

And Bishop was 12 - 1 or whatever that one season he was so while QB is greatly important it doesn't completely translate in why a team is up and above compared to middle of the road.    

Look how terrible Collaros was in Saskatchewan playing behind a crap o-line and a crap system.   

Far more intangibles involved then simply a QB makes or breaks how good the O runs. 

Collaros was a cherry on the top, but also factor in some of the guys were new to our system and in 2021 after having time to develop they blossomed and also raised the bar on how good our O works (see: Bailey/Lawler)  

Nichols also was completely shot even in 2018 so it's a bit unfair to use him as a level to compare with.   2018/2019 Nichols is so far down in the ability to perform that guys like Masoli and Harris are light years ahead of being able to play QB.    

Long story short..... Zach is awesome....  if he leaves for whatever reason.... if we were to plug in a Harris/Masoli/Arbuckle/MBT to replace him... our O still would be formidable and those QB's would have the tools to also play at an optimal level.   

[JCon]

48 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Just posting for discussion, but Dunk and Hodge discussing Collaros negs on their podcast and Dunk believes the salary cap is going up a bit........

Based on what? There isn't a CBA in place and the billionaire owners are complaining about revenue. TSN has an agreement in place, so no more money there. 

[Jesse]

49 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Just posting for discussion, but Dunk and Hodge discussing Collaros negs on their podcast and Dunk believes the salary cap is going up a bit........

 

But wasn't the cap 5.25 in 2019?

600k is an outrageous number if the cap is 5M.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Just posting for discussion, but Dunk and Hodge discussing Collaros negs on their podcast and Dunk believes the salary cap is going up a bit........

 

Trying to pass opinions off as facts.

[TBURGESS]

I say the whole season needs to be taken into account when you describe a dominant team. Others think being in first at the end of the first third of a season is enough to say we were dominant in '19. Yah but, we woulda been dominant if Nichols didn't get injured is actually a definition of why we weren't dominant.  Would anyone describe any team not named the Blue Bombers as dominant if they came in 4th in the league? Of course not.

Give Collaros the respect he deserves. Streveler and Nichols couldn't beat Hamilton in '19 even when we took Masoli out of the game. Collaros got the GC win against Hamilton and it wasn't really close. Without Collaros, we don't win the cup in '19 and we don't dominate in '21. If we kept Nichols, the only way we even make the playoffs is on the backs of the defense in '21 because we'd end up having to play a rookie QB for most of the season or trading for Harris(?).

[blue_gold_84]

Jee-zus, the mental gymnastics are hilarious.

[Bigblue204]

29 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I say the whole season needs to be taken into account when you describe a dominant team. Others think being in first at the end of the first third of a season is enough to say we were dominant in '19. Yah but, we woulda been dominant if Nichols didn't get injured is actually a definition of why we weren't dominant.  Would anyone describe any team not named the Blue Bombers as dominant if they came in 4th in the league? Of course not.

Give Collaros the respect he deserves. Streveler and Nichols couldn't beat Hamilton in '19 even when we took Masoli out of the game. Collaros got the GC win against Hamilton and it wasn't really close. Without Collaros, we don't win the cup in '19 and we don't dominate in '21. If we kept Nichols, the only way we even make the playoffs is on the backs of the defense in '21 because we'd end up having to play a rookie QB for most of the season or trading for Harris(?).

If you're really going to get into details, you'd HAVE to take injuries into consideration. 2019 they were best in the league UNTIL injuries struck. Then they fell off until the end of the year when Collaros took over and the D transformed into one of the greatest of all time.

And if you look back at 2019 at the scores in games we won while Nichols was playing, all of them save for 1, have at least a 7 point lead (CGY game is the exception as the BB won by 2 points) and the games they lost are within one possession. Even the hamilton game was only lost by 8 points. 

While Nichols was playing they were a dominate team. While Collaros was playing, they were a dominate team. There was really only a 4 game stretch where they went 1-3 where they weren't dominate and that was heavily influenced by injuries.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

I say the whole season needs to be taken into account when you describe a dominant team. Others think being in first at the end of the first third of a season is enough to say we were dominant in '19. Yah but, we woulda been dominant if Nichols didn't get injured is actually a definition of why we weren't dominant.  Would anyone describe any team not named the Blue Bombers as dominant if they came in 4th in the league? Of course not.

Give Collaros the respect he deserves. Streveler and Nichols couldn't beat Hamilton in '19 even when we took Masoli out of the game. Collaros got the GC win against Hamilton and it wasn't really close. Without Collaros, we don't win the cup in '19 and we don't dominate in '21. If we kept Nichols, the only way we even make the playoffs is on the backs of the defense in '21 because we'd end up having to play a rookie QB for most of the season or trading for Harris(?).

Hey, T Burg. Who damn well cares? That was 2 years ago. This team has won B2B Grey Cups. There's no asterisk after that win in 2019. No one cares what the Bomber record was in 2019.

In 1970, the Als played the Stampeders in the Grey Cup. The Als beat the Stamps that day. What was their record that season? Do you know? Do you care? Does anyone care?? No. Nobody cares if the Als were an elite or MOR team. Is there an asterisk beside the Als winning the Grey Cup? All they know is they were league champs that year. That's all that matters. 

In 1989, the Riders beat the Tiger Cats in the Grey Cup. Was Saskatchewan an elite team? Do you know? Do you care? Does anybody care? Is there an asterisk beside the Riders win? All fans care about is they were Grey Cup champs.

What about 2017? Were the Argos an elite team? Does anybody care? All fans know is that they were Grey Cup champions that season.  Were the Argos an elite team? Is there an asterisk beside the Argos as champs? No one will care. No one cares now. All fans will care about is the Argos were Grey Cup champs. 

The only one who seems to care about this is you. None of the rest of us do. We just care about the fact the Bombers were champs in 2019. MOR team or not. The absolute & total physical beatdown of the Ti Cats in that championship game showed that they were deserving winners. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[Goalie]

Man... last time I saw a dude trolling this much was back in summer at my lake or... it's gotta be a gimmick cuz no way can anyone be that ridiculous on purpose. Gimmick change required @TBURGESS

[BBlink]

We were pretty dominant this year. Not sure about 2019. We were a great team but I didn't go into every game with full confidence that eventually we would crush them in the 2nd half like this year. But whatever, I don't think "dominant" has a strict definition.

2019 we did it differently on offense. It was our run game that defined us. Of course, when we had zero passing game (streveler) it was a lot more difficult to run the ball. That's why Nichols or a new on the scene Collaros was able to get us the cup.

2021 our offense transformed quite a bit where we are now relying more heavily on our passing game. We still run the ball well but 2019 we were un-cfl-like in how much we ran it.

Of course with our revamped passing game we needed a good passing QB. And we still need it IMO. I don't think we can go back to that run heavy offense with the personel we have. Plus I don't think Buck will want to.

[Super Duper Negatron]

 

[Geebrr]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! 

[Geebrr]

Monstrous signing.

He runs the D and was the best Defensive player in the league last year.

Best believe the Riders and others were going hard at him if he hit FA.

Him wearing Sask colours would make me puke

Edited January 20, 2022 by Geebrr

[bearpants]

7 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

Him wearing Sask colours would make me puke

He wants a 3-peat... not a playoff loss to the Bombers!

[Noeller]

Bighill's been showing a lot of love on social media for all the team's signings recently, so I figured he was leaning this way. He absolutely loves playing for Oshea, so you know he wanted to be here. And as others have said, he just spent a year building a custom home here. They wanna stay in the community for sure.