2022 Off Season - Back 2 Back Champs Edition

[johnzo]

The bottom line on fajardo is that he's gone something like 20-6 as a starter vs. the rest of the cfl.  That's an absurd win percentage, that's BLM territory.  No way anyone who wins that reliably can be a total bum.

Alas, this superman has a kryptonite -- the blue bombers.  He's just 2-5 vs us and has lost four straight to us.

He is a good qb who plays on a frankly dominant football team. 

But he is not a champion.

Because. We. Own. His. Ass.

Edited February 18, 2022 by johnzo

[wbbfan]

5 hours ago, johnzo said:

The bottom line on fajardo is that he's gone something like 20-6 as a starter vs. the rest of the cfl.  That's an absurd win percentage, that's BLM territory.  No way anyone who wins that reliably can be a total bum.

Alas, this superman has a kryptonite -- the blue bombers.  He's just 2-5 vs us and had lost four straight.

He is a good qb who plays on a frankly dominant football team. 

But he is not a champion.

Because. We. Own  His. Ass.

Tim Tebow. Qb record is the dumbest stat in all of sports. In baseball total wins doesn't get you a Cy young. It's the last factor in judging a pitcher. You have to judge qbs and players on their own merit. 

 

[bearpants]

17 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Ti-Cats have Schiltz.

Argos have Pipkin.

Ottawa has Caleb Evans.

Elks have Cornelius.

All better or equal to Prukop, with the last two having the upside of potentially transforming into starters.

So basically you're confirming that only Calgary and Montreal have reliable back up QBs

[johnzo]

5 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Tim Tebow. Qb record is the dumbest stat in all of sports. In baseball total wins doesn't get you a Cy young. It's the last factor in judging a pitcher. You have to judge qbs and players on their own merit. 

 

Other QB stats can be just as dumb: a 5000-yard passer like Kerwin Bell or Trevor Harris can put up elite stats and only rarely win. 

Everything being equal, I'd rather roll with a winning QB like Fajardo (or vintage Matt Nichols, another journeyman with an elite win-loss record) than a guy like Harris or Bell.

The other weird thing about Fajardo is that he's making some chicken salad out of a pretty crappy lineup.  The Fajardo-era Riders have had a strong DL and a good placekicker but not much else; their OL was a patchwork mess, their RB was old, their receivers are spotty, etc, etc.  how the hell is that team manufacturing wins?  There is some moxie to that guy, even if it's not enough moxie to beat the Bombers when it matters.

[bearpants]

5 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Other QB stats can be just as dumb: a 5000-yard passer like Kerwin Bell or Trevor Harris can put up elite stats and only rarely win. 

Everything being equal, I'd rather roll with a winning QB like Fajardo (or vintage Matt Nichols, another journeyman with an elite win-loss record) than a guy like Harris or Bell.

The other weird thing about Fajardo is that he's making some chicken salad out of a pretty crappy lineup.  The Fajardo-era Riders have had a strong DL and a good placekicker but not much else; their OL was a patchwork mess, their RB was old, their receivers are spotty, etc, etc.  how the hell is that team manufacturing wins?  There is some moxie to that guy, even if it's not enough moxie to beat the Bombers when it matters.

No doubt Fajardo is massively disrespected here... I don't think the guy is a superstar... doesn't throw well enough for that... but if you surround him with the right pieces... you can absolutely win a championship with him... unfortunately for Sask, they don't have the right pieces

[Noeller]

22 hours ago, JCon said:

Fist pick, fumble or failed 3rd down conversion and we turn on him like mayo in left in the sun, though, right? 

(found it)

 

[JCon]

Want to be a coach? Play for the Bombers.

 

[Mark F]

Who is doing ob Bomber broadcast this coming season? Thanks.

[Jpan85]

13 minutes ago, JCon said:

Want to be a coach? Play for the Bombers.

 

He was the QB coach in Green Bay before. 

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, Mark F said:

Who is doing ob Bomber broadcast this coming season? Thanks.

Nobody knows. You're welcome. 

[Fatty Liver]

19 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Who is doing ob Bomber broadcast this coming season? Thanks.

Rumour is Derek Taylor.  Prepare for the celebration.

https://3downnation.com/2022/02/17/derek-taylor-leaves-saskatchewan-roughriders-radio-play-by-play-job-with-620-ckrm/

Edited February 17, 2022 by Fatty Liver

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2022-02-16 at 2:35 PM, bearpants said:

Why does this name sound familiar? Has he been in camp before?

You're probably thinking of former Vikings qb Christian Ponder. 

