2022 Off Season - Back 2 Back Champs Edition

[Bigblue204]

10 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The NFL does. They want a developmental league, yes. 

They have one. The NCAA

[GCn20]

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The NFL does. They want a developmental league, yes. 

The NFL owners have unequivocally stated that they don't see a need for a developmental league. The NFLPA has unequivocally stated that they will NOT support the transfer of players between the NFL and any other league. Not sure what you are basing your opinion on? Owners and NFLPA have already weighed in on this, and it's a big fat NO.

[bustamente]

 

[JCon]

56 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The NFL owners have unequivocally stated that they don't see a need for a developmental league. The NFLPA has unequivocally stated that they will NOT support the transfer of players between the NFL and any other league. Not sure what you are basing your opinion on? Owners and NFLPA have already weighed in on this, and it's a big fat NO.

They literally have partnered with the XFL to help develop the game. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33341262/xfl-petri-dish-football-innovation-prospect-development-part-partnership-agreement-nfl

The NFL-XFL agreement will give the NFL a "petri dish" to experiment with proposed rules, test new equipment and develop prospective officials and coaches, XFL president Russ Brandon told ESPN.

A Buffalo Bills executive for two decades, Brandon said NFL officials routinely discussed the need for such an outlet after NFL Europe shuttered in 2007.

[GCn20]

10 minutes ago, JCon said:

They literally have partnered with the XFL to help develop the game. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33341262/xfl-petri-dish-football-innovation-prospect-development-part-partnership-agreement-nfl

The NFL-XFL agreement will give the NFL a "petri dish" to experiment with proposed rules, test new equipment and develop prospective officials and coaches, XFL president Russ Brandon told ESPN.

A Buffalo Bills executive for two decades, Brandon said NFL officials routinely discussed the need for such an outlet after NFL Europe shuttered in 2007.

That's great, but that is a far cry from them being a player developmental league and providing financial support of any kind. I think you guys are confused at to what the conversation was about originally. I was responding to the idea that the NFL would float money to these leagues to keep them alive so that they have a player developmental type league. I have no doubt that the NFL would use any league willing to be their guinea pigs on stuff like rule changes, football leather types etc. but that is not even remotely the same thing as being a fully funded developmental league. The XFL gets some credibility by having the NFL endorse it's existance but that's as much as they will gain from this. The road to profitablity and sustainability is solely on XFL/USFL ownership to generate enough revenue to exist, and that is something that historically has never happened for a spring league. Through most of the US, fishing season, golfing, baseball, and other outdoor activities begin right at the time this league begins. It's a hurdle no spring league has ever come close to clearing and there is absolutely zero reason to believe The Rock or anyone else will make it happen now.

Edited February 25, 2022 by GCn20

[JCon]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

That's great, but that is a far cry from them being a player developmental league and providing financial support of any kind. I think you guys are confused at to what the conversation was about originally.

I think you're just moving the goal posts. The NFL is always looking for partners who they can work with. They just don't want to put their own money up. 

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, JCon said:

I think you're just moving the goal posts. The NFL is always looking for partners who they can work with. They just don't want to put their own money up. 

I'm not moving the goal posts one inch. The discussion was would the NFL keep any of these leagues alive so that they could have a developmental league. I stated that NFL ownership has already said no chance they would fund a league, and NFLPA has stated no chance they would allow the transfer of players to such a league. Show me where I moved the goal post? You came into the conversation talking about XFL testing rules and turf and being buddy buddy with the NFL....that was YOUR effort to move the goal posts because that wasn't the discussion at all. Even the XFL has stated they will never be a player developmental league.

Edited February 25, 2022 by GCn20

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I'm not moving the goal posts one inch. The discussion was would the NFL keep any of these leagues alive so that they could have a developmental league. I stated that NFL ownership has already said no chance they would fund a league, and NFLPA has stated no chance they would allow the transfer of players to such a league. Show me where I moved the goal post? You came into the conversation talking about XFL testing rules and turf and being buddy buddy with the NFL....that was YOUR effort to move the goal posts because that wasn't the discussion at all. Even the XFL has stated they will never be a player developmental league.

This was the original content that you jumped on. 

On 2022-02-23 at 11:23 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

Not if the NFL doesn't want them to. The NFL has been talking about a domestic developmental league in the States since NFL Europe. 

 

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

This was the original content that you jumped on. 

 

I gotta side with GCn20 on this one…

the quote you posted kind of proves what he’s telling you…

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

 

A Buffalo Bills executive for two decades, Brandon said NFL officials routinely discussed the need for such an outlet after NFL Europe shuttered in 2007.

That is exactly what I said... Someone needs to listen better rather than saying, "Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope." 

[JCon]

 

4 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I gotta side with GCn20 on this one…

the quote you posted kind of proves what he’s telling you…

And, the XFL has a partnership to do just that with the NFL. 

If the NFL had no interest in a development league, they wouldn't partner with anyone for development. And, they just did. 

[Jesse]

17 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That is exactly what I said... Someone needs to listen better rather than saying, "Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope." 

15 years without a single attempt to do anything about it speaks volumes to me...

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

15 years without a single attempt to do anything about it speaks volumes to me...

The NFL doesn't want to spend hundreds of millions to set up a developmental league. The XFL wants to spend the money so the NFL made a partnership with them. In return, the XFL also gets a leg up on the USFL. 

[17to85]

Honestly the whole situation to me sounds like the XFL being clingy trying to attach themselves to the NFL, and the NFL goes "yeah sure whatever"

[Noeller]

None of it concerns me in the least. There's tons of football players out there looking for work. Are we going to see a diluting of the US talent? Maybe a little....enough to make people watch CFL less? Nah. As I've said a million times, it could be All Canadian teams, with Wpg/SK/Edm/Cgy playing each other all season, and I'd be more than happy. The CFL will be fine....

[GCn20]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That is exactly what I said... Someone needs to listen better rather than saying, "Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope." 

NFL officials are not NFL owners and partnering on developing officials and testing rules is a FAR cry from a player development league. Not even in the same stratosphere.

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The NFL doesn't want to spend hundreds of millions to set up a developmental league. The XFL wants to spend the money so the NFL made a partnership with them. In return, the XFL also gets a leg up on the USFL. 

They don't have a developmental partnership with the XFL as far as players go. You made the comparison to NFL Europe which was an NFL funded player development league that was actually even profitable, and the NFL still shut it down because they felt it was a waste of time. The XFL is NOT a developmental league for the NFL no matter how much they claim to be. They have an agreement in place for the XFL to be a testing ground for them and a breeding ground for coaches. Nothing more. That isn't worth a wooden nickel to the NFL.

Edited February 25, 2022 by GCn20

[Goalie]

It's still minor leagues.  Like perception with these spring leagues are lesser quality than pro game. Not pros. It's the equivalent to the ahl.. if xfl has teams in maybe non traditional markets.. perhaps it thrives? But the ppl in the NFL market won't care really. 

Cuz those markets all have other PRO sports. 

Put teams in markets that don't got pro sports (Def not baseball markets also). Maybe it works for a bit. 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Goalie

[GCn20]

22 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly the whole situation to me sounds like the XFL being clingy trying to attach themselves to the NFL, and the NFL goes "yeah sure whatever"

That is exactly what it is. The NFL will let them toss around their illusions of a relationship in exchange for them testing out some rules and giving more coaches a place to get better. No cash, no support otherwise.

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The NFL doesn't want to spend hundreds of millions to set up a developmental league. The XFL wants to spend the money so the NFL made a partnership with them. In return, the XFL also gets a leg up on the USFL. 

There is no player sharing, and no money changing hands. The only thing this deal benefits is the NFL and that is why they are allowing it. If the XFL comes hat in hand to the NFL they will have the door slammed in their face.