2 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

He was the QB coach in Green Bay before. 

Wish we'd honour Clements. He put up some great numbers, won a lot of games for us in a Bomber uniform & won a Grey Cup for us in 1984. He was the CFL's MOP in 1987 as a Bomber & a CFL All Star in 1984 & 87. I don't think he's been back to Winnipeg since Crusty Cal pushed him out for Roy Dewalt in 1988. 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You're probably thinking of former Vikings qb Christian Ponder. 

Wish we'd honour Clements. He put up some great numbers, won a lot of games for us in a Bomber uniform & won a Grey Cup for us in 1984. He was the CFL's MOP in 1987 as a Bomber & a CFL All Star in 1984 & 87. I don't think he's been back to Winnipeg since Crusty Cal pushed him out for Roy Dewalt in 1988. 

 

He was put in the Blue Bomber Hall of Fame in 1992. And I have a memory of him and Hufnagel being honoured together at Canadinns one game with framed jerseys. I remember it because Clements said “thanks so much for the gift of a framed jersey, I guess now I can give back the one I stole from the locker room and hid in my bag when I left here”. 

[wbbfan]

5 hours ago, johnzo said:

Other QB stats can be just as dumb: a 5000-yard passer like Kerwin Bell or Trevor Harris can put up elite stats and only rarely win. 

Everything being equal, I'd rather roll with a winning QB like Fajardo (or vintage Matt Nichols, another journeyman with an elite win-loss record) than a guy like Harris or Bell.

The other weird thing about Fajardo is that he's making some chicken salad out of a pretty crappy lineup.  The Fajardo-era Riders have had a strong DL and a good placekicker but not much else; their OL was a patchwork mess, their RB was old, their receivers are spotty, etc, etc.  how the hell is that team manufacturing wins?  There is some moxie to that guy, even if it's not enough moxie to beat the Bombers when it matters.

Passing yards is also dumb but not as bad. A terrible qb can be carried entirely to wins. Passing yards is atleast some indicator or their own positional performance. 

 Similarly a wr can put up 1k or 1500 yards but have a piss poor ypc and drops etc. 

For qbs I like tds per game and yards per completion. 

[Brandon]

42 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Passing yards is also dumb but not as bad. A terrible qb can be carried entirely to wins. Passing yards is atleast some indicator or their own positional performance. 

 Similarly a wr can put up 1k or 1500 yards but have a piss poor ypc and drops etc. 

For qbs I like tds per game and yards per completion. 

TDS per game also can get skewed like last season when McGuire plunged in 16 TD's from the goal line.

[johnzo]

Clements was my first favorite Bomber.  I'll never forget the very cold october afternoon I spent at Winnipeg Stadium watching the Bombers practice, just so I could get his autograph after practice. Still have it in my papers, I've laminated it and it went with me to the 2011 Grey Cup.

5 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You're probably thinking of former Vikings qb Christian Ponder. 

Wish we'd honour Clements. He put up some great numbers, won a lot of games for us in a Bomber uniform & won a Grey Cup for us in 1984. He was the CFL's MOP in 1987 as a Bomber & a CFL All Star in 1984 & 87. I don't think he's been back to Winnipeg since Crusty Cal pushed him out for Roy Dewalt in 1988.

Because I am a giant nerd I subscribed to the Free Press archive last year and I re-read all the stories from Clements' arrival and departure. The story the Freep told was that Clements was a victim of the end of the Carling CFL sponsorship deal in 1987 -- overnight the CFL lost millions in free money.  Clements justifiably didn't want to take a pay cut and had lots of off-field opportunities -- dude has a law degree from Notre Dame, a pretty heavy education -- so he retired. 

DeWalt was very much a plan B and was on the scrap heap when the Bombers called him.

Edited February 18, 2022 by johnzo

[SpeedFlex27]

31 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Clements was my first favorite Bomber.  I'll never forget the very cold october afternoon I spent at Winnipeg Stadium watching the Bombers practice, just so I could get his autograph after practice. Still have it in my papers, I've laminated it and it went with me to the 2011 Grey Cup.

Because I am a giant nerd I subscribed to the Free Press archive last year and I re-read all the stories from Clements' arrival and departure. The story the Freep told was that Clements was a victim of the end of the Carling CFL sponsorship deal in 1987 -- overnight the CFL lost millions in free money.  Clements justifiably didn't want to take a pay cut and had lots of off-field opportunities -- dude has a law degree from Notre Dame, a pretty heavy education -- so he retired. 