3 minutes ago, Goalie said:

It's still minor leagues.  Like perception with these spring leagues are lesser quality than pro game. Not pros. It's the equivalent to the ahl.. if xfl has teams in maybe non traditional markets.. perhaps it thrives? But the ppl in the NFL market won't really. 

Wrong time of year, and too bad of a history for failure for US sports fans to even give these leagues a fighting chance. 

[GCn20]

3 hours ago, JCon said:

 

And, the XFL has a partnership to do just that with the NFL. 

If the NFL had no interest in a development league, they wouldn't partner with anyone for development. And, they just did. 

No they didn't. They partnered on innovations but definitely not as a developmental league. The XFL would love everyone to believe that they are, and are marketing it as such, but developing what exactly that is of value to the NFL? Nothing.  As a testing ground....sure. Fact remains that no money makes for an ultra-weak partnership. The CFL is as much a player development league for the NFL as the XFL...probably more so even.

Football is not a game that even allows a player to ripen on the vine. Players are coming out of college 24-25 years old. They are as ripe as they are going to get. A developmental league for players to do what exactly, come into the league past their prime? This isn't hockey where players are drafted at 18 and need time to grow into their adult bodies. The NCAA churns out more pro ready players than the NFL can handle already. For the odd one that slips through the cracks the CFL was more than enough to find the diamond in the rough. The NFL has zero interest in a player development league because the NFL does not need a player development league. Simple as that. Even Jerry Jones has said so on behalf of the NFL owners who would have to pay for it, but hey...you guys know more than him because some guy in Buffalo wants to see better NFL officiating.

Edited February 25, 2022 by GCn20

[Bigblue204]

I think people are talking about 2 different "developmental" types. XFL has an agreement to be developing/testing rules, equipment etc. They are NOT a league that will developing PLAYERS specifically for the NFL. Players will develop in the xfl and likely have a good shot of getting to the NFL in the same way players develop in the CFL. 

[Bubba Zanetti]

The LFL is the only other football league i'd be interested in developing 

[do or die]

11 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

The LFL is the only other football league i'd be interested in developing 

Seems pretty well developed, at present......

[wbbfan]

 

This is a really interesting video about QB prospects. It's about NFL qbs, but a lot of what he's talking about directly relates to how it goes up here. And especially seems to line up with how the bombers pick prospect qbs. The TLDR of his process is that he considers Raw tools more important that mechanics, coachability over polish, and the right destination are whats important. 

 Basically the entire time we've had the mafia here our developmental QBs have all been extremely high potential under developed guys. Most not getting more than 1 or maybe 2 decent years at college. A lot of guys who transfer from a big program to a small one and find some success. Instead of the guys who throw for 10,000 yards, start for 4 years, and throw 90-100 tds we get guys who throw for maybe 4 or 5k with 1 big production year. 

No surprise that the FIFO mafia look for guys they can develop. Its hard to change a guy who has been a star qb for 6-8 years between HS and college. And by nature, cfl teams need to be able to mold players to fit our league. 

And having a guy whose skill set fits what we do is instrumental. We all saw Streveler languish in a system that never used his skill sets well. We never utilized his athleticism to set up other facets of our offense. Stuff you see the ravens do, like running qb power off a play action counter, or fake the draw, or use a jet motion option play etc. 

I think that speaks a lot to why Collaros was able to succeed and turn things around soo quickly here. It'll be interesting to see how Dakota develops here, and what kind of 4th guy we bring in for camp. 

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2022-02-25 at 7:07 AM, Bigblue204 said:

They have one. The NCAA

Well then, why does the NHL need the AHL? The junior leagues are developmental, right? Is it maybe because the game at the NHL level is faster with superior players than junior? That kids at 18-21 can't handle the pro game just like kids coming into the NFL?  Just askin' for a friend.

Edited February 26, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[Jesse]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Well then, why does the NHL need the AHL? The junior leagues are developmental, right? Is it maybe because the game at the NHL level is faster with superior players than junior? That kids at 18-21 can't handle the pro game just like kids coming into the NFL?  Just askin' for a friend.

The NCAA has them at least that long, and often as long as 23/24.