DeWalt was very much a plan B and was on the scrap heap when the Bombers called him.

That 88 off season was the one where Joe Pop retired, Willard Reaves & Tom Clements were released. That was also the season that Cal put a Coke machine in the locker room & the players had to pay for it which set off a lot of veterans negatively. As well as cementing Cal's reputation of a cheapskate. 

[wbbfan]

9 hours ago, Brandon said:

TDS per game also can get skewed like last season when McGuire plunged in 16 TD's from the goal line.

You are correct, I should've been more clear. Passing tds per game.  Though all stats can be skewed. No one stat in any sport will give you a clear picture. 

 

[johnzo]

12 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That 88 off season was the one where Joe Pop retired, Willard Reaves & Tom Clements were released. That was also the season that Cal put a Coke machine in the locker room & the players had to pay for it which set off a lot of veterans negatively. As well as cementing Cal's reputation of a cheapskate. 

It blew my mind as a kid that the Bombers could shed all that top talent in 1988 and still win the Grey Cup, especially after the great 1987 team crapped the bed in the playoffs.

This would have been the era where Ty Jones and James West were having to buy their own socks at Sears, right?

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, johnzo said:

It blew my mind as a kid that the Bombers could shed all that top talent in 1988 and still win the Grey Cup, especially after the great 1987 team crapped the bed in the playoffs.

This would have been the era where Ty Jones and James West were having to buy their own socks at Sears, right?

I never heard that story.

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I never heard that story.

that's an old one...been told a bunch. Cal refused to spend any money on anything (complaints of having to "wear Mack Herron's jock strap" were common) and the players would have to go over to Polo Park and buy their own socks at Sears. Cal just wouldn't spend a penny on anything. The exact opposite of Wade, who has no problem making sure the players have everything they need...

[SpeedFlex27]

29 minutes ago, Noeller said:

that's an old one...been told a bunch. Cal refused to spend any money on anything (complaints of having to "wear Mack Herron's jock strap" were common) and the players would have to go over to Polo Park and buy their own socks at Sears. Cal just wouldn't spend a penny on anything. The exact opposite of Wade, who has no problem making sure the players have everything they need...

Yeah, we sure didn't run a professional organization back then like we do now. Cal cut everything & I remember how negative the feelings were about him back then. Poplawski retired because Ranger Insurance needed his full time attendance but releasing Reaves, Hufnagel & Clements made fans upset. Cal never saw a loonie he didn't like. Dewalt who replaced Clements played terribly & was eventually released. How we won the 1988 Grey Cup with Sean Salisbury & Lee Saltz at qb is beyond me.

[kelownabomberfan]

19 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That 88 off season was the one where Joe Pop retired, Willard Reaves & Tom Clements were released. That was also the season that Cal put a Coke machine in the locker room & the players had to pay for it which set off a lot of veterans negatively. As well as cementing Cal's reputation of a cheapskate. 

I remember hearing that Cal was charging players during practice $.25 a cup for Gatorade. And kept track of how many cups each player had each practice.  How did we win 3 cups with that kind of management lol? Different era I guess.

[Brandon]

13 hours ago, wbbfan said:

You are correct, I should've been more clear. Passing tds per game.  Though all stats can be skewed. No one stat in any sport will give you a clear picture. 

 

I kind of was implying that Zach would bring the team to the goal line and they would score and this wouldnt' be reflected in his own TD stats.    I'm guessing it would be ideal to have a stat for QB's that showed how many TD drives they had.  

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I remember hearing that Cal was charging players during practice $.25 a cup for Gatorade. And kept track of how many cups each player had each practice.  How did we win 3 cups with that kind of management lol? Different era I guess.

Cal was miserly, but remember that the Montreal franchise (the Concorde) folded, Ottawa was hemorrhaging money, the Roughriders were on the verge of bankruptcy and holding telethons, and the CFL was close to closing up shop at the end of 1987 and needed its own TV network because no broadcaster was willing to pick up the games. And the league pilfered the Bomber coffers to keep the other teams alive. Murphy was cheap as much out of necessity as by choice given the debt load the team carried. Which is why he lobbied hard for the Grey Cup to come to Winnipeg and offered to buy the game from the league for a guaranteed sum and keep the profits for itself, which ended up wiping out the $1 million plus debt the club had accumulated. (The league quickly got wise and forced all teams to “buy” the game but raised their purchase fee so that they still made more money than the host most every time). Ironically, for all his penny-pinching, in his last year in 1996 it was revealed shortly after his firing that the Bombers had exceeded the salary cap and were fined.